Autopsy Hawks survive a scare v Saints, Round 22 2018

[Davo-27]

Worpel had another good game, but you've put 3 players that had the same or more clearances and more contested ball than he did in your 'poor' category (Shiels, Mitchell and JOM). He also had 7 clangers (2 more than the worst of your 3 'poor' mids, with Mitchell having 5, JOM having 2, and Shiels only 1), and went at 51% efficiency. 7 clangers was the most on the ground. There is a lot to get excited about with Worpel, but IMO this was the first of his recent batch of games that showed some of the defects in his game that let him slip to pick 45.

if you base your understanding of a game on stats rather than actually watching a game, you'll be fooled more often than enlightened...

 

[MinerBoy]

Geez, I feel like we watched completely different games. Been at the game and not following commentary or stats my reaction was:
- Stratts had an absolute mare
- JOM worked harder than any other hawks player on the field and was close to best on
- Smith was in everything
- Burton was our best defender

Agree with all this bar Smith. Felt like he was hardly sighted.... haven’t checked his numbers. Didn’t like his over the top celebration either..:. Ignoring that he actually missed it anyway. Considering the quality of our game even if he’d kicked it I’d have preferred him to just give the quick fist pump type thing and focus on getting on with it than the “look at me I’ve won us the GF” type celo


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Off The Couch]

So I’m guessing that this weeks focus around the game will be Gunners “touched goal”

 

[KermitJagger]

Nothing against Nash but I bloody hope Shoe stays in ahead of him


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

What about Nash's game last night makes you want Schoe to stay ahead of him?

 

[RIOLINWITPUNCHS]

Disappointing as i think Eagles are much more beatable than Richmond.

We might be better off finishing 5th.

 

[Nugett]

Need to win next week. Posistion 2-4 are up for grabs depending on other results. Lose than more than likely 5 or 6.

 

[MinerBoy]

What about Nash's game last night makes you want Schoe to stay ahead of him?

It was a handy game but he's still raw. Doesn't demand he keeps getting selected. For starters, he has a bit of the Langers about him when he actually had the ball. Shoe was quiet but is far more important overall to how well we'll go in September. I think people are a bit over the top excited if they think our team game will be as successful with Nash in instead of Shoe.

 

[MacMace]

im just gonna be a chauvinist and say women shouldnt umpire a mans sport, political correctness can suck a big one....

Why? Are women incapable of running around a field, blowing a whistle, making questionable calls and being hated by most supporters? From my experience women, like men, are more than capable of all of the above.

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[hk89]

if you base your understanding of a game on stats rather than actually watching a game, you'll be fooled more often than enlightened...

I watched the game, and noticed a heap of turnovers, didn't you see any of those? I'm not saying he is not an exciting player - he clearly is. I also saw a lot to be excited by. However yesterday was the first time I started to see what the knock on him that led to him to go so late was.

 

[realhawk]

Nothing against Nash but I bloody hope Shoe stays in ahead of him


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Did you not watch last nights game

 

[KermitJagger]

It was a handy game but he's still raw. Doesn't demand he keeps getting selected. For starters, he has a bit of the Langers about him when he actually had the ball. Shoe was quiet but is far more important overall to how well we'll go in September. I think people are a bit over the top excited if they think our team game will be as successful with Nash in instead of Shoe.

Look, he spent less time on the ground than Schoe, had 5 more tackles, more than twice as many disposals, 6 more score involvements, one more goal assist and 4 more marks. He applied about twice as much pressure and won 2-3 frees from it. He also had more shots on goal.

Not only that he led the field in sprinting efforts, repeat sprinting efforts and hit the highest speed recorded last night. Probably covered three times as much ground as Schoe did last night too. There's no way Nash gets dropped ahead of Schoe based on the previous two weeks efforts.

 

[MinerBoy]

Did you not watch last nights game

No. I'm really a Cats troll.

 

[Hawkboy62]

Would have liked to see Clarko coaching from the bench in the last quarter. The Glass/Logie match up was killing us, even though the umpiring had a touch of the tights.

Thank goodness we held on. Imagine the crap we would have copped on AFL360 and SwanThe Couch! It will be nice going in outsiders against the Bloods Culcha.

Hopefully Frawley gets up. Huge game from Nash. If his kicking was more conventional Schoey would be in danger of missing. Saints board are melting about the umpiring!

 

[KermitJagger]

I watched the game, and noticed a heap of turnovers, didn't you see any of those? I'm not saying he is not an exciting player - he clearly is. I also saw a lot to be excited by. However yesterday was the first time I started to see what the knock on him that led to him to go so late was.

Normally would agree but he was hardly alone in butchering the ball last night. Jaeger, Mitchell, Smith and Shiels all had extremely off nights. Stratton gave up at least three goals from dumb kicks last night himself. Shouldn't be singling out a first year player based on last nights efforts when he wasn't alone in being unreliable.

 

[MinerBoy]

Look, he spent less time on the ground than Schoe, had 5 more tackles, more than twice as many disposals, 6 more score involvements, one more goal assist and 4 more marks. He applied about twice as much pressure and won 2-3 frees from it. He also had more shots on goal.

Not only that he led the field in sprinting efforts, repeat sprinting efforts and hit the highest speed recorded last night. Probably covered three times as much ground as Schoe did last night too. There's no way Nash gets dropped ahead of Schoe based on the previous two weeks efforts.

We'll see I guess. Nothing against Nash btw..... just think Shoe is more important overall to our set up. Nash is raw and exciting but a bit like a chook without a head running around doing some exciting some and some ordinary stuff (kicking) but overall with no real feel for the team set up and importance to how we move forward. What you get from him is either great or poor based purely on his instinct whereas Shoe is a better fit for the team right now and how we bring the ball forward.

If we base selection on the previous week only then Strats will be shitting himself.

 

[KermitJagger]

We'll see I guess. Nothing against Nash btw..... just think Shoe is more important overall to our set up. Nash is raw and exciting but a bit like a chook without a head running around doing some exciting some and some ordinary stuff (kicking) but overall with no real feel for the team set up and importance to how we move forward. What you get from him is either great or poor based purely on his instinct whereas Shoe is a better fit for the team right now and how we bring the ball forward.

If we base selection on the previous week only then Strats will be shitting himself.

I'm not sure how you quantify that though, last night our structure was completely rooted and it was hardly Nash's fault. Conversely I'm not sure how Schoey's game last night reflected his importance to structure, looking at how we attacked he hardly got near it and sure didn't make attack much easier for our other forwards.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

It was a handy game but he's still raw. Doesn't demand he keeps getting selected. For starters, he has a bit of the Langers about him when he actually had the ball. Shoe was quiet but is far more important overall to how well we'll go in September. I think people are a bit over the top excited if they think our team game will be as successful with Nash in instead of Shoe.

Worpel has the Langers about him, not necessarily a bad thing as I think he has other strengths, but the dash, strength, aggression and then clanger was Langford--esque at times.

Nash seemingly made great decisions and didn't turn it over under pressure, in fact he was able to find team mates under pressure (unless I'm forgetting some passages of play).

 

[Lotus]

Would have liked to see Clarko coaching from the bench in the last quarter. The Glass/Logie match up was killing us, even though the umpiring had a touch of the tights.

Thank goodness we held on. Imagine the crap we would have copped on AFL360 and SwanThe Couch! It will be nice going in outsiders against the Bloods Culcha.

Hopefully Frawley gets up. Huge game from Nash. If his kicking was more conventional Schoey would be in danger of missing. Saints board are melting about the umpiring!

What are they complaining about?

 

[Freshmeat]

Well maybe **** off and pick another team to abuse if your so disgusted with todays win. Dickhead.

We don’t turn on our own. In all fairness he said he was disgusted with today’s GAME, not the WIN.
It was after all a pretty ordinary game of footy to watch.

 

[cam975]

What are they complaining about?

Bloody hell their #10 was tackled and dropped the ball at least twice, the goal they got from lonie grabbing glass's arm and there were two Ablett-esque dives the umps fell for! Sheesh!

Sent from my HTC 2PS6200 using Tapatalk

 

[TAITA]

Worpel for another Rising Star Nomination just because.....

Bullshit - this week is Nash.

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[MinerBoy]

Worpel has the Langers about him, not necessarily a bad thing as I think he has other strengths, but the dash, strength, aggression and then clanger was Langford--esque at times.

Nash seemingly made great decisions and didn't turn it over under pressure, in fact he was able to find team mates under pressure (unless I'm forgetting some passages of play).

Haha Langers has about 11 touches and turns them all over. Worps is getting 20-25+ and scrubs a few after fends off, tackle breaking and then having a rush kick. Langers would rush every disposal, even when he didn't need to. Worps was rushing the disposals he needed to rush but has far more composure overall.

His disposal, ball use and all round game has been infinitely better than Langers despite a few turnovers last night - like the rest of his team.

 

[hk89]

Normally would agree but he was hardly alone in butchering the ball last night. Jaeger, Mitchell, Smith and Shiels all had extremely off nights. Stratton gave up at least three goals from dumb kicks last night himself. Shouldn't be singling out a first year player based on last nights efforts when he wasn't alone in being unreliable.

Not really singling him out, just pointing out to a poster that had Worpel in their best and all of Shiels, Mitchell and JOM as "poor" might be looking at Worpel's performance last night through rose coloured glasses when comparing his performance to those other mids. Worpel's disposal gets a pass because of four factors, 1) he was very good in many other aspects, taking the game on successfully in many instances 2) he is very young and 3) his disposal was much better in previous weeks (surprisingly good given what the was said about him pre-draft), and 4) we won. However if any other player had 7 clangers and 8 turnovers (the equal most on the ground) in a close game, we'd be tearing him a new one, not saying how much better he was than JOM on the night (which IMO is just a wrong assessment).

 

[Lotus]

Bloody hell their #10 was tackled and dropped the ball at least twice, the goal they got from lonie grabbing glass's arm and there were two Ablett-esque dives the umps fell for! Sheesh!

Sent from my HTC 2PS6200 using Tapatalk

Yes, lots of incorrect disposals not being paid, htb, holding the man not being paid. I love how our players never complain about it but I noticed lately Burgoyne bit vocals about it on the ground (not the cats style of complaining though).

 

[TAITA]

We'll see I guess. Nothing against Nash btw..... just think Shoe is more important overall to our set up. Nash is raw and exciting but a bit like a chook without a head running around doing some exciting some and some ordinary stuff (kicking) but overall with no real feel for the team set up and importance to how we move forward. What you get from him is either great or poor based purely on his instinct whereas Shoe is a better fit for the team right now and how we bring the ball forward.

If we base selection on the previous week only then Strats will be shitting himself.

Why not have both? Nash's rawness and instinctive play is part of the appeal, indeed the very instincts we celebrate in the indigenous. I don't have a ceiling for him because of his speed and pressure - can you imagine him in 2 years? Shoe must also play - he is pivotal to our F50 entries - the two players aren't even competing for the same position.

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app