No Oppo Supporters Hawks and Pokies

Capital growth presumes that the value of the land will inflate?

We are putting vast amounts of money into a land parcel that was zoned 'green wedge'

Getting 'green wedge' zoned to a higher yielding residential or heavy industrial / commercial would be a miracle.

https://www.planning.vic.gov.au/__d...Green-Wedge-Planning-Provisions_June-2015.pdf

And even with 5 years of work the club has put into the site, and the substantial monies by the club already invested into the lands (up to $15m), the current plan that has been released for public comment only has a very honest gymnaisum, cafe and medical centre (with restricted hours)

Do we have the capacity on our board and on staff to pull this off? I have my doubts...

Meanwhile we are one of the few Victorian clubs that have not had substantial handounts from the AFL, State, Fed govt and as of May 2019 we backed the wrong horse in the Federal Election.
The land value will increase - former tip site getting developed for community and private use, Dingley Bypass and Mordialloc Freeway, the area will rise.

Green Wedge zoning will change.

We have the capacity to get it done. 5 years of planning isn't a negative. Rushing in to a large project and f**king it up show a board without the capacity to get it done.

We do get money from the AFL, just not as much as other clubs. Simply because we haven't needed it, we aren't insolvent like the others.

We will get Govt funding.


Calm down. If you're in a frenzy over a club like Hawthorn, god help you if you ever support North, Saints or Melbourne...
 
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Pools, Basketball stadium with 6 courts, massive gym, cafes will all provide yearly return to the club as the project is being designed around the Hawks training base + a community facility for all to use.

Apart from the gym, and it’s not like there is a shortage of those around the place is there?, which of those will generate a substantial ROI

The medical centre is probably the one asset which could be quite lucrative. The rest will generate chicken feed
 
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The land value will increase - former tip site getting developed for community and private use, Dingley Bypass and Mordialloc Freeway, the area will rise.

Green Wedge zoning will change.

We have the capacity to get it done. 5 years of planning isn't a negative. Rushing in to a large project and f**king it up show a board without the capacity to get it done.

We do get money from the AFL, just not as much as other clubs. Simply because we haven't needed it, we aren't insolvent like the others.

We will get Govt funding.


Calm down. If you're in a frenzy over a club like Hawthorn, god help you if you ever support North, Saints or Melbourne...

You’re not wrong re other clubs. But don’t underestimate how difficult re-zoning can be...

Also, the size and make up of AFL clubs (especially Victorian ‘membership’ clubs) makes funding a project of this size unprecedented

Reading between the lines, we’ve raised $30m, hope to raise another $30m from Caroline Springs and haven’t had any formal commitments from the AFL, State, Feds or LGA.

Sinking $60m of club money into a facility is unprecedented for any AFL club (West Coast and Fremantle commitment monies after substantial support from the WA Gov)
 

Hawk Dork

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The Kirner government legalised poker machines in Victoria so I am not sure how Kennett “opened the floodgates”. However I agree governments of all persuasions are addicted to the revenue they receive from gambling.
For the record, I have little interest in gambling other than buying the odd lottery ticket. Gambling has always been a mug’s game.
Check the numbers pre and post
 
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You’re not wrong re other clubs. But don’t underestimate how difficult re-zoning can be...

Also, the size and make up of AFL clubs (especially Victorian ‘membership’ clubs) makes funding a project of this size unprecedented

Reading between the lines, we’ve raised $30m, hope to raise another $30m from Caroline Springs and haven’t had any formal commitments from the AFL, State, Feds or LGA.

Sinking $60m of club money into a facility is unprecedented for any AFL club (West Coast and Fremantle commitment monies after substantial support from the WA Gov)
I hear your concerns as $60m is a lot of money for a sporting organisation to plough into a facility, especially when you are the mercy of an establishment that doesn't want you to be leaving others behind. Finding the other $60m will be the interesting part. Whilst having backed the wrong horse previously, chances are when the next election rolls around, that horse might be very short odds and some funds to be found. There will have to be some from the public purses. You can guarantee that media commentary around that will not be favourable to the Hawks even though the Hawks would be one of the last to have received any funding for this purpose.

Yes having Green Wedge rezoned is difficult but not insurmountable. There are recent instances where former tip/extraction sites have been rezoned to industrial with virtually no fuss (one one them was extremely full with contamination that beggars belief). If rehabilitated properly, it can be done. And once the Hawks have established the mega site (and it is huge), there is definitely money to be made through rezoning. And what is stopping growth upwards?

Interesting times either way
 

dermott

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Check the numbers pre and post

OK. So Joan only opened the flood gates wide enough to allow a trickle of pokies into Victoria, then Jeff opened them wider allowing a torrent.
Personally, I would prefer to watch grass grow rather than play a poker machine. It is difficult to comprehend how something so boring can be addictive but for many people it is.
 

Hawk Dork

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OK. So Joan only opened the flood gates wide enough to allow a trickle of pokies into Victoria, then Jeff opened them wider allowing a torrent.
Personally, I would prefer to watch grass grow rather than play a poker machine. It is difficult to comprehend how something so boring can be addictive but for many people it is.
Jeff made it a 1/4 of state revenue (or something close to that from memory)
Basically sell state assetts and put a tax on the poor to fund hospitals and schools
 
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You clearly wanted to blame Kennett..you are wrong.
Kirner introduced 10000 poker machines enter Victoria in one year then lost government.
On any view she is a person who opened the floodgates.
It was a long time ago but my memory was that she kicked off the pokies in Vic. Glad you have the data. Even still, looks like Jeff personally profits from them and unlikely to campaign against them even though he ought to given his association with beyond blue.
 
You’re not wrong re other clubs. But don’t underestimate how difficult re-zoning can be...

Also, the size and make up of AFL clubs (especially Victorian ‘membership’ clubs) makes funding a project of this size unprecedented

Reading between the lines, we’ve raised $30m, hope to raise another $30m from Caroline Springs and haven’t had any formal commitments from the AFL, State, Feds or LGA.

Sinking $60m of club money into a facility is unprecedented for any AFL club (West Coast and Fremantle commitment monies after substantial support from the WA Gov)
Hence why the club has been planning for 5 years and not jumped in blind.

$60m of the $120m will be there.

Then the club still has 60 pokies at WestWaters and the Vegas club at WG......AND we can still sell the Ricoh Centre (the AFL Umpires were keen to buy it as a training base)

The state and Fed govt will commit funding, its only a matter of time and im sure thats the work the club is doing behind the scenes.

The AFL will pump in money as part of our Tas exit.

Unprecedented projects? Tha'ts why i love this club, and when (not if) we pull it off, we're light years ahead of other clubs
 

BobDay

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How about you get a few things right before you start on things like that.
Please tell us all how Kennett "personally profits"
from the poker machines.
Secondly Kennett is on the record as saying that introducing poker machines into the state was a big mistake.
Thirdly he was part of a bipartisan position to limit the number of poker machines in the state.
 
he opened the flood gates for them in Victoria doubt he will be a convincing anti pokies campaigner
Let's get one thing straight Joan Kirner's Labor government introduced them back in 1992
 
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How about you get a few things right before you start on things like that.
Please tell us all how Kennett "personally profits"
from the poker machines.
Secondly Kennett is on the record as saying that introducing poker machines into the state was a big mistake.
Thirdly he was part of a bipartisan position to limit the number of poker machines in the state.
for your first question, there is this...

Don’t know if he is still a major shareholder but certainly it’s not the greatest investment for someone who is allegedly against pokies.
 
I predicted this
I didn't.

I hoped we'd do a staged withdrawal & suggested 10% a year over 10 yrs etc. This is a massive statement & commitment. I fully appreciate that it's a commercial decision & we're not just walking away from pokies because they're bad - but it's also a good decision & I like that.
 
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The value of a pokies venue for the Hawks is in that it gives constant income. Be it in times of plenty or times of hardship, pokies produce constant revenue. Alcohol and Cigarettes are also financially constant earners.

I had hoped that the Hawks would step away from their association with Pokies Entirely, given their association with Beyond Blue, by investing into infrastructure projects... we all know traffic produces constant income.

But putting money into Dingley also makes sense. The problem is that Dingley will not “feather the financial nest“ = will not produce a significant income... unless the facilities are initially backed by the government (not happening) which is unlikely ...and then made open to the public... which the Hawks are trying to do but must do better.

I went to a cider house that had a grassed area with umbrellas, and live music. It was a normal day but it felt like a festival.

Consider a coffee shop with the bonus of watching the elite football players train... I’d be there... if Dingley is going to work it must have attractions other than football.
 
Yes, they have been, as i stated with full knowledge.
Not all licensed venues have pokies.
Not all licensed venues that want pokies get them.
They are deliberately and strategically placed into areas of low socioeconomic activity
I don’t know Melbourne very well so can’t really give examples, but what if a pub in an affluent suburb wanted a license, compared with a pub in a lesser affluent area? Let’s say an upper-class suburb vs a lower-class, based on average earnings etc.

Would each pub have the same likelihood of having their application approved, or would the Govt. try to keep them away from the nicer suburb etc.? Or is are you saying that the license holder is the one making the decision as to where to put them?
 
AFL can't have it both ways and look down on clubs who are involved in poker machines fleecing the public, while the AFL themselves go hand in hand with betting companies on their broadcasts etc.
But they do. And half the reason they talk about it is tlo keep the focus on pokies and not on what they do.

The value of a pokies venue for the Hawks is in that it gives constant income. Be it in times of plenty or times of hardship, pokies produce constant revenue. Alcohol and Cigarettes are also financially constant earners.

I had hoped that the Hawks would step away from their association with Pokies Entirely, given their association with Beyond Blue, by investing into infrastructure projects... we all know traffic produces constant income.

But putting money into Dingley also makes sense. The problem is that Dingley will not “feather the financial nest“ = will not produce a significant income... unless the facilities are initially backed by the government (not happening) which is unlikely ...and then made open to the public... which the Hawks are trying to do but must do better.

I went to a cider house that had a grassed area with umbrellas, and live music. It was a normal day but it felt like a festival.

Consider a coffee shop with the bonus of watching the elite football players train... I’d be there... if Dingley is going to work it must have attractions other than football.
Dingley will be an asset it will be on the books. Whether it will be profitable in its own right I don't know but having the facilities the club needs to compete at the highest level on field is important.

If they get it right they set themselves up big time. It's a big risk but it's the kind of risk that I like.
 
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Some people are just wired that way. You think you’re saving them by believing that Hawthorn should pull out of poker machines. You think if you got rid of pokies then they would be better off. Not so, they’ll find something else to throw their money away on. It is how it is. Some people are just ******* hopeless with money and don’t know how to keep it.
That may be true, we don’t have to prey on that behaviour though.
Just cause we can , doesn’t mean we should.
 

Milkshaker

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Was at an 18th last night. Had a dollar in my pocket put it in a machine walking past and won $24 with one press. Not sure how the HFC make any coin? Took the win and bought a bottle of wine from their bottlo. :poo:might have to have a look at myself.

(Edit: true story by the way)
 
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