Autopsy Hawks survive a scare v Saints, Round 22 2018

[MinerBoy]

Why not have both? Nash's rawness and instinctive play is part of the appeal, indeed the very instincts we celebrate in the indigenous. I don't have a ceiling for him because of his speed and pressure - can you imagine him in 2 years? Shoe must also play - he is pivotal to our F50 entries - the two players aren't even competing for the same position.

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With Cegs and Rough to come back I don't think he's best 22 at this point, despite his exciting qualities.

 

[hk89]

Look, he spent less time on the ground than Schoe, had 5 more tackles, more than twice as many disposals, 6 more score involvements, one more goal assist and 4 more marks. He applied about twice as much pressure and won 2-3 frees from it. He also had more shots on goal.

Not only that he led the field in sprinting efforts, repeat sprinting efforts and hit the highest speed recorded last night. Probably covered three times as much ground as Schoe did last night too. There's no way Nash gets dropped ahead of Schoe based on the previous two weeks efforts.

Yes, Nash did a great job of keeping continually involved in the game, which IMO is the main knock on Shoey. Shoey has a lot of attributes that should make him a very very good player, but doesn't have enough moments in the game for you to feel he is living up to his potential. For Nash to be as involved as he was in his second game was a very exciting performance, especially on a night when the team was generally down on previous weeks' form. Still think Shoey might get picked in front of him for experience reasons, but Nash would be very unlucky if that happens.

 

[B&GBlood]

AFL site saying Frawley is a hammy. Not good if the case - could miss some finals, but luckily we have the round off after round 23.

Not from what I saw, either corked buttock or back spasms from a marking contest.

 

[Freshmeat]

How funny is this? $10 for the first person to spot Poppy....

Even in team photos he’s a pop up sprinkler

 

[PT Bar None]

Yep I saw players run around our rucks. A good idea from them. Pitto needs to be like Stefan if he is going to make it. A tackling beast for a start and then a contested mark... he is getting there.
Aside: when Ceglar is back... I love to see midfielders try to run away from him... Ceglar is seriously fast and always scares them or runs them down.
Rucks are not our issue. Our Rucks are awesome.

Yep = agreed on all

 

[Glenhope]

Eliminate those 3-4 stupid turnover goals we gave them and it wouldn't have been so stressful. Glass,Stratton,Stratton,Brand (?) I think.

Also Schoenmakers seemingly couldn't take a mark all night. He got one late but 'touched' dammit. He's just not contributing enough. He needs to be more of a threat.

 

[hawksalltheway]

thought Morrison was solid again....not his best, but he is certainly a solid contributor each week....not bad for a sub 20 gamer

Worpel & Nash v impressive

JOM was crucial despite what some are saying....he is class
and TOM fought through in the 2nd half despite the hard tag

a tough game against opposition who can play very well in patches, especially on that postage stamp of a ground.....thank god we wont play there again this season

i think it could prove a blessing in disguise to ensure we are switched on against SYD

 

[Hawkboy62]

What are they complaining about?

50m not paid to them late in the game, when our player was allegedly way over the mark.
Hawks not penalised for deliberately forcing the ball over the line with no Hawks in the vicinity..etc etc

Pity it's only the Saints. Needs more salt!

We were a bit unlucky that there efficiency in front of goals was way up on Saints norm. They can normally get a large number of forward entries, and we gave them a sniff, so they gutsed the game out well.

 

[tige19]

With Cegs and Rough to come back I don't think he's best 22 at this point, despite his exciting qualities.

I agree, he is going to be a decent player on face value but Schoe is to important for structure. Nash will do well back at BHH and get ready to launch for 2018.

 

[Breustiful]

Don’t understand the Schoey knocking. I think his role is different to what everyone thinks it is. As long as he is crashing those packs and bringing the ball to the ground for the likes of Breust and Poppy, then keep him in.

Would like him, however, to take a few marks though!

 

[savagelunchbox]

Schoenmakers' ability to keep the ball in the vicinity when it was kicked near him was important last night because St Kilda were well setup to transition off Hawthorn's high-ball kicking.

 

[hawksalltheway]

conor glass getting blamed is a bit rough too....kid has played 9 games....his pace and line breaking ability is a definite asset that is worth persisting with...set up a goal last night with his burst and long klick running off half back.....gave away some dubious free kicks to the milking saints forwards...but definitely competes

dont forget, we are strictly speaking in a re-build and he could be part of our bright future....9th game


i agree that Shoey is playing his role...has been solid since coming in to the side....good sized, expericenced body, will stand up in finals


also....is it just me or does Jack Stevens look a little porky....?

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

Would have liked to see Clarko coaching from the bench in the last quarter. The Glass/Logie match up was killing us, even though the umpiring had a touch of the tights.
.....

I know they give 'em away these days, but it was only Luke Darcy (and the umpire) he fooled with that acting...

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I was frustrated for most of the game last night - it was infuriating not being able to put them away.

After getting home from the game I was done being frustrated. We got the 4 points - we bank them and move on. That ugly win doesn’t undo the 2 really good wins we had before it. The ugly game was good to get out of our system now and expose areas of improvement to the coaches coming into a game against Sydney and then a final.

Most of all - I remembered last night about an article Rohan Connolly wrote about us at the early stages of last year - suggesting strongly that the Hawthorn FC was a crumbling empire and that our capacity to rebuild was not nearly as good as the equally struggling Swans.

Imagine if you’d suggested in the middle of last year after our second heavy loss to the Suns that we would be a potential top 4 side in 15 or so months time. You’d have been laughed at, ridiculed and called any number of names.

Here we are guaranteed of a finals spot. The Rohan Connolly spoke of our lack of youth. He said that Sicily was ‘inexplicably’ being tried as a defender. He questioned our ability to rebuild quickly. Sicily is now an AA level rebounding defender, Miles has commanded his spot and now challenged seasoned players to take it off him. Worpel is playing like a 50-100 gamer. Hardwick makes you think the 15 hasn’t even changed hands. Burton had had a second year dip but still shows a stack of promise. The O’Meara trade looks more and more like a cheap price each game he plays.

If you’d said to me pre-season that Birchall wouldn’t play all season and Cyril would retire mid-year and we’d definitely make the finals and possibly top 4 I’d have been sceptical. But here we are. We’ve defied all expectations except for possibly the most blissful of optimists.

The reports of Hawthorn’s demise were greatly exaggerated. We are rebuilding rapidly. We’ve made the finals again long before anyone thought we would. Our horrible youf are stunning doubters and supporters alike. Write us off at your peril - Hawthorn is back where we belong, in September.

 

[Davo-27]

I watched the game, and noticed a heap of turnovers, didn't you see any of those? I'm not saying he is not an exciting player - he clearly is. I also saw a lot to be excited by. However yesterday was the first time I started to see what the knock on him that led to him to go so late was.

i saw him have some turnovers and being put in really bad situations which he tried to make the most out of, the way our team was playing and the lack of support, most of the guys that were making plays and trying to win were having turnovers ect because our other more experienced players were hanging them out to dry.

 

[realhawk]

I'm not sure how you quantify that though, last night our structure was completely rooted and it was hardly Nash's fault. Conversely I'm not sure how Schoey's game last night reflected his importance to structure, looking at how we attacked he hardly got near it and sure didn't make attack much easier for our other forwards.

Spot on, no spot for Schoenmakers when Rough and Cegs come back. Nash can play big and small, has pace and defensive tackling, he will keep his place.

 

[Wesley2]

A lot of praise for Worpel and also some respectful criticism of him. He had a fair game, was great in parts but also made some mistakes. 8 games in you'd take that to the bank any day.

And on this "female umpire" nonsense:
1) All umps make mistakes.
2) There is no "anti-Hawthorn" conspiracy.

 

[Changa10]

I see a lot of people having a shot at Lonie in here.

1. The arm hold free. That was simply inexperience from Glass. He didn’t need to engage like that in that contest. Umpire paid what they saw. I had no issue with that free being paid. Having said that, the exact type of ‘hold’ happened at the other end numerous times and supposedly went unnoticed by the people in green!

2. The Lonie ‘Dive’. I’m sorry, but if Glass didn’t stupidly put both hands fair and square in the middle of Lonie’s back there would have been no free kick paid. Was just stupid, and not required given we had numbers at the contest.

3. Burton was stupid too. Dragging Lonie down off the ball after some altercation! Umps will always pay that.

Umpires were inconsistent but there weren’t too many frees paid to Saints that I thought weren’t warranted. There were plenty missed, particularly in our forward 50, and in particular the usual incorrect disposal. Let’s face it Breust threw one beautifully to Gunners for a goal there at one stage, but we don’t seem quite as good at this as most other teams!

 

[RIOLINWITPUNCHS]

Serious question:

Who deserves top 4 more Hawks or Swans?

Taking bias out.

 

[Argy]

Serious question:

Who deserves top 4 more Hawks or Swans?

Taking bias out.

No team deserves anything. You have to earn it.

 

[Off The Couch]

Serious question:

Who deserves top 4 more Hawks or Swans?

Taking bias out.

Geelong because they are the only team that can be competitive against the tigers

 

[NICE1]

Yes, Nash did a great job of keeping continually involved in the game, which IMO is the main knock on Shoey. Shoey has a lot of attributes that should make him a very very good player, but doesn't have enough moments in the game for you to feel he is living up to his potential. For Nash to be as involved as he was in his second game was a very exciting performance, especially on a night when the team was generally down on previous weeks' form. Still think Shoey might get picked in front of him for experience reasons, but Nash would be very unlucky if that happens.

What are these attributes that everyone speaks of? As far as I can see he has a great kick and it stops there. He isn't fast, he isn't nimble, you cant say overhead marking is a feature of his game, his physical shape and size are good but I'd argue he doesn't use it to his advantage enough and I'd say his footy IQ is average or just above average.

Is that harsh?

 

[grumbleguts]

How funny is this? $10 for the first person to spot Poppy....

 

[satadaynitefeva]

Why? Are women incapable of running around a field, blowing a whistle, making questionable calls and being hated by most supporters? From my experience women, like men, are more than capable of all of the above.

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I love women.......

 

[Ned Ryerson]

im just gonna be a chauvinist and say women shouldnt umpire a mans sport, political correctness can suck a big one....

It’s not political correctness to say that females can umpire in the AFL, it’s just not being a campaigner.