Hawke

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swingdog

swingdog

Norm Smith Medallist
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Aug 3, 2007
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Hawke: The Larrikin and the Leader. Anyone else catch this on ABC last night?

http://iview.abc.net.au/programs/hawke-the-larrikin-and-the-leader/DO1628H001S00

Apart from the obviously different morals and technologies of the 70s, which allowed someone like Hawke to do well despite his foibles, the thing that struck me was the fact that he had a life before politics. He was sizing up the long game of getting to the Lodge quite early but he had been around enough to know how things worked outside Canberra.

All thought Neil Blewett's observation of the ALP doing anything it takes to get Hawke up over Hayden, and that it has become the modus operandi for them since with consequences for Rudd, Gillard etc. was very perceptive.
 
swingdog said:
Hawke: The Larrikin and the Leader. Anyone else catch this on ABC last night?

http://iview.abc.net.au/programs/hawke-the-larrikin-and-the-leader/DO1628H001S00

Apart from the obviously different morals and technologies of the 70s, which allowed someone like Hawke to do well despite his foibles, the thing that struck me was the fact that he had a life before politics. He was sizing up the long game of getting to the Lodge quite early but he had been around enough to know how things worked outside Canberra.

All thought Neil Blewett's observation of the ALP doing anything it takes to get Hawke up over Hayden, and that it has become the modus operandi for them since with consequences for Rudd, Gillard etc. was very perceptive.
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Union boss to Labor leader is hardly uncommon.

That said, there is some irony in him being more responsible for the decline in unions than any other.
 

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Wages Accord
Floating the dollar
Banking deregulation
Medicare

He has some actual accomplishments and laid some substantial building blocks for Australia's modern society.
 
Messenger said:
Wages Accord
Floating the dollar
Banking deregulation
Medicare

He has some actual accomplishments and laid some substantial building blocks for Australia's modern society.
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I find the wages part quite interesting. It has been raised a number of times by multiple economists as being part of the reason wage growth is poor when contrasted with company incomes.
 
HairyO said:
Union boss to Labor leader is hardly uncommon.

That said, there is some irony in him being more responsible for the decline in unions than any other.
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Became a scabherder and his Accord destroyed the union movement in this country.
 
TimmeT said:
I find the wages part quite interesting. It has been raised a number of times by multiple economists as being part of the reason wage growth is poor when contrasted with company incomes.
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It contributed to pulling inflation down and helped pay for the social safety net. And the accord rises were not small by current standards.
 
Messenger said:
It contributed to pulling inflation down and helped pay for the social safety net. And the accord rises were not small by current standards.
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It might have then, it is not now. Thus why comments have been made that the decision to alter theway wage rises were calculated which were done at that time have caused the stagnant wage growth issues currently presenr.
 
Kids these days don't realise that Hawke was the Donald Trump of his time. A populist numpty with no real skills to his name. Sensible people were quite rightly appalled that he propelled himself to the leadership immediately before an election that the ALP were a shoo-in to win.

Fair credit to him, unlike Trump he had the sense to realise he had zero skills beyond demagoguery and left the actual governing to people more qualified.
 
TimmeT said:
It might have then, it is not now. Thus why comments have been made that the decision to alter theway wage rises were calculated which were done at that time have caused the stagnant wage growth issues currently presenr.
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Not sure they were overwhelmed with alternatives at the time and there were any number of policy decisions that followed which affected the IR landscape.
 
Messenger said:
Not sure they were overwhelmed with alternatives at the time and there were any number of policy decisions that followed which affected the IR landscape.
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The info showed that the way wage rises are worked out hasn't really changed since this time.
 
Demosthenes said:
Kids these days don't realise that Hawke was the Donald Trump of his time. A populist numpty with no real skills to his name. Sensible people were quite rightly appalled that he propelled himself to the leadership immediately before an election that the ALP were a shoo-in to win.

Fair credit to him, unlike Trump he had the sense to realise he had zero skills beyond demagoguery and left the actual governing to people more qualified.
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Hawke had been a serious player in federal politics for ten years prior to even entering Parliament, he was hardly a Johnny Come Lately like Trump. You need to show a bit of working here.
 

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Being the ACTU's mouthpiece hardly equates to 'serious player'. By those standards you could call Trump the same by virtue of his donations, speeches, abortive involvement in elections, etc.

Hawke was a reactionary demagogue who was popular with the hoi polloi because he dressed like a spiv and sunk a lot of piss.
 
Messenger said:
Wages Accord
Floating the dollar
Banking deregulation
Medicare

He has some actual accomplishments and laid some substantial building blocks for Australia's modern society.
Click to expand...
The Liberal Party backed floating the dollar and the deregulation of banks. They were against the Accord and for good reason. Companies can’t be competitive with centralised wages in Australia. We needed to move and still need to move to a wages system that pays workers a lower minimum wage plus a percentage of turnover based on industry standards. This encourages greater productivity and most workers in Australia would’ve received substantially higher wages for most of the 90’s until the present day.
I’m assuming that the Liberal Party was against Medicare as well. Medicare in its current form is unsustainable. Costs are continually blowing out. Something needs to be done to reign in costs while protecting the poor!
 
Demosthenes said:
Being the ACTU's mouthpiece hardly equates to 'serious player'. By those standards you could call Trump the same by virtue of his donations, speeches, abortive involvement in elections, etc.

Hawke was a reactionary demagogue who was popular with the hoi polloi because he dressed like a spiv and sunk a lot of piss.
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John Howard was a demagogue by your loose definition.

I would have thought Hawke's role in the establishment of Medicare was a worthy achievement. I don't see the comparison to Trump at all.
 
Lebbo73 said:
The Liberal Party backed floating the dollar and the deregulation of banks. They were against the Accord and for good reason. Companies can’t be competitive with centralised wages in Australia. We needed to move and still need to move to a wages system that pays workers a lower minimum wage plus a percentage of turnover based on industry standards. This encourages greater productivity and most workers in Australia would’ve received substantially higher wages for most of the 90’s until the present day.
I’m assuming that the Liberal Party was against Medicare as well. Medicare in its current form is unsustainable. Costs are continually blowing out. Something needs to be done to reign in costs while protecting the poor!
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I thought the significance of the Accord was not that we had centralised wages, but that it was a bargaining position to fund Medicare. I don't agree you can pay staff based on company turnover. Try running your household based on the quality of the choices your employer makes month to month.

I don't know what the Libs position was on Medicare, but as someone who works in health I can point to the driver of costs. Technology is more expensive and many of the rebates have been frozen for years even decades in some sectors, leading to higher out of pocket costs. Doctors haven't had their wages frozen though.
 
Lebbo73 said:
The Liberal Party backed floating the dollar and the deregulation of banks. They were against the Accord and for good reason. Companies can’t be competitive with centralised wages in Australia. We needed to move and still need to move to a wages system that pays workers a lower minimum wage plus a percentage of turnover based on industry standards. This encourages greater productivity and most workers in Australia would’ve received substantially higher wages for most of the 90’s until the present day.
I’m assuming that the Liberal Party was against Medicare as well. Medicare in its current form is unsustainable. Costs are continually blowing out. Something needs to be done to reign in costs while protecting the poor!
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Austrlian Healthcare costs are quite reasonable, and sustainable.

Lower wages would increase the working poor and be bad for society.

Really why do capitalists object to the users pays principle? Labour costs, if it isn't a living wage then the companies are just palming the cost on to society.

why wont companies pay their way?
 
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I don't think some people understand just how over-regulated Australia was in the 1970s and 80s. Hawke/Keating made many important and broad economic reforms, mostly towards the free market. I remember at the time some people were complaining that Keating as treasurer was more right-wing than Fraser. Stagflation was the curse of the western democracies at the time and Australia was no exception. The importance of The Accord should not be underestimated in terms of the effect it had in combating the wage-price spiral. I doubt that anyone on the other side of politics would have been able to negotiate it, and probably not many others within the ALP. It was Hawke's contribution to Australian history and in it's time and place it was quite a big deal.
 
Demosthenes said:
Being the ACTU's mouthpiece hardly equates to 'serious player'. By those standards you could call Trump the same by virtue of his donations, speeches, abortive involvement in elections, etc.

Hawke was a reactionary demagogue who was popular with the hoi polloi because he dressed like a spiv and sunk a lot of piss.
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How would you know you were a kid
Actu then had power prior to union bashing
Stop posting crap do some research
 
Rhodes scholership s are not given to people who DON'T TOW THE LINE
Did his job for the elite floating the dollar and putting us on the reserve bank route
More fool us
Just another conservative union plant , supported by rupe
Been going on every since
 
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