List Mgmt. Hawks Major List Problems

[Pessimistic]

My glaring need is still an A grade mid.
If Mitchell goes down we are screwed. We have the capacity to cover & probably do ok in his absence but it’s the players that come in & the role changes that are the killer.

We’ve obviously had progression of a couple of the young guys but that only gets you so far & there are always inconsistencies. Clarko knows this & Im sure that’s why we had our hat in the ring for Sloane.

There is stop gap cover on the list but there has to be a Shiel, Gaff, Beams addition to the side as a minimum. Anything on top of that is a bonus.

Big forward.... meh... if there is to be a rule change or not I’d like to think that we have the cattle to run a mobile & direct forward structure off the back of winning 60-65% in the midfield.

We have a stingy defence anyway. I think it will improve next year again but we should certainly be looking at a KPD for the Chip transition or stop gap import.

Yep, it’s the roughy, burger, chip replacement, sadly

 

[MasterSamurai]

During pre-season, I posted our best 22 on the main board and said that we’d finish around Top 4. Most ridiculed this prediction but once they saw my Best 22 in my follow up post, a fair few of the oppo posters were surprised at how strong we looked on paper. Now, admittedly I had Birch and Cyril in there but we are NOT that deprived of talent as people make it.
Where are we weaker than pies? Not frwd or back imo, maybe inside mids but we keep handing their arses to them!
WCE? If Kennedy wasn’t so cooked , NicNat wasn’t injured then maybe but our mids are better , our defense is on par and frwd line just as dangerous and talented.
Teams below us ? Well, they finished below us, so we’re on par or thereabouts except for GWS’ inside/outside mids.
That leaves Tigers, who 12 months a go weren’t considered anything above Top 6 and had 4 elites.
I’m not worried about where we’re heading and I believe our ‘Catapult into greatness’ starts this finals series!!!
Even if we lose to tiggers , I’m still giving us a HUGE chance to make it going the long way around and meet them again in the GF!!
We just need our players to be fresh and have huge belief and the rest will be what’ll be!

 

[grumbleguts]

In recent years we have been unwilling to make changes to our list because of the success we have had from 2011-2015 and this has led us to have an ageing list, list cloggers and a lack of youth to invest in for the next generation of Hawthorn Players

Problem 1) Ageing List, with the list we have now in 2019 we will have 8 players over 30 years of age and 17 players over the age of 28 with 16 under 23 and 12 in the important age group of 23-27!!!!!

Problem 2) List Cloggers, some players at best are ok and at worst are disasters waiting to happen, if you get them on a good day they will play ok, but never well, they just get by and if they dont have a good day can cost you goals, turn overs, make others drop their heads ect, or worse prevent an actually good player from getting a game, our list cloggers are (Schoenmakers, Whitecross, Langford, O'Brien, Brand, O'Rourke, Heatherley, Miles, Lovell, Willsmore)

Problem 3) Veterans, our Veterans have been champions for the club and we all love them, but there are so many of them its becoming an issue, because of our lack of foresight we have very few players in our starting 22 that arent in the veteran category, meaning we dont have a team in 2-3 years time, Injuries and form are hurting us seeing as we're so reliant on our Veterans - Injury (Burgoyne, Birchall) personal issues (Rioli) poor form (Roughead, Frawley, Henderson, Duryea) not good enough (Schoenmakers, Whitecross, Mirra?)

Problem 4) Youngsters not getting opportunities, the match committee is so short sighted, focusing on trying to get a win now (which is failing btw), that they are robbing the future to try and succeed today, the problem is, they arent succeeding today which is compounding the problem, with the lack of young talent capable at the level and the ones that are like Worpel not getting opportunities, this area of our list will end up putting our club in the dirt in a few years, this incompetence cant be allowed to continue unchecked.

Problem 5) Weak List, poor management, over a dozen players on our list have no purpose other than to be stop gap players, meaning they arent even role players, they are there because we have no-one else, a role player is like Stratton or Shiels or Puopolo who play their roles to a high standard, a s**t player is like Whitecross who does nothing and is a stop gap useless player.

players who could be gone by next year are:

Burgoyne - old, injured, possibly slowing down, 36
Roughead - out of contract, theres talk he wants to retire at 32?
Birchall - injury plagued for 2 1/2 years, 31
Frawley - migraines and injured a lot, 30
Rioli - might walk away from the game for family and personal reasons???
Henderson - out of contract, can only play half a season, 30
Schoenmakers - has never been a good player and seems out of favour
Whitecross - not AFL Standard
Langford - not AFL Standard
O'Brien - not AFL Standard
Brand - not AFL Standard
O'Rourke - not AFL Standard
Heatherley - not AFL Standard
Miles - not AFL Standard
Lovell - not AFL Standard
Willsmore - not AFL Standard

16 players with question marks over their future, thats why we have a weak list, you could argue Rioli will be back, but i dont know that, Frawley will probably go on, the other 14? i have no idea what to do with....

the question that needs to be asked is who has allowed this list to be managed so poorly over the last 3-5 years? this is an absolute disgrace.....

This post has not aged well in some respects. Kudos for trying though.

 

[threesixpio]

This post has not aged well in some respects. Kudos for trying though.

I definitely flirted with all of the above thoughts during this season. I may have even “liked” a post like that his after a Brissy loss

 

[hawkermitch]

The delisting of Harry Dear by the Crows is an interesting one.
Paul Dear was a late developer so I wouldn't mind throwing Harry a lifeline to help KP and ruck stocks.
If he is like his dad he could be great in a year or two, worth thinking about by those in list management.

 

[The Chad and I]

Out: Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis
In: Mitchell, O'Meara, Wingard

Some are adamant that we paid too much for O'Meara and Wingard (effectively 2x1st round picks), but that doesn't take into consideration the probability of success with top ten picks, let alone first round picks.

Buddy (5), Roughy (2), Lewis (7) for Ellis (3), Dowler (6), Thorp (6).
Plus we didn't have to wait 4-5 years for them to hit their peak and their abilities at senior level had already been established.

Rioli's retirement is the one that hurts IMO.
Just too soon for the Little Maestro™

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

We really need Mitchell Lewis to come on and be a 200 game player and go after a key defender the next FA period. Not sure on Brand, Frawley looks like he is heading towards a cliff quickly and Kosi may take a few years to get ready, if he makes the grade at all...

 

[Pessimistic]

We really need Mitchell Lewis to come on and be a 200 game player and go after a key defender the next FA period. Not sure on Brand, Frawley looks like he is heading towards a cliff quickly and Kosi may take a few years to get ready, if he makes the grade at all...

Yes. but sometimes you need two gorillas and sometimes one, depending on opponent

Ideally Youd have a top FB, a top FF, a top swing and one or two up and comers

What we have is:
- Good but ageing FB Frawley, FF Roughy
- Journeyman HB Mohr, Brand HF Schoenmakers
--Rucks/swing McEvoy, Ceglar, Pittonet, O'Brien
- Potential Young KPB Kosi, KPF Lewis
- Smaller but Elite swing Gunston, Sicily
- Tall or Small Back Stratton

So we'll have to mix and match. one saving is none of these would expect to be absolute walk up starts (except last three)

 

[tommyk72]

Yes. but sometimes you need two gorillas and sometimes one, depending on opponent

Ideally Youd have a top FB, a top FF, a top swing and one or two up and comers

What we have is:
- Good but ageing FB Frawley, FF Roughy
- Journeyman HB Mohr, Brand HF Schoenmakers
--Rucks/swing McEvoy, Ceglar, Pittonet, O'Brien
- Potential Young KPB Kosi, KPF Lewis
- Smaller but Elite swing Gunston, Sicily
- Tall or Small Back Stratton

So we'll have to mix and match. one saving is none of these would expect to be absolute walk up starts (except last three)

I'd be shifting Brand into potential young. Also Echoey to Swing, in front of O'b. Small back hardwick?

 

[Jane Doe]

The delisting of Harry Dear by the Crows is an interesting one.
Paul Dear was a late developer so I wouldn't mind throwing Harry a lifeline to help KP and ruck stocks.
If he is like his dad he could be great in a year or two, worth thinking about by those in list management.

Currently travelling around America. Unfortunately pretty sure he has lost his passion for the game at the highest level

 

[Lethality]

I wish we'd draft more. Guys like Worpel and Morrison show that you can still get ready made players as well as youth at the same time.

 

[arupist]

I wish we'd draft more. Guys like Worpel and Morrison show that you can still get ready made players as well as youth at the same time.

Mate you really have to change that avatar. At first glance I see blue and white and immediately think we have an interloper or you have lost a bet to a handbagger.

 

[Mitchell54]

Anyone keen on Jackson Edwards?
Think he could be a good option. Has relocated to SA in order to be mentored by Lleyton Hewitt in an effort to try and make it at the highest level. I think this shows he’s determined to do the hard yards to get a long lasting professional career. Can’t go terribly with those with great work rates can you.

I’m not an expert but I thought I’d raise the idea.

 

[Millsie69]

Anyone keen on Jackson Edwards?
Think he could be a good option. Has relocated to SA in order to be mentored by Lleyton Hewitt in an effort to try and make it at the highest level. I think this shows he’s determined to do the hard yards to get a long lasting professional career. Can’t go terribly with those with great work rates can you.

I’m not an expert but I thought I’d raise the idea.

He’s trash mate. Only picked up cos he was Tyson’s son.

 

[burger09]

In one off season, our 'major list problems', have become 'we need a key forward'.

Wright is magician.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

In one off season, our 'major list problems', have become 'we need a key forward'.

Wright is magician.

Still need a key defender and another A grade mid also.

 

[burger09]

Still need a key defender and another A grade mid also.

Maybe. More icing than desperate need.

We did add 2 A grade mids in chad and scully and have some younger types who should improve (we won'tbe saying no to cogs though). Our full back was very capable in a premiership side. (He will need replacing within 2 years though)

 

[TylerDurden]

Acquiring Cogs will fast track things. Key there is FA status. Means we get a gun and keep our first pick for once. We need to be bringing in quality youth at the same time.

 

[Mitchell54]

We need to be bringing in quality youth at the same time.

You make it sound so easy!

 

[Bumps"N"Grins]

You make it sound so easy!

It just about is when you have the right and proven development systems, this is the main reason third rounders at the hawks make it and why 1st rounders fail at clubs already failing.
Going to be great when we start taking early picks again.

 

[Pessimistic]

Read today saints have had one pick inside three rounds in this draft and will have the same next year. Oh the Ironing

They must have traded in a couple of superstars then?

 

[Deleted member 170709]

Acquiring Cogs will fast track things. Key there is FA status. Means we get a gun and keep our first pick for once. We need to be bringing in quality youth at the same time.

Article in AFL today.. it seems it's happening!

The Hawks are sure to again be major players in the exchange period, and Waverley Park is already being mentioned as a potential landing point for Giants free agent Stephen Coniglio.
Part of that owes to Coniglio being best mates with fellow West Australian O'Meara, who is yet to begin negotiations on a new contract, with his three-year deal after crossing from Gold Coast set to expire.
Hawthorn should have cash to burn – although that isn't four-time premiership coach Alastair Clarkson's style – after failing to lure Rory Sloane, Tom Lynch, Steven May and Dylan Shiel this year.

 

[Brant]

We really need Mitchell Lewis to come on and be a 200 game player and go after a key defender the next FA period. Not sure on Brand, Frawley looks like he is heading towards a cliff quickly and Kosi may take a few years to get ready, if he makes the grade at all...

Don't even really need him to be a 200 game player.

I'd rather he kicked 200 goals a year for the next 4 years then go into coaching!

 

[Hodginator]

Just saw this on FB and this thread seemed as good a place as any to add it. (Note: I'm not responsible for the accuracy)

Hawthorn have 28 players out-of-contract at the end of 2019

Grant Birchall, Shaun Burgoyne, Jon Ceglar, James Cousins, James Frawley, Conor Glass, Will Golds, Damon Greaves, Blake Hardwick, Ricky Henderson, Changkuoth Jiath, Harrison Jones, Ben McEvoy, Teia Miles, Darren Minchington, David Mirra, Tim Mohr, Dylan Moore, Tim O'Brien, Jaeger O'Meara, Marc Pittonet, Paul Puopolo, Jackson Ross, Jarryd Roughead, Ryan Schoenmakers, Liam Shiels, Ben Stratton, James Worpel

 

[Brant]

Our major list problem is that we're only allowed to select 22 for Game Day...