Hawks' scoring issues.

[Pessimistic]

So a third of the season over, 4 wins 4 losses.

The wins come against top 4 teams and bottom 4 teams

In fact of top 8 teams now we are 2 wins 1 loss. One home, one neutral and one away. Percentage here is Better than overall percentage at 120%

That means 2 wins 3 losses against the rest

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Not necessarily low scoring when most of the league is kicking similar scores

 

[A Cut Above]

8 goals kicked in four quarters of football without rain. We aren't the only team struggling to score but that's cold comfort right now.

 

[WWSD]

A team that has five All-Australian forwards should be kicking big scores each game, sadly though due to having a very weak midfield there’s no quality delivery going inside 50.

 

[A Cut Above]

https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-05-21/stats-files-how-the-fear-of-failure-is-crippling-goalkickers

We already knew Gunston's kicking for goal has fallen off a cliff but the stats are particularly damning.

 

[Hawthorn United]

https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-05-21/stats-files-how-the-fear-of-failure-is-crippling-goalkickers

We already knew Gunston's kicking for goal has fallen off a cliff but the stats are particularly damning.

He was such a good drop punt, even kicking them on the boundary 40-50m out.

Now he's going for the around the corner from 20m out, 5m in from the boundary.

He's doing a lot more running nowadays, so we've completely killed him as a forward.

 

[threesixpio]

Hawthorn are not that good anymore. It is that simple. As a result they have to commit more resources to defending to be competitive and that means less scoring.

2011 - 2355 points for
2012 - 2679
2013 - 2523
2014 - 2458
2015 - 2452
2016 - 2134
2017 - 1864
2018 - 1972

Hawthorn were scoring approx. 25% more when they were approx. 25% better

He he

 

[threesixpio]

A team that has five All-Australian forwards should be kicking big scores each game, sadly though due to having a very weak midfield there’s no quality delivery going inside 50.

Not so sure this the only issue. We really didn’t “take our chances” last week.

 

[Gaston]

We aren't finals material so I think the coaching staff should adopt an attacking game style.
Yes we will get torched on the rebound but progressively through the year you can adjust.
The wins / losses will come but essentially over the last 10-12 weeks you are conducting a pre-season
on your game plan for next year.

Look at the top of the ladder, sides who have displayed an ability to consistently kick over 100 points.

 

[Davo-27]

Hawthorn are not that good anymore. It is that simple. As a result they have to commit more resources to defending to be competitive and that means less scoring.

2011 - 2355 points for
2012 - 2679
2013 - 2523
2014 - 2458
2015 - 2452
2016 - 2134
2017 - 1864
2018 - 1972

Hawthorn were scoring approx. 25% more when they were approx. 25% better

2019 - 1753 (is how we are tracking so far)

 

[Wandering Hawk]

What scares/confuses me about this season is that we are a worse team (performance wise) than last season and yet we have so many players having breakout years or their best seasons for the club...

Henderson
O'Meara
Worpell
McEvoy
Impey
Lewis
Scrimshaw
Sicily

Arguably....
Shiels
Ceglar
Moore
Cousins

The standard is low to break out when you're a kid, and the aged players are poor this year.
Lewis is having a 'break out' one goal a game year, and Moore would dream of a goal a game. It's only because we're so starved of talent that we consider this a good sign. Showing future potential is now called 'break out'.

Cousins and Worpel are doing amazingly for kids, but they're barely at the level of your basic regular midfielder. I mean, who is actually having a break out year that sees them actually as good as Hodge Lewis or Mitchell were? Maybe JOM, and TOM last year. Is Smith as good as he was in the three peat? Hardly.

Meanwhile Roughead and Puopolo see their goal per game output dry up, and Breust and Gunston are so knackered assisting the injured midfield of kids that they can barely find the sticks.

Even when we fix the midfield, expect a year or two in the wilderness as we rebuild the forward line. We used to have the Rioli and Puopolo pressure to trap the ball in, now we've lost Rioli, Puopolo is aging, our key forward is cooked, and the rules have altered to allow better kick ins to break the press. New forwards take several years to reach a good output, so expect a long lag before reasonable performance even if the issues get fixed.

 

[QuietB]

2019 - 1753 (is how we are tracking so far)

Which is hardly surprising.

1/ Hawks best player is out for the year.
2/ Hawks best recruit has played 2-3 games. And they have not been good games.
3/ Rough is done and a 2 gamer has replaced him.
4/ Burgoyne is spending less and less time as key player. Barely sees the middle these days.
5/ A lot of the Hawks premiership players simply have not filled the void left by their senior counterparts who have left.

On a positive note the Hawks are getting games into kids and will get the opportunity to fill a few holes.

It is not possible to stay up forever and replacing Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis, Gibson, Lake, Hill, Rioli, Brchall and Rough is actually not that easy.

But the task is in good hands so we need to be patient.

 

[Hawk88]

The difference from our young crop compared to some other young clubs show the big divide in our performances this year. We simply don't have enough young top end talent

We need to get some good young kids in next draft and start a mini rebuild while Titch, O'Meara etc are still in their prime and realistically aim for a premiership in 2-3 years time

 

[QuietB]

The difference from our young crop compared to some other young clubs show the big divide in our performances this year. We simply don't have enough young top end talent

We need to get some good young kids in next draft and start a mini rebuild while Titch, O'Meara etc are still in their prime and realistically aim for a premiership in 2-3 years time

Which other young clubs?

 

[Hawk88]

Which other young clubs?

Brisbane, Port and Gold Coast have great young talent especially

While clubs like Geelong and Richmond seem to have quality young guys coming in to their team every week whom have been sitting in the wings. It just feels like the players we are bringing in just dont "have it"

Fingers crossed this turns around for the remainder of the year

 

[Buckemenico]

Clarko is well aware that to be successful you need an elite core of at least 6 players. Without that, there is no use having role players. Our talent pool is thin but doing well in those circumstances.

Since 2015, Clarko has done amazingly well to try and develop/trade in an elite core without having access to any good draft picks, father-son recruits or fortunate free agency gains (is. Dangerfield always wanted to play for Geelong).

Our elite core is: Tommy (Brownlow), Jaeger (potential AA), Sicily (potential AA - came from pick 56), McEvoy, Chad, Worpel (came from pick 45,still so young), Breust and Gunston.

We presently have other potential elite players: Tom Scully, Henderson is elite this year and Isaac Smith.

Compare our performances to many sides who have had lots of top-end drafts and a lot of top-up trading and we are still well ahead of many.

 

[A Cut Above]

Just wondering how many Hawk posters who were deep in denial that we have major scoring issues have finally come around? We haven't kicked 100 points this season and the way we're playing it doesn't look like we will. I can't even remember the last time that happened.

 

[SHAKESPEARE]

Just wondering how many Hawk posters who were deep in denial that we have major scoring issues have finally come around? We haven't kicked 100 points this season and the way we're playing it doesn't look like we will. I can't even remember the last time that happened.

We are a brilliant team. Top 4 team. Amazing talent. Umpires are costing us and it's an AFL conspiracy.

 

[KermitJagger]

Just wondering how many Hawk posters who were deep in denial that we have major scoring issues have finally come around? We haven't kicked 100 points this season and the way we're playing it doesn't look like we will. I can't even remember the last time that happened.

It really does start in the middle.

I've gone over this in other threads, but we are crumbling in stoppages and we don't have a player at the moment that is proficient at distributing out to better position. Love Jags and Worps, but they're forward guys. So is Cousins.

Remember when we had Mitch and Lewis, who got the ball and cut their angles to distribute the ball into the corridor or outside to blokes in better position? They got into good positions and worked to be link up targets throughout the ground too. Titch did that well.

We don't have that without Titch. Titch was fantastic at it though, averaged more TOG% than any other midfielder last year, and covered 15km a game regularly. He was a clearance machine, and led the league in assisted metres gained (ridiculous sounding stat but it's true) by distributing the ball outside to guys like Smith who coincidentally had career best numbers.

His impact to our game simply cannot be understated.

I'm not too bothered that a club with a relatively thin midfield is underperforming without their best midfielder, the reigning Brownlow Medallist and MVP.

 

[William Wonka]

The main difference with now as against our threepeat years is we no longer chip it around outside the fifty and then spot up a short target.
THIS
Is where most of our 50 entries need to come from.

 

[Pessimistic]

Even on Saturday they had deliveries where a man or men were free inside 50. Thy got burned. Maybe the defenders were at tempting distances. I don’t understand tactics but I’m sure we could do better if we trusted our guys more

 

[Kanga Commando]

<snip>
Gunston gets moved around more than a kid in a candy store.
</snip>

+1

 

[Kanga Commando]

It really does start in the middle.

I've gone over this in other threads, but we are crumbling in stoppages and we don't have a player at the moment that is proficient at distributing out to better position. Love Jags and Worps, but they're forward guys. So is Cousins.

Remember when we had Mitch and Lewis, who got the ball and cut their angles to distribute the ball into the corridor or outside to blokes in better position? They got into good positions and worked to be link up targets throughout the ground too. Titch did that well.

We don't have that without Titch. Titch was fantastic at it though, averaged more TOG% than any other midfielder last year, and covered 15km a game regularly. He was a clearance machine, and led the league in assisted metres gained (ridiculous sounding stat but it's true) by distributing the ball outside to guys like Smith who coincidentally had career best numbers.

His impact to our game simply cannot be understated.

I'm not too bothered that a club with a relatively thin midfield is underperforming without their best midfielder, the reigning Brownlow Medallist and MVP.

Pretty sure the clearances stats reflected this.... If i get a chance i might try and dig the clearances numbers for the year...

 

[4THAWN]

Brisbane, Port and Gold Coast have great young talent especially

While clubs like Geelong and Richmond seem to have quality young guys coming in to their team every week whom have been sitting in the wings. It just feels like the players we are bringing in just dont "have it"

Fingers crossed this turns around for the remainder of the year

brisbane have been rebuilding for quite some time, and seem to have a solid coaching group so it's no surprise they have good youth. They may suffer from the "go home" effect in a few years however, can never rule that out especially for the northern teams.

Port adelaide meh, yes they've got good players in the draft but people forget how players can look promising early and fall away. Seems like everyone has just penciled in that all port's draftees are bonified guns and will be for a long time. Wait and see on that one in a few years.

Gold Coast, yes but they are probably going to continue to struggle with having to pay overs to keep average players at the club. If they can get manage to get their salaries normal then I have heaps of faith in stewy dew to bring the crop of youngsters up well.

Richmond for mine have really really really drafted well, so much so I'd say they've extended their premiership window 2/3 years longer.

Stack, Castagna, Higgins, Ross, Bolton, Balta, Baker are all serious players, even keeping a Rioli out of the side.

 

[Xtreme]

Sack Scott Burns

Re-hire Brendan Bolton

Profit ???