Have we just witnessed the quickest rebuild in AFL history?

[ExYarraValley]

According to the rising star thread he's missed half the season and was garbage in half the games he's played.

According to this one he's a gift and the primary reason we're in the 8.

Funny how that works.

He is one of many gifts in your best 22.

 

[ashep]

He is one of many gifts in your best 22.

Considering you've got the biggest gift of all running around your midfield I guess you'd know.

Consider it paying it forward.

 

[WillHayward]

According to the rising star thread he's missed half the season and was garbage in half the games he's played.

According to this one he's a gift and the primary reason we're in the 8.

Funny how that works.

Very true.
Also bombers fans seem to think half their team are generational superstars.

Can't understand why they are 9th and not 3 games clear in first?

 

[Stencorp69]

He is one of many gifts in your best 22.

At pick 32? Not exactly hot property and the Hawks could have picked him up at 6 instead of Barras. The arguments are pretty thin.

 

[ExYarraValley]

At pick 32? Not exactly hot property and the Hawks could have picked him up at 6 instead of Barras. The arguments are pretty thin.

You understand how Academy picks work yeah?

 

[ExYarraValley]

Considering you've got the biggest gift of all running around your midfield I guess you'd know.

Consider it paying it forward.

Who would that be?

 

[RUNVS]

You understand how Academy picks work yeah?

Clearly you don't. You have no ability to understand nuance.

 

[The 747]

Didn't the Dogs get the No1 draft pick via their academy - other than WB being a Victorian team it kind of makes complaints about the Sydney academy irrelevant doesn't it?

No it does not make the complaints about the Sydney academy irrelevant.

 

[RUNVS]

No it does not make the complaints about the Sydney academy irrelevant.

Admit then that we are not getting these players for free. I think a discussion on the actual points system is valid, but in order to have that discussion people on the other side need to acknowledge we are not getting these players for free right now, that they are not a gift in the sense that while we are paying slight unders for them, we are still paying quite a bit for them.

 

[The 747]

Admit then that we are not getting these players for free. I think a discussion on the actual points system is valid, but in order to have that discussion people on the other side need to acknowledge we are not getting these players for free right now, that they are not a gift in the sense that while we are paying slight unders for them, we are still paying quite a bit for them.

Sydney aren't getting the players for free. Sydney are reaping the rewards of a long term investment into NSW football and junior development.

Sydney intended for this to be what they have always wanted, a permanent competitive advantage over the other clubs, because they believe they should have that for being the club that represents Sydney.

 

[RUNVS]

Sydney aren't getting the players for free. Sydney are reaping the rewards of a long term investment into NSW football and junior development.

Sydney intended for this to be what they have always wanted, a permanent competitive advantage over the other clubs, because they believe they should have that for being the club that represents Sydney.

Well any club would seek an advantage, and all clubs do try and go for that advantage if they think they can get it.

However, now we have established that the acadmey system has definitely helped junior development in NSW, a lot more players being produced there now than 10 to 15 years ago we can ask how to make the system fairer. With the idea of keeping the academy system because it is working how would you modify it to make it fairer?

 

[alex4445]

Ah, another academy bashing thread.

The academy system is building grass roots participation levels quite significantly which is what the AFL wants and it's paid for by the clubs, not the AFL, although the GC is indirrectly paid by the AFL via greater distribution to the GC.

I'd just get rid of the discounts, they are bullsh*t, the right to match a bid on an academy draftee or a F/S is enough incentive. If you are lucky enough to get the number one pick tied to your club, you should pay full price, not 20% off!

As for the OP about the quickest rebuild? Sydney's is certainly faster and looking better than the Adelaide rebuild debacle

It's always annoying when potentially interesting threads get derailed like this, especially when it is a topic that has been done to death.

With respect to the discount i think it will be gone for 1st round picks sometime in the next 2 years. I think it was necessary while the academies were setup considering how much they have cost, but now i think just having priority access is probably enough. I hope it is kept for later picks though to help with growing the proportion of local players on northern clubs lists.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Sydney aren't getting the players for free. Sydney are reaping the rewards of a long term investment into NSW football and junior development.

Sydney intended for this to be what they have always wanted, a permanent competitive advantage over the other clubs, because they believe they should have that for being the club that represents Sydney.

Paranoid tosh.

 

[The 747]

Well any club would seek an advantage, and all clubs do try and go for that advantage if they think they can get it.

However, now we have established that the acadmey system has definitely helped junior development in NSW, a lot more players being produced there now than 10 to 15 years ago we can ask how to make the system fairer. With the idea of keeping the academy system because it is working how would you modify it to make it fairer?

Yes but one club in particular thinks it is entitled to one.

As to how to make it fairer, that is difficult. The AFL system is convoluted and any system you come up with the clubs will find the holes.

Off the top of my head, the club nominates the players it wants to take from their academy. A panel of recruiters/experts assesses those players and advises a draft pick range for the player. The club pays (in points without any late pick stockpile shenanigans) if they wish to. If they don't take the player he goes in the draft - and there should be some mechanism to reward the club for developing players that other clubs draft. How that could work though I am not sure, perhaps simple transfer fees?

 

[The 747]

Paranoid tosh.

I see you have no response of substance to offer.

 

[Maddo11]

Yes but one club in particular thinks it is entitled to one.

Are you this upset about Brisbane having one?

 

[RUNVS]

Yes but one club in particular thinks it is entitled to one.

As to how to make it fairer, that is difficult. The AFL system is convoluted and any system you come up with the clubs will find the holes.

Off the top of my head, the club nominates the players it wants to take from their academy. A panel of recruiters/experts assesses those players and advises a draft pick range for the player. The club pays (in points without any late pick stockpile shenanigans) if they wish to. If they don't take the player he goes in the draft - and there should be some mechanism to reward the club for developing players that other clubs draft. How that could work though I am not sure, perhaps simple transfer fees?

That is very convoluted.

I will be honest and say I think the best solution is actually going entirely points based for drafting and trading.

Each team has points at the start of the trading process based on their ladder position

18th position - 4647 points
17th position - 4088 points
16th position - 3740 points
15th position - 3478 points
14th position - 3263 points
13th position - 3077 points
12th position - 2913 points
11th position - 2765 points
10th position - 2631 points
9th position - 2504 points
8th position - 2388 points
7th position - 2279 points
6th position - 2174 points
5th position - 2077 points
4th position - 1983 points
3rd position - 1894 points
2nd position - 1809 points
1st position - 1726 points

and lets use the Kelly exampe from a few years ago where West Coast didn't really have anything Geelong wanted. They could instead under this system simply pay Geelong 2000 points and West Coast would get Kelly (both teams negotiating how many points Kelly is worth)

Then come the draft day pick 1 is announced and every team has 2 minutes to submit who they want with pick 1, and the points they are willing to pay for pick 1.

Then, the team that handed over the most points for pick 1 gets the player they nominated (and it is not shown what the othet teams did). We then move onto pick 2, teams placing bids, stating the player they want and the points they are willing to pay and then the team that submitted the highest points total gets the player they want, then moving onto pick 3 etc.

If an academy kid is nominated at some point in the draft then the side the academy kid is attached to has a right to match the bid the rival team placed on said academy player, paying the points the rival team wants to pay.

To me this is a much fairer system, not just for the academies, but for the trading and drafting system in general.

 

[The 747]

That is very convoluted.

I will be honest and say I think the best solution is actually going entirely points based for drafting and trading.

Each team has points at the start of the trading process based on their ladder position

18th position - 4647 points
17th position - 4088 points
16th position - 3740 points
15th position - 3478 points
14th position - 3263 points
13th position - 3077 points
12th position - 2913 points
11th position - 2765 points
10th position - 2631 points
9th position - 2504 points
8th position - 2388 points
7th position - 2279 points
6th position - 2174 points
5th position - 2077 points
4th position - 1983 points
3rd position - 1894 points
2nd position - 1809 points
1st position - 1726 points

and lets use the Kelly exampe from a few years ago where West Coast didn't really have anything Geelong wanted. They could instead under this system simply pay Geelong 2000 points and West Coast would get Kelly (both teams negotiating how many points Kelly is worth)

Then come the draft day pick 1 is announced and every team has 2 minutes to submit who they want with pick 1, and the points they are willing to pay for pick 1.

Then, the team that handed over the most points for pick 1 gets the player they nominated (and it is not shown what the othet teams did). We then move onto pick 2, teams placing bids, stating the player they want and the points they are willing to pay and then the team that submitted the highest points total gets the player they want, then moving onto pick 3 etc.

If an academy kid is nominated at some point in the draft then the side the academy kid is attached to has a right to match the bid the rival team placed on said academy player, paying the points the rival team wants to pay.

To me this is a much fairer system, not just for the academies, but for the trading and drafting system in general.

Sure, and logically this works - but it is too much of a departure to be realistic IMO

 

[MF]

That is very convoluted.

I will be honest and say I think the best solution is actually going entirely points based for drafting and trading.

Each team has points at the start of the trading process based on their ladder position

18th position - 4647 points
17th position - 4088 points
16th position - 3740 points
15th position - 3478 points
14th position - 3263 points
13th position - 3077 points
12th position - 2913 points
11th position - 2765 points
10th position - 2631 points
9th position - 2504 points
8th position - 2388 points
7th position - 2279 points
6th position - 2174 points
5th position - 2077 points
4th position - 1983 points
3rd position - 1894 points
2nd position - 1809 points
1st position - 1726 points

and lets use the Kelly exampe from a few years ago where West Coast didn't really have anything Geelong wanted. They could instead under this system simply pay Geelong 2000 points and West Coast would get Kelly (both teams negotiating how many points Kelly is worth)

Then come the draft day pick 1 is announced and every team has 2 minutes to submit who they want with pick 1, and the points they are willing to pay for pick 1.

Then, the team that handed over the most points for pick 1 gets the player they nominated (and it is not shown what the othet teams did). We then move onto pick 2, teams placing bids, stating the player they want and the points they are willing to pay and then the team that submitted the highest points total gets the player they want, then moving onto pick 3 etc.

If an academy kid is nominated at some point in the draft then the side the academy kid is attached to has a right to match the bid the rival team placed on said academy player, paying the points the rival team wants to pay.

To me this is a much fairer system, not just for the academies, but for the trading and drafting system in general.

I've said for quite some time we need to move to a system like this. It will make it far easier for players to move clubs and addresses just about every single gripe anyone has with priority picks, father sons, academy selections, trading future picks, free agent compensation etc etc.

A while ago I think it could have been considered too complicated but now that we're using the stupid convoluted points equivalent system for picks anyway, why not do it?

 

[RUNVS]

I've said for quite some time we need to move to a system like this. It will make it far easier for players to move clubs and addresses just about every single gripe anyone has with priority picks, father sons, academy selections, trading future picks, free agent compensation etc etc.

A while ago I think it could have been considered too complicated but now that we're using the stupid convoluted points equivalent system for picks anyway, why not do it?

It also makes tanking less likely as who is going to tank to get 4500 points instead of getting the 4250 points or whatever it is for the 17th side.

Also there will be odd choices, as teams could throw all their eggs in the basket of getting pick 1, but have nothing left afterwards. A team could make a killing placing smaller bids on the 11th through to 15th selections if a lot of their rivals go big early and eat through most of their points.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

I see you have no response of substance to offer.

Kind of apt, I reckon.

 

[SharkMeister4]

The one closest to my heart was definitly the bulldogs 2014-2015. now I dont think we would call it the fastest because we had bottomed out already from our peak in 2010, however we were by all estimates ****ed post 2014 and the following year was an insane result for us

 

[DeadlyAkkuret]

If we win the flag this year, yes.

If we win it next year, yes but maybe.

Either way, flag or no flag it’s impressive.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Haduken]

You are obsessed. Trying to hijack the rising star thread as well with the same tired argument.

Also sometimes referred to as"the facts"

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Are you this upset about Brisbane having one?

Obviously they're not as upset, because we haven't had a top 10 pick from ours. But that's in part due to the club investing less in the academy than Sydney has.