Hawks' scoring issues.

rogiebear93

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May 17, 2017
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brisbane have been rebuilding for quite some time, and seem to have a solid coaching group so it's no surprise they have good youth. They may suffer from the "go home" effect in a few years however, can never rule that out especially for the northern teams.

Port adelaide meh, yes they've got good players in the draft but people forget how players can look promising early and fall away. Seems like everyone has just penciled in that all port's draftees are bonified guns and will be for a long time. Wait and see on that one in a few years.

Gold Coast, yes but they are probably going to continue to struggle with having to pay overs to keep average players at the club. If they can get manage to get their salaries normal then I have heaps of faith in stewy dew to bring the crop of youngsters up well.

Richmond for mine have really really really drafted well, so much so I'd say they've extended their premiership window 2/3 years longer.

Stack, Castagna, Higgins, Ross, Bolton, Balta, Baker are all serious players, even keeping a Rioli out of the side.
Richmond are a gameplan team.

Stack, Higgins, Ross and Balta are all good players. Bolton is greedy and plays like he's already a superstar, Castagna and Baker are both battlers that are good for Richmond's game plan.

That's the point really. Richmond have got a game plan that works for their players, we don't yet. The talent gap definitely isn't that big, at all. The talent gap between the best side in the comp and the worst isn't even that big, it's all continuity, confidence and game plan.

Look at Carlton, if all players are available they have a really good side bursting with some good young talent.
 
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joeyhawker

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The main difference with now as against our threepeat years is we no longer chip it around outside the fifty and then spot up a short target.
THIS View attachment 685870
Is where most of our 50 entries need to come from.
I'm not sure if anyone noticed in the 3rd quarter at one stage we had 3 or 4 entries (from marks or free kicks) where we kicked to the top of the square from about 70m out yet on every occasion there was a heap of space 30-40 out with plenty of space to lead in. Very stagnant forward line with no leading patterns.

On Phone 2 using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

Carl Spackler

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I'm not sure if anyone noticed in the 3rd quarter at one stage we had 3 or 4 entries (from marks or free kicks) where we kicked to the top of the square from about 70m out yet on every occasion there was a heap of space 30-40 out with plenty of space to lead in. Very stagnant forward line with no leading patterns.

On Phone 2 using BigFooty.com mobile app
Yes, I think our forward line patterns are very unimaginative. How would I improve them? I have no idea, but it's pretty apparent that they are easy to defend and even when there is plenty of time to kick that the midfield rarely delivers laces out. I'm not sure if it's because our forward line lacks a big Rough that can disrupt opposition setups, lacks imagination when running or is understaffed because they are sacrificing small forwards to the midfield battle.

But regardless of the reason, the forward line is not befuddling defenses. Our opposition consistently has us covered up front.
 

4THAWN

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Mar 25, 2019
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Richmond are a gameplan team.

Stack, Higgins, Ross and Balta are all good players. Bolton is greedy and plays like he's already a superstar, Castagna and Baker are both battlers that are good for Richmond's game plan.

That's the point really. Richmond have got a game plan that works for their players, we don't yet. The talent gap definitely isn't that big, at all. The talent gap between the best side in the comp and the worst isn't even that big, it's all continuity, confidence and game plan.

Look at Carlton, if all players are available they have a really good side bursting with some good young talent.
Bolton is a jet mate, castagna is the benchmark pressure player in the competition without doubt, baker has improved in leaps and bounds this year.

Agreed, talent gap is closing in the competition. But still think Richmond have potentially taken the mantle from us as draft kings.
 

rogiebear93

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Bolton is a jet mate, castagna is the benchmark pressure player in the competition without doubt, baker has improved in leaps and bounds this year.

Agreed, talent gap is closing in the competition. But still think Richmond have potentially taken the mantle from us as draft kings.
Based on averages:

Castagna doesn't rank in the top 25 for forwards in tackling, tackling I50 or pressure acts among forwards.

Baker ranks 19th for Tackles and 20th for Pressure Acts.

Puopolo ranks 6th for Pressure Acts, 2nd for Tackles inside 50 and 14th for Tackles.

In terms of what you'd want from a small forward, you'd hope that they get the ground ball, apply pressure, kick goals and use the ball intelligently. Bolton is average or below average in literally all of those things.

They're sticking to a game plan, which is the most important thing, but they're by no means "draft steals" beyond what a bunch of other clubs are getting.
 

Brant

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I'm not sure if anyone noticed in the 3rd quarter at one stage we had 3 or 4 entries (from marks or free kicks) where we kicked to the top of the square from about 70m out yet on every occasion there was a heap of space 30-40 out with plenty of space to lead in. Very stagnant forward line with no leading patterns.

On Phone 2 using BigFooty.com mobile app
We definitely need a 26-27 year old, 198cm-199cm Full Forward (with a history of bad knees, but who has since dropped weight & re-habbed at our Club facilities under the eye of our Club Doctor) to charge out of the Goal Square into that space, causing defenders to panic & be in 2x minds as to whether they leave their man to assist or to let him mark on the lead.

Any ideas???:think:
 

AlwaysHawks15

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Nov 12, 2014
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There's only 3 sides who haven't kicked the ton this year and we are 1 of them. Swans and Gold Coast the other 2. They both have defence first game plans like us but we have the superior forward line to both. At least on paper. It's frustrating to watch us piss away opportunities to score with brain dead entries week after week. It's become the norm now, I tune out regularly when we play because it's so unimaginative. Of course I want us to win but it's like pulling teeth.
 

SuperSic

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Oct 16, 2018
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I think this screenshot of the game against Brisbane sums up every Hawthorn fan’s frustration in 2019

Image1559655651.868388.jpg


Our FOUR deepest forwards are Smith, Puopolo, Wingard and Scully... yep I’m just as confused as you. WTF!

Surely the coaching staff aren’t instructing the tall marking forwards to stay out of the forward 50 and telling Isaac Smith and Puopolo to be our deepest forwards? But it is happening so often I’m really starting to wonder.

If it isn’t the game plan then the players really need to switch on, especially senior players like Smith, Gunston and Puopolo! They should know better and be helping someone like Mitch Lewis.

If Lewis is in Smith’s position then this entry likely ends up in a mark and goal. I hope this changes after the bye, it seems like an easy thing to fix.
 

SuperSic

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Your agile to quickest players will always be running back into the forward line thats the modern game. Its our ability to link up and find targets on transition that sucks. When we do we look great
Okay fair point but Smith and Puopolo aren’t running back into goal, they’re plonked in there waiting for a high bomb, trying to outmuscle defenders 1-on-1. This is where the frustration lies and you’re right, our ability to find linking targets is apalling at times.

The goals in the first quarter were textbook examples of what we’re trying to do - when Wingard and Bruest kicked those goals out the back. But too often this season it hasn’t worked out that way.

Perhaps our forwards need to adjust the pace at which they run back to goal. Because at the moment it seems like they’re beating the ball to the forward 50 and hence we end up bombing it on their head. If they wait a bit longer then maybe this will help us to find transition targets too.
 

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LuckyHawk

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We've either got no one in F50 or because we are all up the ground or ball movement is so
slow there's a dozen defenders waiting to pounce. The happy medium just isn't happening
enough.
 

yeahmate

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Correct me if I'm wrong but I assumed the players must be instructed not to lead across the middle running towards the ball carrier in the forward line as it very rarely happens. Seems our game plan is to either get goals out the back by fast running back with the flight or else lead to a pocket and cause a forward stoppage.
 

Gaston

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We've either got no one in F50 or because we are all up the ground or ball movement is so
slow there's a dozen defenders waiting to pounce. The happy medium just isn't happening
enough.
We play too conservative with fear of being burnt on the turn over.
Our season is over, the shackles should be released and allow players to play on impulse and instinct.
Who cares about ladder position when your out of the 8?
 

tommyk72

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We play too conservative with fear of being burnt on the turn over.
Our season is over, the shackles should be released and allow players to play on impulse and instinct.
Who cares about ladder position when your out of the 8?
Disagree entirely. That's a wasted 11 weeks in my opinion. The next 11 should be about drilling our boys in the structures that we will use to win us the next flag. All of them can run around and kick and play on instinct. It's learning the structures that is harder. 11 weeks of disciplined, well structured footy will put us a big step forward for next year. More experience for all sorts of players - Scully, Scrimshaw, Chad (!?) and even Sicily, Worpel and Mitch Lewis will make a big difference next year.
 

hebog

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Bring back the torpedo. That will take the pressure off getting closer to goal and take some of the predictability out of our play. All goal kickers need a ritual when kicking for goal, like Matthew Lloyd throwing a piece of grass into the air.
 

HODGEYROAD

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Pretty sure if Swans do it today that leaves us and the Suns as the only two sides that failed to crack the ton in 2019.
 

AlwaysHawks15

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Pretty sure if Swans do it today that leaves us and the Suns as the only two sides that failed to crack the ton in 2019.
Saints haven't either. The Suns won't kick a big score the rest of the year their done. Can see the saints doing it at some stage later on but struggle to see us doing it considering who we play. Would be a little embarrassing we get lumped with Gold Coast for any statistic TBH.
 

A Cut Above

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Saints haven't either. The Suns won't kick a big score the rest of the year their done. Can see the saints doing it at some stage later on but struggle to see us doing it considering who we play. Would be a little embarrassing we get lumped with Gold Coast for any statistic TBH.
Phew, for a second there I was worried we might be stuck with Gold Coast as the only teams who can't kick 100 points, but having St.Kilda join us totally makes that okay.

Hopefully we can pull some trades at the end of the year because our forwardline looks totally threadbare with only Bruest, Gunston, Wingard, Burgoyne & Puopolo down there.... imagine if we had some real talent! :drunk:
 

TBoyleSuperstar

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One thing we need to do and that’s take a leaf out of Geelongs book (hmm, I think I just threw up a little in my mouth). It’s was mentioned in the opposition thread, but they rarely fly for marks together. We do this a lot. And usually it’s our smaller players flying too. So we see poppy and Breust and usually a Lewis/ceglar fly against 2 opposition and the hall goes to ground,we are now out numbered and the ball flys out of our f50. We then complain there’s no forward pressure. But it starts from The original marking contest.

We have the talent up forward, arguably as much talent in our f50 as any side in the comp, but we don’t play as a team well enough to make the most of it.
 

HODGEYROAD

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One thing we need to do and that’s take a leaf out of Geelongs book (hmm, I think I just threw up a little in my mouth). It’s was mentioned in the opposition thread, but they rarely fly for marks together. We do this a lot. And usually it’s our smaller players flying too. So we see poppy and Breust and usually a Lewis/ceglar fly against 2 opposition and the hall goes to ground,we are now out numbered and the ball flys out of our f50. We then complain there’s no forward pressure. But it starts from The original marking contest.

We have the talent up forward, arguably as much talent in our f50 as any side in the comp, but we don’t play as a team well enough to make the most of it.
It's because our midfield and ball movement is hot garbage IMO.
 

Brant

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It is, but you still don’t have to have 3 blokes jumping in the contest leaving us outnumbered on the ground
Our forward entries are often at the detriment of our forwards & we often only have small guys down there.

It is really easy for opposiition defences to block our guys out of the contest & let others take what is in effect, uncontested pack marks.

We send multiple guys into the air because it's the only way we can be sure that the ball will hit the ground & even then, it often doesn't.

Unfortunately, we either need to move the ball heaps better or allow ball carriers to hit up forwards (1-on-1) on the lead & neither of those things are happening this season, so we'll keep kicking it to Popeye in the goal square & relying on 2x of his mates to help him out in the air.
 

Luv_our_club

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Our forward entries are often at the detriment of our forwards & we often only have small guys down there.

It is really easy for opposiition defences to block our guys out of the contest & let others take what is in effect, uncontested pack marks.

We send multiple guys into the air because it's the only way we can be sure that the ball will hit the ground & even then, it often doesn't.

Unfortunately, we either need to move the ball heaps better or allow ball carriers to hit up forwards (1-on-1) on the lead & neither of those things are happening this season, so we'll keep kicking it to Popeye in the goal square & relying on 2x of his mates to help him out in the air.
Yep, all spot on.

It also doesn't help that we currently push our forwards up the ground to help our midfield. For this reason we are relying on a lot of goals out the back, running back towards goal. And it exhausts our forwards, like Bruest and Gunston.

And it doesn't help that most our inside 50's come from Cousins, Smith, Worps, Shiels, and JOM... who are not elite kicks.

When we have the confidence and the space to kick to one-on-ones, we have done well. Ceglar, McEvoy, Gunston, Bruest have all won their share of one-on-one marking contests when the delivery gives them a chance.
 
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