Have we just witnessed the quickest rebuild in AFL history?

[bumsonseats]

In your considered opinion are they saddie waddies?

I deal in fact rather than assumption or opinion.......so i present a well informed view.
As a general observation - they are more concerned about what others are doing moreso than what they themselves are doing.

It is clear that they are rather sad, because that shiny cup they had both hands on last year seems so far away now.
That feeling of self-entitlement is not quite working out for them and its such a shame.

 

[bumsonseats]

We benefitted from Free Agency by losing Buddy which lead to us getting Mitchell.

F*** me your butterfly effect logic is making me a bit ill

As an educated finance guy, I recommend if his IQ reaches 20 he should sell

 

[hk89]

Not really.

Its pretty obvious when it says "FREE AGENT" at the end.

Whether he was delisted or not, he is still a benefit of free agency.

I doubt free agency had any impact on where Henderson ended up. Even before free agency made the pre-season draft nearly irrelevant, the player movement from the pre-season draft was very low volume. Often not every club even used their first pick. A delisted player like Henderson would not have been in high demand, and pre-FA he'd had very likely have still got to Hawthorn.

 

[DangerSloane]

As an educated finance guy, I recommend if his IQ reaches 20 he should sell

Educated finance guy hey?
What qualifications you got? Wanna compare?

You know seeing as you want to be a smart mouth.

 

[threesixpio]

Educated finance guy hey?
What qualifications you got? Wanna compare?

You know seeing as you want to be a smart mouth.

It’s not how big your qualification is - it’s what you do with it

 

[DangerSloane]

We traded for them (and paid handsomely in the trades... you know, how we got bent over and blew our future).... years later.... after moving on Mitchell and Lewis also. So yeah talking about it like it's been some financial windfall is a bit out there.

It's a tenuous grasp.

In the end it comes down to who's come in and who's gone out as FAs. Few lesser lights either way and then Chip v Bud.

But yeah, we won flags due to FA...we are coming back due to FA.

Yes you traded for them
There is this thing called a salary cap.

To explain it, teams can only pay a certain amount of money to their players as a whole.
So again, if Buddy had been at Hawthorn still on $1m per year, do you think you could have afforded to put big contracts in front of those two players?

Its a simple question.

 

[DangerSloane]

It’s not how big your qualification is - it’s what you do with it

What are youse doing with it bahaha

 

[DangerSloane]

I doubt free agency had any impact on where Henderson ended up. Even before free agency made the pre-season draft nearly irrelevant, the player movement from the pre-season draft was very low volume. Often not every club even used their first pick. A delisted player like Henderson would not have been in high demand, and pre-FA he'd had very likely have still got to Hawthorn.

All it would've taken is one other clubs interest though and he would've been there.
This is in the pre-season draft world.

 

[threesixpio]

What are youse doing with it bahaha

Law stuff

 

[Guardian Hawk]

In:
Frawley
Henderson
2 draft picks

Out:
Franklin who you would've had to pay $1m a year to keep and therefore probably not be able to get a least one of JOM or TM

Yeah you've benefitted.

I like how you insist on including Henderson 'because he is best 22' despite being a delisted free agent but also insist we exclude all departing Hawthorn free agents, regardless of whether they were delisted, best 22 or not..

Clinton Young, for example, played 20 games, including all finals, the year Collingwood took him. He had played 116 games, including a premiership for Hawthorn. His last game for Hawthorn was a Grand Final - he was most definitely best 22 and not about to be delisted. He played 3 more seasons at Collingwood but picked up injuries.

Matthew Suckling had barely missed a game for 4 years when he left Hawthorn. His last match was a premiership win, his 3rd in a row. If that is not a valued best 22 player, what is?

Campbell Brown (does he count?) was a premiership winning, All Australian, heart and soul of the club player. Best 22 is underselling his importance.

Others, like Xavier Ellis, played all games he was fit for (and remained at West Coast for 4 more seasons).

There is no doubt Hawthorn have a net loss from free agency. Even counting Henderson is disingenuous as free agency has not made a significant difference to picking up delisted players. Hawthorn could have just used their last pick in the draft and got him anyway - he was unwanted. Besides, net loss/gain can only be done in comparison to the rest of the competition and most (arguably all) of the clubs we have been competing with have fared significantly better from free agency than Hawthorn - which obviously suggests the introduction of FA has hindered Hawthorn but you are suggesting it has somehow advantaged us more than other clubs or even is a reason for our success. It clearly hasn't. Some of your criticisms of Hawthorn have been fair - this was not one of them.

 

[Leeda]

temporal agent is driving my hell cos shush..

tapps is the holy grail....

 

[Leeda]

hand bowlers it sucks.. kind of dubious...

 

[DangerSloane]

I like how you insist on including Henderson 'because he is best 22' despite being a delisted free agent but also insist we exclude all departing Hawthorn free agents, regardless of whether they were delisted, best 22 or not..

Clinton Young, for example, played 20 games, including all finals, the year Collingwood took him. He had played 116 games, including a premiership for Hawthorn. His last game for Hawthorn was a Grand Final - he was most definitely best 22 and not about to be delisted. He played 3 more seasons at Collingwood but picked up injuries.

Matthew Suckling had barely missed a game for 4 years when he left Hawthorn. His last match was a premiership win, his 3rd in a row. If that is not a valued best 22 player, what is?

Campbell Brown (does he count?) was a premiership winning, All Australian, heart and soul of the club player. Best 22 is underselling his importance.

Others, like Xavier Ellis, played all games he was fit for (and remained at West Coast for 4 more seasons).

There is no doubt Hawthorn have a net loss from free agency. Even counting Henderson is disingenuous as free agency has not made a significant difference to picking up delisted players. Hawthorn could have just used their last pick in the draft and got him anyway - he was unwanted. Besides, net loss/gain can only be done in comparison to the rest of the competition and most (arguably all) of the clubs we have been competing with have fared significantly better from free agency than Hawthorn - which obviously suggests the introduction of FA has hindered Hawthorn but you are suggesting it has somehow advantaged us more than other clubs or even is a reason for our success. It clearly hasn't. Some of your criticisms of Hawthorn have been fair - this was not one of them.

Actually I never stated, nor alluded to the fact that Free Agency had benefitted Hawthorn more than all other clubs.
I just said they have benefited. Which some dont agree with, fair enough its an opinion based thing.

IMO they let guys like Young and Ellis go when their value was more to other clubs than their own. They could've signed them but chose not to. They didnt 'lose' by letting these players go.

There is no way all other clubs have benefited more from free agency. That is just ridiculous.
Tell me how Brisbane have won out due to free agency?

FYI the guy we lost to free agency won the Brownlow the next season.

 

[Leeda]

It’s not how big your qualification is - it’s what you do with it

standby jamming it working it and we all try henry..

ups are total traffic..

 

[bumsonseats]

Educated finance guy hey?
What qualifications you got? Wanna compare?

You know seeing as you want to be a smart mouth.

Detail is clearly not your strong suite...
I didn’t mention anything about qualifications.

Tertiary educated - yes
Qualified - no
Working in the finance sector - no

Didn’t do the degree to work in the finance sector - hope that is ok by you

Doesn’t make me any less qualified to call bullshite when I see it

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

Yes you traded for them
There is this thing called a salary cap.

To explain it, teams can only pay a certain amount of money to their players as a whole.
So again, if Buddy had been at Hawthorn still on $1m per year, do you think you could have afforded to put big contracts in front of those two players?

Its a simple question.

I'll answer for you. Yeah probably. Buddy left in 2013, we signed Mitchell and JOM 4 years later. Are you suggesting that signing a guy means a club can't sign anyone else 4 years later?

More importantly, why does it matter?!?

 

[DangerSloane]

Detail is clearly not your strong suite...
I didn’t mention anything about qualifications.

Tertiary educated - yes
Qualified - no
Working in the finance sector - no

Didn’t do the degree to work in the finance sector - hope that is ok by you

Doesn’t make me any less qualified to call bullshite when I see it

Well when you try to put someones intelligence down by saying you're an 'educated finance guy', maybe think about it twice.
Especially when it turns that the person may be more educated and qualified than yourself.

You can call bullshite if you like, but no need for the garbage you produced.

 

[bumsonseats]

Actually I never stated, nor alluded to the fact that Free Agency had benefitted Hawthorn more than all other clubs.
I just said they have benefited. Which some dont agree with, fair enough its an opinion based thing.

IMO they let guys like Young and Ellis go when their value was more to other clubs than their own. They could've signed them but chose not to. They didnt 'lose' by letting these players go.

There is no way all other clubs have benefited more from free agency. That is just ridiculous.
Tell me how Brisbane have won out due to free agency?

FYI the guy we lost to free agency won the Brownlow the next season.

Clearly you are not one for facts.....
Danger was not a FA
Was a trade......

But like JOM and Tim Mitchell
They were trades

 

[DangerSloane]

I'll answer for you. Yeah probably. Buddy left in 2013, we signed Mitchell and JOM 4 years later. Are you suggesting that signing a guy means a club can't sign anyone else 4 years later?

More importantly, why does it matter?!?

But Buddy would still be playing on the same salary?
So its actually almost irrelevant that he left a few years before, unless youd managed to front load him heavily (unlikely given Hodge, Lewis, Mitchell still being there at that time)

I dont know the financial situation at Hawthorn but looking at it with logic, I think you would've struggled to attract both if Buddy had been there and getting a similar salary to what he is at Sydney.

Now whether you'd prefer to still have buddy or both JOM and TM is a tough call. Im sure its one that Hawks fans would struggle with too.

 

[DangerSloane]

Clearly you are not one for facts.....
Danger was not a FA
Was a trade......

But like JOM and Tim Mitchell
They were trades

He was a restricted FA.
Maybe you're not one for facts?

But thanks for the sarcasm when you're wrong.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

****.

Are you drinking?

This thread remind me of the way Trump tweets. Constantly move the goal posts around and just bombard everyone with so much rambling rubbish so everyone gets almost overwhelmed as to which idiotic thing to address first.

And when you address said idiotic thing, valid point are ignored, minor quibbles become main ones (the cutoff age for 'the older brigade', the relationship between trades 4 years apart) and the posts are shifted again.

Throw in some mild insults thrown in to keep us involved and a whole lot of projection and there you have it, he has successfully derailed a positive thread that was pissing him off.

 

[DangerSloane]

This thread remind me of the way Trump tweets. Constantly move the goal posts around and just bombard everyone with so much rambling rubbish so everyone gets almost overwhelmed as to which idiotic thing to address first.

And when you address said idiotic thing, valid point are ignored, minor quibbles become main ones (the cutoff age for 'the older brigade', the relationship between trades 4 years apart) and the posts are shifted again.

Throw in some mild insults thrown in to keep us involved and a whole lot of projection and there you have it, he has successfully derailed a positive thread that was pissing him off.

Trying to reply to 6 or 7 idiots at once isnt easy.

Happy for you to address where I'm wrong, but you arent.

The mild insults have come thick and fast from your direction too, champ.

The hypocrisy is blinding

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

But Buddy would still be playing on the same salary?
So its actually almost irrelevant that he left a few years before.

I dont know the financial situation at Hawthorn but looking at it with logic, I think you would've struggled to attract both if Buddy had been there and getting a similar salary to what he is at Sydney.

I answered your question, you ignored my answer and came up with an new pointless hypothetical.

Now whether you'd prefer to still have buddy or both JOM and TM is a tough call. Im sure its one that Hawks fans would struggle with too.

What is the point here? I can't even figure out what point you are trying to make anymore.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

Trying to reply to 6 or 7 idiots at once isnt easy.

Happy for you to address where I'm wrong, but you arent.

The mild insults have come thick and fast from your direction too, champ.

The hypocrisy is blinding

No you are not. People have been trying to address where you are wrong for days now.

 

[DangerSloane]

I answered your question, you ignored my answer and came up with an new pointless hypothetical.



What is the point here? I can't even figure out what point you are trying to make anymore.

Please show me where you answered my question.

At the moment the point is so far away its not even funny. The trouble is nobody can have a negative opinion about any aspect of Hawthorn without a string of offended replies.