Autopsy Hawks defeat Dogs elimination final.

[Next Waiting]

I went to the game on my own, and that's OK, i wanted to be there. I wanted 3 tickets but could only get one. And, I was probably lucky.

I was sitting in a predominately Dogs area and, being on my own and able to hear neighbouring discussions, a thing struck me. We seem less and less able to enjoy things for what they are. I know we're invested in our teams success, but we're in a crowd of 97K watching 2 in form teams with everything on the line.

Of course, I'd rather Dear hadn't kicked that incredible goal in the first or second quarter, but still, as a footy fan, you had to marvel at the fact that he did. You had to appreciate the way and the speed at which the Hawks moved the ball. You had to admire Gunston's ability to keep taking those marks. And Lobby was good for us and Freijah has a big future.

But the tone of the conversations around me was soooo we're not doing this or not doing that, or Bevo should be sacked or we shouldn't have re-signed Timmy.

Sometimes I think the saturated media coverage has conditioned us to always look for faults and/or never be happy. I appreciated the occasion and I was hoping we'd win. We didn't. We looked the better side in the first quarter I thought, but definitely not after that.

Yes we should aspire to win, that should never change. But we should remember why we follow the game in the first place. Coz we love it, win, lose or draw.

 

[adogsfan5]

Was at the game. Watched replay.
Gee wiz - Newcombes goal in the second qtr - stoppage inside their 50, Treloar who has had an amazing season wouldn’t want to watch that vision again..

 

[threenewpadlocks]

I went to the game on my own, and that's OK, i wanted to be there. I wanted 3 tickets but could only get one. And, I was probably lucky.

I was sitting in a predominately Dogs area and, being on my own and able to hear neighbouring discussions, a thing struck me. We seem less and less able to enjoy things for what they are. I know we're invested in our teams success, but we're in a crowd of 97K watching 2 in form teams with everything on the line.

Of course, I'd rather Dear hadn't kicked that incredible goal in the first or second quarter, but still, as a footy fan, you had to marvel at the fact that he did. You had to appreciate the way and the speed at which the Hawks moved the ball. You had to admire Gunston's ability to keep taking those marks. And Lobby was good for us and Freijah has a big future.

But the tone of the conversations around me was soooo we're not doing this or not doing that, or Bevo should be sacked or we shouldn't have re-signed Timmy.

Sometimes I think the saturated media coverage has conditioned us to always look for faults and/or never be happy. I appreciated the occasion and I was hoping we'd win. We didn't. We looked the better side in the first quarter I thought, but definitely not after that.

Yes we should aspire to win, that should never change. But we should remember why we follow the game in the first place. Coz we love it, win, lose or draw.

The Bevo era has fundamentally changed the view of many Bulldogs fans that we're somehow entitled, or there's something metaphysical about the Dogs, that absolute success is inevitable, that not reaching the top 1 or 2 or 4 or 6 of 18 teams that are all trying their best in a somewhat equalised league is somehow a failure, (even though by definition more than half of the teams in the league fail to reach this league) as opposed to it's something that has to be scrapped for, and speaking about the club historically, we fail more often than we succeed.

The last time we played an elimination final at the MCG was in 2015, and I can't help but feel how different the attitudes of the fans were in attendance for each game, despite the material facts being identical - in both cases we carried some good second-half-of-the-season form into an EF loss as a result of some outstanding opposiiton play in a high-quality game and a chance to reload for the following year.

I'm glad our team has improved and I am glad for all the success we've had to be able to enjoy far more wins than losses and a premiership in the last 10 years, but in a way, part of me wants us to finish bottom 4 for a few years just so we can realign expectations to something that I feel is not even more insane.

Given that our path to the GF would have involved two interstate, away games, we probably weren't making the GF anyway, even if we were the best team in the league. That's fine. It's somewhat ironic, and hard for emotions to handle, that sometimes you can win flags without clearly being the best team in it (like we did in 2016) and sometimes you can fail to win it that youi're the best team in it (like many people rated us heading into finals).

 

[dogwatch]

I went to the game on my own, and that's OK, i wanted to be there. I wanted 3 tickets but could only get one. And, I was probably lucky.

I was sitting in a predominately Dogs area and, being on my own and able to hear neighbouring discussions, a thing struck me. We seem less and less able to enjoy things for what they are. I know we're invested in our teams success, but we're in a crowd of 97K watching 2 in form teams with everything on the line.

Of course, I'd rather Dear hadn't kicked that incredible goal in the first or second quarter, but still, as a footy fan, you had to marvel at the fact that he did. You had to appreciate the way and the speed at which the Hawks moved the ball. You had to admire Gunston's ability to keep taking those marks. And Lobby was good for us and Freijah has a big future.

But the tone of the conversations around me was soooo we're not doing this or not doing that, or Bevo should be sacked or we shouldn't have re-signed Timmy.

Sometimes I think the saturated media coverage has conditioned us to always look for faults and/or never be happy. I appreciated the occasion and I was hoping we'd win. We didn't. We looked the better side in the first quarter I thought, but definitely not after that.

Yes we should aspire to win, that should never change. But we should remember why we follow the game in the first place. Coz we love it, win, lose or draw.

TBF I reckon most footy fans are like that when their side is struggling or inconsistent.

I've been to Bulldog games where we have dominated and everyone loves it and is very cocky.

It's just the way partisan sports fans are.

 

[maddog37]

Was at the game. Watched replay.
Gee wiz - Newcombes goal in the second qtr - stoppage inside their 50, Treloar who has had an amazing season wouldn’t want to watch that vision again..

Treloar was not fit imho.

Gambled and lost.

 

[PurpJuice]

Was at the game. Watched replay.
Gee wiz - Newcombes goal in the second qtr - stoppage inside their 50, Treloar who has had an amazing season wouldn’t want to watch that vision again..

Treloar was injured, could barely run. Why was he played?

 

[CarnTheScray]

I went to the game on my own, and that's OK, i wanted to be there. I wanted 3 tickets but could only get one. And, I was probably lucky.

I was sitting in a predominately Dogs area and, being on my own and able to hear neighbouring discussions, a thing struck me. We seem less and less able to enjoy things for what they are. I know we're invested in our teams success, but we're in a crowd of 97K watching 2 in form teams with everything on the line.

Of course, I'd rather Dear hadn't kicked that incredible goal in the first or second quarter, but still, as a footy fan, you had to marvel at the fact that he did. You had to appreciate the way and the speed at which the Hawks moved the ball. You had to admire Gunston's ability to keep taking those marks. And Lobby was good for us and Freijah has a big future.

But the tone of the conversations around me was soooo we're not doing this or not doing that, or Bevo should be sacked or we shouldn't have re-signed Timmy.

Sometimes I think the saturated media coverage has conditioned us to always look for faults and/or never be happy. I appreciated the occasion and I was hoping we'd win. We didn't. We looked the better side in the first quarter I thought, but definitely not after that.

Yes we should aspire to win, that should never change. But we should remember why we follow the game in the first place. Coz we love it, win, lose or draw.

I think the simpler explanation, and the one that is actually based on fact rather than how you feel about the vibe of things and the sayings of individuals, is that people are tired of watching us play an extremely soft brand of football almost every time we make finals.

I don't have to show public appreciation for Hawthorn at all. Did Dear kick a great goal? Yes. Did they completely destroy us in the middle and move the ball with speed? Yes. I've also watched Buddy Franklin kick bags on us. I've also watched us lose from 40 points up in a final.

I can acknowledge those things but I am not there to watch Hawthorn succeed, I am there to watch us succeed.

 

[Libbaaaa]

Only downside of playing at the G in a final is the fact AFL reserve and MCC exists, so silly. Anyway got spanked and next year really is a make or break year for the club.

 

[MaxiBont]

The Bevo era has fundamentally changed the view of many Bulldogs fans that we're somehow entitled, or there's something metaphysical about the Dogs, that absolute success is inevitable, that not reaching the top 1 or 2 or 4 or 6 of 18 teams that are all trying their best in a somewhat equalised league is somehow a failure, (even though by definition more than half of the teams in the league fail to reach this league) as opposed to it's something that has to be scrapped for, and speaking about the club historically, we fail more often than we succeed.

The last time we played an elimination final at the MCG was in 2015, and I can't help but feel how different the attitudes of the fans were in attendance for each game, despite the material facts being identical - in both cases we carried some good second-half-of-the-season form into an EF loss as a result of some outstanding opposiiton play in a high-quality game and a chance to reload for the following year.

I'm glad our team has improved and I am glad for all the success we've had to be able to enjoy far more wins than losses and a premiership in the last 10 years, but in a way, part of me wants us to finish bottom 4 for a few years just so we can realign expectations to something that I feel is not even more insane.

Given that our path to the GF would have involved two interstate, away games, we probably weren't making the GF anyway, even if we were the best team in the league. That's fine. It's somewhat ironic, and hard for emotions to handle, that sometimes you can win flags without clearly being the best team in it (like we did in 2016) and sometimes you can fail to win it that youi're the best team in it (like many people rated us heading into finals).

This is such a weak attitude.

We have one of the best players of the last decade, a gun midfield, some great KPFs and statistically the best defence in the league.

Attitudes have changed because the team is better. Why should expectations be lower than a premiership and why do we need to revalue our expectations? The best part of being a fan is having belief that you can win it all.

 

[TommyD13]

Kane Cornes on the money again on TRSF and Sunday Footy Show.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

This is such a weak attitude.

We have one of the best players of the last decade, a gun midfield, some great KPFs and statistically the best defence in the league.

Attitudes have changed because the team is better. Why should are expectations be lower than a premiership and why do we need to revalue our expectations? The best part of being a fan is having belief that you can win it all.

But at some point there's no such thing as underperformance or overperformance and performance is performance.

What's to say that the quality of our players this year is any better than that of 2015?

 

[_Mike_]

What's to say that the quality of our players this year is any better than that of 2015?

Defensively the structure this season has been weak on a player based aspect. Yes they did well to limit the opposition scoring although that was due to the defensive efforts of players like Williams, Richards, Dale and Jones

We’d have a very different outcome with the 2015 versions of Morris, Murphy, Boyd, & Wood playing in defence now

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Defensively the structure this season has been weak on a player based aspect. Yes they did well to limit the opposition scoring although that was due to the defensive efforts of players like Williams, Richards, Dale and Jones

We’d have a very different outcome with the 2015 versions of Morris, Murphy, Boyd, & Wood playing in defence now

Yep. People are very quick to point out our low points against tally (which is fair enough) but it's not due to last-line defending from the defensive unit - we were actually below average in opposition shots per inside 50 in the league, which suggests that preventing inside 50s (which is largely the midfield) was responsible for the points against tally.

Jones' poor one-on-one efforts and not getting any younger highlighted that this season

 

[Sharpiesadog]

But at some point there's no such thing as underperformance or overperformance and performance is performance.

What's to say that the quality of our players this year is any better than that of 2015?

My annoyance regarding Friday is not because we lost, or to do with the quality of our players.

I posted before the game I was nervous. On the train on the way to the ground, my son and I discussed why we were nervous.

It comes down to this:

We were worried about team selection (no Macrae etc)
We were worried about English in the ruck
We were worried that Caleb Daniel had made his way back into the team and would be found out in a final
We were worried that Sicily and Newcombe would have great games because we never seem to try and stop the opposition.
There are other things, I can’t be bothered to list them all.

Most of the things we were concerned about came true, and we lost.

If this was a one off occurrence, or we had a crack and just lost, so be it.

What really annoys me, is that this was all highly predictable. We have been watching the same crap dished up under this coach for years. Nothing changes, learnings aren’t taken, game plans don’t get adjusted.

It’s not good enough, we are wasting a good list and I’m sick of it.

 

[Next Waiting]

I think the simpler explanation, and the one that is actually based on fact rather than how you feel about the vibe of things and the sayings of individuals, is that people are tired of watching us play an extremely soft brand of football almost every time we make finals.

I don't have to show public appreciation for Hawthorn at all. Did Dear kick a great goal? Yes. Did they completely destroy us in the middle and move the ball with speed? Yes. I've also watched Buddy Franklin kick bags on us. I've also watched us lose from 40 points up in a final.

I can acknowledge those things but I am not there to watch Hawthorn succeed, I am there to watch us succeed.

I'm there hoping we succeed but above all for the finals footy experience. The finals footy experience holds the twin and simultaneous possibilities of glorious wins and devastating losses. Of living for one more week or thinking about next year.

I lived it this year. Sure, it wasn't what I hoped for, but we gave ourselves a chance.

The day that we exist to win premierships becomes our mantra is the day the sport, any sport, is lost to me. We aspire to win premierships, as do 17 other clubs. It's very difficult to do. So much has to go right. Valleys and peaks. You can't truly appreciate one without the other.

 

[Next Waiting]

This is such a weak attitude.

We have one of the best players of the last decade, a gun midfield, some great KPFs and statistically the best defence in the league.

Attitudes have changed because the team is better. Why should are expectations be lower than a premiership and why do we need to revalue our expectations? The best part of being a fan is having belief that you can win it all.

For me, the substitution of expectation for aspiration makes a difference. It's unrealistic to expect to win every game or expect to win the premiership every year. But it's more than reasonable to aspire to do so.

Expectation is the mother of disappointment. Aspiration the father of achievement.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

For me, the substitution of expectation for aspiration makes a difference. It's unrealistic to expect to win every game or expect to win the premiership every year. But it's more than reasonable to aspire to do so.

Expectation is the mother of disappointment. Aspiration the father of achievement.

No, it's weak to point out that expectation and aspiration is different. Stop being weak.

 

[Libbaaaa]

Kane Cornes on the money again on TRSF and Sunday Footy Show.

I actually like Kane, but the best list in football stuff is just not true.

 

[geoffjennings79]

Fans still aren't good at recongising home ground advantage for what it is - not travel but ground familiarity and fan influence.

"I'm smart, everyone else isn't. Let me try and justify that with one of my biggest straw man claims yet..."

The Bevo era has fundamentally changed the view of many Bulldogs fans that we're somehow entitled, or there's something metaphysical about the Dogs, that absolute success is inevitable, that not reaching the top 1 or 2 or 4 or 6 of 18 teams that are all trying their best in a somewhat equalised league is somehow a failure, (even though by definition more than half of the teams in the league fail to reach this league) as opposed to it's something that has to be scrapped for, and speaking about the club historically, we fail more often than we succeed.

The last time we played an elimination final at the MCG was in 2015, and I can't help but feel how different the attitudes of the fans were in attendance for each game, despite the material facts being identical - in both cases we carried some good second-half-of-the-season form into an EF loss as a result of some outstanding opposiiton play in a high-quality game and a chance to reload for the following year.

I'm glad our team has improved and I am glad for all the success we've had to be able to enjoy far more wins than losses and a premiership in the last 10 years, but in a way, part of me wants us to finish bottom 4 for a few years just so we can realign expectations to something that I feel is not even more insane.

Given that our path to the GF would have involved two interstate, away games, we probably weren't making the GF anyway, even if we were the best team in the league. That's fine. It's somewhat ironic, and hard for emotions to handle, that sometimes you can win flags without clearly being the best team in it (like we did in 2016) and sometimes you can fail to win it that youi're the best team in it (like many people rated us heading into finals).

Hindsight, irony and more rash generalisations and ascribing opinions to unidentifiable but collective "fans", based on a couple of random comments on an internet forum.

This could be one of your best efforts yet, well done.
3/10

 

[doggie dog]

Bottom line, we are a soft football side. We are weak.

That weakness extends to the coaches box where it seems all cuddles and love when what we really need is foots up arses.

Tonight was unforgivable. That was the most insipid performance of the season and how that can be rolled out in a cut throat final is beyond my grasp.

A ruthless club would just about trade Ugle Hagan after that performance, English was soft again, Naughton rarely sighted and the amount of times we were easily pushed out of the contest made my blood boil.

They spread and had (were given) acres of space. They flipped the ball around and were much harder.

Will we do anything about it? Course not. We'll drift through the trade and draft period, minimal change and expect better results next year.

We're a middling side right now and unless there's proper change, we're not going anywhere. It's crap.

Sick of the touchy feely BS, when are we going to stop accepting mediocrity?

I agree with a lot of what you are saying mate

We had 2 weeks 2 prepare for the Hawks spread, which they have been doing all year.
But we looked lost when it happened, Just poor coaching.

When the camera panned to the coaches box, they looked lost. It's as if we have no Plan B/C/ or D when the game isn't going our way.

Stastically we are a middling team.
In the last 10 years we haven't finished above 5th, and outside of 2016/2021 not won a final.
I still love the dogs, and we have a team that beat the Blues/Cats/Swans/Demons in consecutive weeks, but we need a new coaching panel, and a sports psychology unit that can help the players be mentally prepared for the pressure of AFL footy.
We fold too easily when the going gets tough.

 

[St 07]

I agree with a lot of what you are saying mate

We had 2 weeks 2 prepare for the Hawks spread, which they have been doing all year.
But we looked lost when it happened, Just poor coaching.

When the camera panned to the coaches box, they looked lost. It's as if we have no Plan B/C/ or D when the game isn't going our way.

Stastically we are a middling team.
In the last 10 years we haven't finished above 5th, and outside of 2016/2021 not won a final.
I still love the dogs, and we have a team that beat the Blues/Cats/Swans/Demons in consecutive weeks, but we need a new coaching panel, and a sports psychology unit that can help the players be mentally prepared for the pressure of AFL footy.
We fold too easily when the going gets tough.

When need our players to act like bullies, not admirable dogs

 

[doggie dog]

When need our players to act like bullies, not admirable dogs

I don't think we need to bullies, my most hated player in the AFL is Toby Greene, and the dogs don't need to stoop that low.
But we have to be mentally stronger and hard at the ball for 4 quarters, and we need a coaching group that will bring that out in the team.

 

[_Mike_]

I'm still baffled by the Harmes selection

you're not alone on that one

 

[glenashley]

It was 50/50 in the 55,000 odd seats that weren't the AFL Members and MCC. AFL Members would have been 80/20 Hawks and MCC would have been 90/10 Hawks. So about 65k Hawks fans and 35k Dogs fans.

That's the issue with teams who have the G as a home ground. MCC and AFL members are great spots to watch the game and well worth the cost. They'll always have a proportionately higher number of members in those areas.

I'm an AFL member but the Docklands afl reserve seating is pretty average on level 1 (I just can't watch a game from level 1) so you end up in level 3 GA.

 

[Dogs Rule]

That's the issue with teams who have the G as a home ground. MCC and AFL members are great spots to watch the game and well worth the cost. They'll always have a proportionately higher number of members in those areas.

I'm an AFL member but the Docklands afl reserve seating is pretty average on level 1 (I just can't watch a game from level 1) so you end up in level 3 GA.

Tell you why I gave up my MCC membership about 15 years ago. It was because we so rarely played there and for $1000 a year back then I was actually paying about $250-$300 a match plus occasional final to make it more worthwhile. It's crazy how little we play there.