No Oppo Supporters Hawks and Pokies

[Flukey!]

He said the objective is to deliver it debt free. Whether the current forecasts currently align with that objective is another thing.

Semantics really.
You cant formulate an objective without having an understanding of the financials. That comes from forecasting.

Regardless, much kudos to Jeff and all at the club if we end up out of pokies and own outright a $100M asset at Dingley.
That puts us right at the top of the food chain which ever way you spin it.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

This news should really brighten up a lot of peoples days, I remember all the moaning and groaning at the 2019 AGM.

 

[cryptor]

Semantics really.
You cant formulate an objective without having an understanding of the financials. That comes from forecasting.

Regardless, much kudos to Jeff and all at the club if we end up out of pokies and own outright a $100M asset at Dingley.
That puts us right at the top of the food chain which ever way you spin it.

Not semantics at all. An objective is a fairly arbitrary thing while forecasting is data driven.

For example, the club could come out and say our objective is to win the flag this year. Mathematically it's still possible but any forecasts wouldn't currently support it. We'd need to make big moves and re-forecast with updated data to have those things align.

If the forecasting does currently support the objective of delivering KCC debt free then I agree, great work to all involved, but that's not what he stated.

 

[Flukey!]

Not semantics at all. An objective is a fairly arbitrary thing while forecasting is data driven.

For example, the club could come out and say our objective is to win the flag this year. Mathematically it's still possible but any forecasts wouldn't currently support it. We'd need to make big moves and re-forecast with updated data to have those things align.

If the forecasting does currently support the objective of delivering KCC debt free then I agree, great work to all involved, but that's not what he stated.

Nobody spends $100M without having an idea of what the net position will be at the end of it.
Regardless, next time I will just quote Verbatim.


And be happy for the club. We are in an amazing position.

 

[spudmaster]

Nobody spends $100M without having an idea of what the net position will be at the end of it.
Regardless, next time I will just quote Verbatim.


And be happy for the club. We are in an amazing position.

The people we're heading to the sausage sizzle polling booths for this weekend do exactly that!

 

[cryptor]

Nobody spends $100M without having an idea of what the net position will be at the end of it.
Regardless, next time I will just quote Verbatim.


And be happy for the club. We are in an amazing position.

I would agree that objective would have been deemed a realistic possibility if he's been willing to state it semi-publicly. Though who knows with Jeff. This is the same guy who publicly stated we'd entertain the idea of relocating to Tasmania. Given the economic climate and the relatively early stages of the project I interpreted it more as a commitment not to bury the club in crushing debt to deliver it. Which of course doesn't really roll off the tongue like "deliver debt free".

I'll certainly be happy if the club can deliver it debt free, regardless of who the club president is responsible.

 

[ahhhhhh]

Wh

I would agree that objective would have been deemed a realistic possibility if he's been willing to state it semi-publicly. Though who knows with Jeff. This is the same guy who publicly stated we'd entertain the idea of relocating to Tasmania. Given the economic climate and the relatively early stages of the project I interpreted it more as a commitment not to bury the club in crushing debt to deliver it. Which of course doesn't really roll off the tongue like "deliver debt free".

I'll certainly be happy if the club can deliver it debt free, regardless of who the club president is responsible.

What’s the obsession with debt free? More importantly I’d hope they have been conservative in their cash flow forecasting and strategic enough to ensure we have a new revenue stream to cover any interest payments if we do end up taking on a loan.

There was previously talk of diversifying our revenue streams, but I haven’t really heard of any new activities we are undertaking that would do so materially, unless I’m missing something?

My biggest worry with this current administration is they’ve had this notion of getting out of the pokies in front of them for years but have done nothing to ensure we will not be negatively impacted in the long run.

(I am fully supportive of getting out of pokies and think it should have been done sooner, this is a stab at the Kennett administration).

 

[cryptor]

Wh

What’s the obsession with debt free? More importantly I’d hope they have been conservative in their cash flow forecasting and strategic enough to ensure we have a new revenue stream to cover any interest payments if we do end up taking on a loan.

There was previously talk of diversifying our revenue streams, but I haven’t really heard of any new activities we are undertaking that would do so materially, unless I’m missing something?

My biggest worry with this current administration is they’ve had this notion of getting out of the pokies in front of them for years but have done nothing to ensure we will not be negatively impacted in the long run.

(I am fully supportive of getting out of pokies and think it should have been done sooner, this is a stab at the Kennett administration).

What do you mean "obsession"? The first I've heard of it in relation to the KCC project was in Jeff's email to members this morning. We've simply been discussing that.

I don't know about everyone else but I was always under the impression the club would be going into a bit of debt for this project but with the view of generating new revenue from the facilities and splitting operational costs with 3rd parties.

Delivering it debt free is great if that can be achieved without sacrificing too much on what is actually delivered. I wasn't expecting WestWaters to be sold to help fund it, but given it means we'd be seeing off the pokies I'm glad to see it.

 

[Lethality]

Is there any indication that they're selling the actual machines and not simply moving them to Dingley?

 

[Lethality]

Huge news. Massive day for the club to finally be rid of this scourge.

We've simply moved the scourge from pokies to online gambling. AFL isn't even interested in divestment from that.

 

[MrPremiership]

Is there any indication that they're selling the actual machines and not simply moving them to Dingley?

From the article:

As a board, we have been clear we would begin to move away from gaming, but only when we were confident it would not impact on the club financially, and when we could secure the best price.

That time is now for WestWaters.

They're not moving the pokies

 

[wahawk]

Wh

What’s the obsession with debt free? More importantly I’d hope they have been conservative in their cash flow forecasting and strategic enough to ensure we have a new revenue stream to cover any interest payments if we do end up taking on a loan.

There was previously talk of diversifying our revenue streams, but I haven’t really heard of any new activities we are undertaking that would do so materially, unless I’m missing something?

My biggest worry with this current administration is they’ve had this notion of getting out of the pokies in front of them for years but have done nothing to ensure we will not be negatively impacted in the long run.

How do you know that they’ve done nothing to ensure we will not be negatively impacted in the long run ?

We are widely known as one of the best run, profitable & asset rich clubs, yet people still want to think they’d make huge decisions on a whim.
I just don’t get the way some people think
I really don’t

 

[offtherails9]

Is getting rid of the pokies simply a PR move really? The machines are still in operation aren't they?

 

[ahhhhhh]

How do you know that they’ve done nothing to ensure we will not be negatively impacted in the long run ?

We are widely known as one of the best run, profitable & asset rich clubs, yet people still want to think they’d make huge decisions on a whim.
I just don’t get the way some people think
I really don’t

You would be surprised at how decisions are made at businesses much 'better run', 'more profitable' and 'asset rich' than Hawthorn. A lot of poorly put together 'models' in Excel based on data seriously lacking integrity and completely unrealistic assumptions.

My concerns stem from a letter (Jeff's letter to members: new appointment) about Radek Sali's appointment in 2018:

'Radek’s task will be to identify new business opportunities for Hawthorn that will generate either new revenue or capital gains for the club, or both. He will work closely with Tim Shearer our newest Board appointment until today’s announcement, given our challenge to finance our new world class training and administration facility.'

Based on a review of the revenue note in the financial statements since 2019 the only new revenue stream appears to be 'Consulting Fees', which I believe would relate to the management fee earned from the South East Melbourne Phoenix (Hawks to assist new NBL franchise). This fee started at $690k in 2019 and has since dropped to $400k in 2020 and 2021 which is approx. 0.8% and 0.7% of each year's total revenue respectively. If that is the extent of the 'identification of new business opportunities' during Jeff's tenure I'd be worried. It is also worth noting Radek has subsequently left the board.

I understand the last 2 years have been tough on all clubs due to COVID, however unless some new revenue stream materialises in the next few months I don't see how Management and the Board has prepared the club for the 18%* reduction in revenue in the long term as a result of the sale of pokies.

*Based on ave. FY20 and FY21 gaming and food & bistro rev as a percentage of overall rev.

 

[The Ghost Of Glenferrie]

It is if they tell us how much they sold it for

Reports suggest we made $85 million for the sale of Westwaters - if correct that goes along way to completely financing the Kennedy Community Centre:

https://www.theurbandeveloper.com/articles/hawthorn-westwaters-pub-sale

Money toward the project and the rest toward residual income from the club's Future Fund.

Anyone with a guess as to the value of Waverley Gardens?

 

[spudmaster]

Reports suggest we made $85 million for the sale of Westwaters - if correct that goes along way to completely financing the Kennedy Community Centre:

https://www.theurbandeveloper.com/articles/hawthorn-westwaters-pub-sale

Money toward the project and the rest toward residual income from the club's Future Fund.

Anyone with a guess as to the value of Waverley Gardens?

As a shopping centre? I'd want change from a $50!
Bring back my arcade machines area and cheap-arse cinemas, damnit!

 

[Steven Tyler]

Is getting rid of the pokies simply a PR move really? The machines are still in operation aren't they?

We don’t own them anymore as they’d belong to the venue I’d assume

 

[wahawk]

Is getting rid of the pokies simply a PR move really? The machines are still in operation aren't they?

So what.
Are we now going to take the arguments from ‘the club shouldn’t own pokies’ to ‘the club only sold them as a PR stunt’ ????
Seriously WTF can the club do ?

They own pokies = club with bad morals
They sell pokies = club doing PR stunt.

I seriously shake my head at some of the s**t posted on here.

 

[Randy Campbell]

Is getting rid of the pokies simply a PR move really? The machines are still in operation aren't they?

Ignorance is bliss.

 

[wahawk]

Ignorance is bliss.

It’s not ignorance.
Let’s hand back the licence to all these pokies & get nothing for them.
Yeah yeah, great idea.
In walks mr mathisen from Carlton footy club & buys those licences.

Yeah well done to Jeff & his s**t board, you’ve just put the clubs existence in jeopardy

Like I said above, I shake my head

 

[Flukey!]

You can't just give back a license that is valued at 10's of millions of dollars.
That would be the very definition of commercial insanity.
Good lord.

The state government would just sell it again anyway. Those machines were never going out of service because of the revenue they generate for the state.

The board has delivered the club a terrific windfall and removed a large part of its reliance on pokies.

It's a great day.

 

[theiaofseed]

It’s not ignorance.
Let’s hand back the licence to all these pokies & get nothing for them.
Yeah yeah, great idea.
In walks mr mathisen from Carlton footy club & buys those licences.

Yeah well done to Jeff & his s**t board, you’ve just put the clubs existence in jeopardy

Like I said above, I shake my head

You don't even know what Hawthorn got for the leasehold, so how can you trot out they've put the clubs existence in jeopardy

 

[wahawk]

You don't even know what Hawthorn got for the leasehold, so how can you trot out they've put the clubs existence in jeopardy

I think you are misunderstanding what context my post was in.

Btw, it’s reported we got 25/30 mil

Maybe read the posts above mine
You’ll see I was taking the piss

 

[Lethality]

So what.
Are we now going to take the arguments from ‘the club shouldn’t own pokies’ to ‘the club only sold them as a PR stunt’ ????
Seriously WTF can the club do ?

They own pokies = club with bad morals
They sell pokies = club doing PR stunt.

I seriously shake my head at some of the s**t posted on here.

They could destroy them.

 

[perrdan86]

They could destroy them.

What... as in make no money from selling them...