- Apr 26, 2011
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Yeah Hoi. No more yellow and brown campaigners for the rest of the year
Game Day Hawforn v Doggies - Semi Final
- Thread starter Kram
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Bont shows tremendous skills, physicality and smarts and he appears to play the game very fairly. So he has my admiration.
But ... I think some of you need to watch him play without the fawning commentary hype.
Shoot me down here, I don't mind ... I guess I like playing the devil's advocate and showing another side to the mainstream point of view when I feel it's warranted.
I was unable to watch tonight's game. I saw the results and headlines regarding Bontempelli. I watched his game highlights first with no audio. They were nothing special. Really, just one good defensive turnover against Hodge (which I first thought was two events when they showed it from two different camera shots), everything else was fairly football routine stuff. I then watched those same highlights with audio ... and it was like watching a Jaws movie with and without a soundtrack. My point is, watch a Fyfe highlights video without audio ... you will still get shivers down your spine.
So I dug a little deeper. So far in 2016, Bontempelli is currently ranked 6th for Disposal Averages for the Western Bulldogs (Full disclaimer, that does include Robert Murphy's 3 games). In Fyfe's 2nd (& 3rd and 4th) year of football he was ranked 2nd for Freo. I don't want this to become a Bontempelli versus Fyfe comparison, because I also think Patrick Cripps from Carlton is a far better and more valuable player than Bontempelli ... I am more trying to make the point that please try to view Bontempelli's performances without being clouded by the current media hype. He's a quality player, but he ain't no Fyfe.
In any case, he helped put an end to Fourthorn, so I'm a fan ... just not as much as Bruce McAvaney.
But ... I think some of you need to watch him play without the fawning commentary hype.
Shoot me down here, I don't mind ... I guess I like playing the devil's advocate and showing another side to the mainstream point of view when I feel it's warranted.
I was unable to watch tonight's game. I saw the results and headlines regarding Bontempelli. I watched his game highlights first with no audio. They were nothing special. Really, just one good defensive turnover against Hodge (which I first thought was two events when they showed it from two different camera shots), everything else was fairly football routine stuff. I then watched those same highlights with audio ... and it was like watching a Jaws movie with and without a soundtrack. My point is, watch a Fyfe highlights video without audio ... you will still get shivers down your spine.
So I dug a little deeper. So far in 2016, Bontempelli is currently ranked 6th for Disposal Averages for the Western Bulldogs (Full disclaimer, that does include Robert Murphy's 3 games). In Fyfe's 2nd (& 3rd and 4th) year of football he was ranked 2nd for Freo. I don't want this to become a Bontempelli versus Fyfe comparison, because I also think Patrick Cripps from Carlton is a far better and more valuable player than Bontempelli ... I am more trying to make the point that please try to view Bontempelli's performances without being clouded by the current media hype. He's a quality player, but he ain't no Fyfe.
In any case, he helped put an end to Fourthorn, so I'm a fan ... just not as much as Bruce McAvaney.
WeaselWJ
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Comparing average disposals is really useless to be honest. It's like saying Cyril Rioli isn't an amazing player because he only gets 13 touches a game. Your criticism that Bontempelli is over-hyped is easily disproven by the stats. The AFL Player Ratings had him best-on-ground (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Csef2gNUEAAXxHp.jpg) and rates him as the 6th best player in the game (http://www.afl.com.au/stats/player-ratings/overall-standings). That is based purely on the stats from Champion Data, including things like pressure acts, metres gained, and a hundred other things. This shouldn't be a comparison thing, because most people agree that Fyfe is a better player. People are just in awe of a guy that is one of the best players in the comp (both statistically, and by measures like the AFLPA and and Coaches' Association votes) at the age of 20.
TL;DR Bontempelli is absolutely not all media hype and is a high impact player, which is statistically evident as well as evident to most media people.
- Jul 2, 2013
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"Comparing average disposals is really useless to be honest" ... gee I look forward to hearing some of your statements when you're not being honest. Would you like to give me some examples of Brownlow medal winning midfielders with poor average disposals? Or even an MVP or AFLCA award winner. Good luck with that. Rioli is a forward. His primary KPI is to kick goals ... which he does in good numbers. Using him is a ridiculous argument. A primary KPI for a midfielder is average disposals. Arguing against that really does highlight a level of ignorance. Neither do I recall seeing "high impacts" as a statistical category with Champion Data.
Maybe Freo should get some of these media people who can identify levels of "high impact" in players to assist with our recruiting. Strangely, I can't remember seeing "high impact" as one of the draft combine test scores. It does seem somewhat convenient, arguing against the possibility of media hype by using media people as your defence. Are these the same media people who were talking up Yeo as Fyfe like in 2015 ... while I was declaring Yeo as very overrated. I recall in 2015 a similar amount of hype about Jake Stringer. He was named in the 2015 All Australian team ... come 2016 and he was getting dropped from the seniors team. Now I think Stringer is a great player, as I also do about Bontempelli, but when people start talking about Bontempelli in the same category as Fyfe, then that is very premature and in my opinion overrated (... or Fyfe is being underrated) ... which was the provocation for my initial post.
AFL Player ratings ... really ... you want to tell me Nic Nat is the 7th best player in the comp and Fyfe is the 22nd. Isn't that my point I'm trying to make ... ie. don't believe the hyped up AFL propaganda. If you can show me the exact formula for the AFL player ratings ... I'll concede I'm wrong about Bontempelli. Good luck with that one ... especially listing the "hundred other things". Why is it so hard to find the formula for those AFL player ratings? Those ratings are not exactly what you would call transparent. In any case, look at Patrick Cripps' AFL player ratings trending ... he will be rated higher than Bontempelli in 12 months according to their graphs. Under the AFL player stats, Bontempelli is equal 41st for AFL Fantasy averages in 2016.
"TL;DR" ... If you don't have time to read somebodies entire post, then it seems strange you can find the time to reply to it.
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- Mar 25, 2016
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This is your board. And you're obviously entitled to say whatever the hell you want. But to state that Cripps is "FAR" better player than Bont is just straight out ridiculous. Cripps is a beast inside. Absolutely no doubt. A contested and clearence beast. But I watch Bont live every week. And when Bevo wants him to be, he can be a tough, physical inside clearence beast too. But what's the point of treating a Rolls Royce like a tractor? Bont also rips apart games on the outside with foot skills and avasiveness that Cripps could only dream about. Plus Bont goes up forward and kicks goals.
Plus he's six months younger than what Cripps is. He's still 20 years old!!
I'm not saying that he's not overhyped. Let's be honest, he could only aspire to be as good as what Fyfe is to this point. Fyfe is the best player in the game. But to say Cripps is far better, and is more valuable is a joke. Bont has singlehandedly won us games off his own boot this year on multiple ocassions. The reason he started so slow was because he has off season hip surgery, and didn't start running until February.
Bont has tangible impact with most of his disposals and he has a knack of making the right decision at the right time, that's not a fluke or over rating him or anything to do with "the mainstream point of view", that is pure skill.
He was 8th in this season's MVPs behind 4 other midfielders. Voted by the players, nothing to do with the levels of excitement expressed in the commentary box or random stats.
He is worth every bit of hype
.
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As good as Bont is Fyfe is +++++++ on him.
Bontempelli is easily in the same conversation as Fyfe. He's mercurial, a big game player, takes the game by the scruff when its there for the taking and just generally does winning stuff. He's intelligent, level headed and eloquent just like Fyfe.
I have Cripps a level below. Sure he's a beast but he doesn't have the genius touch to do exactly the right thing when its needed that separates the very best. Hird had it in spades as did Carey.
I have Cripps a level below. Sure he's a beast but he doesn't have the genius touch to do exactly the right thing when its needed that separates the very best. Hird had it in spades as did Carey.
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Hird had amazing awareness and always looked like he had so much time with the footy. Was also the king of getting away with throwing the footy as 'handballs'.
ydraw
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Deal was done months ago imo
We can renegotiate or tell hawthorn to try and fit him under their bulging salary cap. Deal cannot have been done in any official capacity yet
Have it on good authority we had our pinkies crossed during the original negotiations.
ydraw
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Nobody will be renegotiating anything on the basis of a single game. Hill's been playing AFL for 5 years and has played nearly 100 games.
I read that as pickles crossed at first...
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Stop it with the bont love. He will never be fyfe
And shoot you down I will. Bonts was immense for Bulldogs last night, just the way he got his hands on the football and for a 20 year old just stood up when the game was on the line in the 2nd and 3rd quarter. He's going to be a future elite mid and could come close to a Brownlow the way Western Bulldogs are going.
Cripps is simply a superstar in an otherwise underwhelming Carlton side. Of course he will stand out in that team.
Freo Quokkas
Cancelled
Good riddance Hawthorn! Competition has returned to the code.
You think so? GWS have something like 18 first round draft picks in their Best 22...
He'll probably have a longer career than Nat. Seems like less of a douchebag too.
You need to stop breathing. Five minutes should do it.
I like Nat, especially when he doesn't talk.
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I like NAt , talk or no talk.
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I got the response that I expected regarding Bontempelli.
When I made my comment that I think Cripps is "far better", I exaggerated, hyped him up and I got the appropriate response. But when people put Bontempelli in the same class as Fyfe, that's ok? I do value Cripps more than Bontempelli, because I value the contested football player so highly (which is why I hold Fyfe in such high regard). If you value football skills higher, then yes I can understand why you could rate Bontempelli higher than both Cripps and Fyfe. In Cripps' first 44 games (first 3 seasons), he had 11 games with 30+ possessions (5 of his last 6). Bontempelli has had 4 from 61 games, Fyfe had 5 from his first 50 games, but remember, very few outside of Freo rated Fyfe back then (I did very early on). It was only when he physically developed in his 4th season (2013), that he got the recognition he deserved. Cripps' season clearances and contested possessions have been as good or better than J.Kennedy from SY who I easily rate in the current top5 players in the comp. Kennedy (SY) was absolutely brilliant in Sydney's last night win. 42 possessions, 21 contested and 10 clearances ... yet no headlines. This was the extent of Kennedy's write up in the AFL match report "They were ferocious around the contest, led by a colossal 42-disposal, 10-clearance night from Josh Kennedy, who got great midfield support from Tom Mitchell (32 touches), Dan Hannebery (31) and Luke Parker (24 and 12 tackles)." Whereas, the Bontempelli headlines, articles and commentary were filled with words like legend and superstar. McAvaney wet his pants during the TV commentary ... which again I ask you to watch Bontempelli's highlights with no audio and you will see a good contested mark and an excellent defensive intercept against Hodge ... the rest of it was nothing extraordinary. I'm not bagging Bontempelli here, far from it. I'm just saying I saw less than what was reported and commentated.
I understand I'm touching on an area sensitive to many who love Bontempelli ... the same way I love Fyfe ... which is why I reacted when people posted Bontempelli in the same consideration as Fyfe.
When I made my comment that I think Cripps is "far better", I exaggerated, hyped him up and I got the appropriate response. But when people put Bontempelli in the same class as Fyfe, that's ok? I do value Cripps more than Bontempelli, because I value the contested football player so highly (which is why I hold Fyfe in such high regard). If you value football skills higher, then yes I can understand why you could rate Bontempelli higher than both Cripps and Fyfe. In Cripps' first 44 games (first 3 seasons), he had 11 games with 30+ possessions (5 of his last 6). Bontempelli has had 4 from 61 games, Fyfe had 5 from his first 50 games, but remember, very few outside of Freo rated Fyfe back then (I did very early on). It was only when he physically developed in his 4th season (2013), that he got the recognition he deserved. Cripps' season clearances and contested possessions have been as good or better than J.Kennedy from SY who I easily rate in the current top5 players in the comp. Kennedy (SY) was absolutely brilliant in Sydney's last night win. 42 possessions, 21 contested and 10 clearances ... yet no headlines. This was the extent of Kennedy's write up in the AFL match report "They were ferocious around the contest, led by a colossal 42-disposal, 10-clearance night from Josh Kennedy, who got great midfield support from Tom Mitchell (32 touches), Dan Hannebery (31) and Luke Parker (24 and 12 tackles)." Whereas, the Bontempelli headlines, articles and commentary were filled with words like legend and superstar. McAvaney wet his pants during the TV commentary ... which again I ask you to watch Bontempelli's highlights with no audio and you will see a good contested mark and an excellent defensive intercept against Hodge ... the rest of it was nothing extraordinary. I'm not bagging Bontempelli here, far from it. I'm just saying I saw less than what was reported and commentated.
I understand I'm touching on an area sensitive to many who love Bontempelli ... the same way I love Fyfe ... which is why I reacted when people posted Bontempelli in the same consideration as Fyfe.
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