Autopsy Hawks survive a scare v Saints, Round 22 2018

[hk89]

What are these attributes that everyone speaks of? As far as I can see he has a great kick and it stops there. He isn't fast, he isn't nimble, you cant say overhead marking is a feature of his game, his physical shape and size are good but I'd argue he doesn't use it to his advantage enough and I'd say his footy IQ is average or just above average.

Is that harsh?

He looks plenty fast to me for a guy his size, and that makes him hard to match up on if he goes forward, and flexible on who he can match up on if he plays down back. I've even seen some describe him as a massively oversized winger. I'm not sure about his footy IQ. It would be unusual for an irish guy to be high in this area early on, but 16 possessions in your second game when you are not playing predominantly on the ball suggests he knows where to go in order to get his hands on the ball. Getting involved in the game can be a difficult things to teach, and he seems to have that knack already. He also appears to be a tackling beast, not only the ferocity of his tackles, but the quantity (equal highest number on the ground yesterday).

Very early days, but looks like quality to me.

 

[burger09]

Love your work.

 

[LuckyHawk]

Schoenmakers has zero ability to apply defensive pressure and lock the ball in. Nash is faster tackles better gives better repeat efforts and finds more of the ball, after 2 games he is already a better player Han Schoenmakers. With Cegs and rough back their is no spot for shoey. Were people even watching last nights game.

Have to agree. Shoey is a great clubman but he's never been the answer as a KPP or as a flanker. He's good with ball in hand, knows what to do
but doesn't impact contests anywhere near enough, the main reason being his lack of mobility. The idea he straightens us up is a complete
fallacy and yes, Nash had more impact this game than Shoey has had in sadly many of the games he's played. Nash is a keeper and love the "x"
factor he brings to the team.

 

[Davo23]

I like Worpel making mistakes. He's taking the game on. Enjoy the youthful exuberance now before it slowly gets coached out of him.

Yes, but I don’t think that’s the Clarko way: we give the ball off, we don’t have players who take the whole opposition on. It’s always team first at Hawthorn.

Even Cyril, who could do it: always looked to pass to someone in a better position.

 

[hk89]

Serious question:

Who deserves top 4 more Hawks or Swans?

Taking bias out.

Probably Sydney based on form, but it will be close if we win next weekend. If the ladder stays as it is now, and we win against Sydney, Sydney has definitely had more success against the top 8 (a win to us next week having Sydney going 8-3, versus our 5-4). However, you can only beat who you play, and we've only lost one more time against the top 8 than they have, so they've had harder double ups based on the current top 8.

Part of the reason we'd have only got 5 wins against the top 8 if we beat Sydney is because we've done more to shape the 8 with our wins than they have. We beat Essendon twice and Port once. If those results were reversed both of those would be good chances of making the 8 (at our expense). Sydney lost to both those teams. Also when we've lost to top 8 sides (only 1 more time than they did), we contained the damage slightly better than they did, our worst loss against a top 8 side was 15 points, their worst loss was 26 points (hopefully we can increase that next weekend ). Our best win against a top 8 side was 67 points, their best was 29 points.

We've both had embarrassing losses, theirs against GC, our two against Brisbane, but I'd argue Lions are a better outfit than GC this year. We both lost to North.

We also have a considerably better percentage than them, and this is often a better measure of how a team is travelling than raw win/loss, although in this case Sydney's tougher draw based on current top 8 needs to be factored in (and despite Melbourne winning today, their percentage still flatters them, so this year percentage is perhaps not the barometer it has been in the past).

If Sydney win next week then it is very easily Sydney, with a 9-2 versus 4-5 record against the current top 8, and the double win against us.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I was at the game - did BT put that down to his rugby background?

 

[SSSSSS]

Yes, but I don’t think that’s the Clarko way: we give the ball off, we don’t have players who take the whole opposition on. It’s always team first at Hawthorn.

Even Cyril, who could do it: always looked to pass to someone in a better position.

I wish Cyril didn't. He was good enough to do it solo. Too unselfish at times.

I'm too spoilt. I just want some Cyril magic back

 

[Zack]

Mmm, we won but not a lot to like at all. Another Brisbane selection night and another Brisbane selection performance. As great as he's been it is that simple some times. Easy game soft selections the aura of clarko the players know he thinks its a lay down mezeer… (can't be bothered getting mezeer right)

The good JOM came to Hawthorn apparently to play finals, last night he was close enough to the only reason we guaranteed finals. So he's already worth whatever picks we gave. Gunston was also good. As was Burton down back. Conor Nash perhaps has a future a big future as the tallest midget to hunt down players in tackles. Big Boy was good up forward not so much in the ruck.

I know a few others got stats late but to me it wasn't a great game but they were serviceable.

To the bad and there was heaps so I'll just cherry pick a few. Stratton been superb the past few weeks everyone had him all Australian, then he plays another game where he does little except kick to the opposition for free goals. Simply put, that is why he won't be AA he can't kick it's an embarrassing weakness for a bloke who has a lot of strengths. Been a huge fan of Schoe but last night after watching Conor Nash I have nothing, Conor provided the get out of Hale play or he contested in air or he tackled. Schoe provided less, Pup well Nash ran down twice as many as you so I also have nothing. Pittonet surprised he played but Clarko always gives guys two games so they fudged an injury to Ceglar to make it happen but god he's slow compared to Big Boy.

But we all know the real reason it was close, the barometer Ricky Henderson was also injured/rested whatever. But we struggled once again without him. Don't ask me why except for adding some run and speed to our club that this happens but it does, when Hill played (more correctly missed) it also happened and we won premierships so the run and carry is somehow useful.​

 

[JoondalupJ]

Off the boil. Saints are better than we think when they actually put an effort in. We still held out and held on. But a wake up call too, we were off the boil and better not be anymore.
But it really doesn't matter , to win the flag , got to beat the Tigers, who look very good, that's an understatement.

 

[Noneedforaname]

Nash was very lively, and composed. Like how he just got involved at times. Didnt sit back and wait for the game to come to him.

Wondering about his vision. Twice I was really surprised that he made really fantastic decisions and executed with handballs that were beyond what a 2nd gamer shoulda been able to do. I havent watched the game again yet, but one was after keeping the ball alive on the boundary, and having the vision and ability to pass to the target further than the standard rushed, handball under pressure disposal. Im sure it led to a goal. There was another similar effort intraffic, but cant recall yet. Great vision, great effort to make the play, great confidence in his own abilities at this stage to even try it. Exciting.

Tackling pressure is fantastic. His speed, mass, and knowing how to tackle are a magical combination. Even more impressed after watching the snippet above over and over. Nash had him dead in his sights, but pulled up enough to not destroy the hapless victim and give away a free for rough play. Looked rugby like, but ended up wrapping him up octopus like. Great skill in itself, but useful to know he will be able to unleash and create some real hurt if he wants to.

My highlight for the night was him just running amd stepping through a couple of witches hats mabe late in the 3rd, or early 4th? How many young kids just do that?
He knew they couldnt do anything even if they wanted to.

All the signs are good for mine. Frighteningly good. But I'm not above expecting him to have games like Glass did last night. They'll happen.

I'd be happy if one of these blokes came good, but I reckon we have a pair of keepers.

4 more points next week please.

 

[B&GBlood]

If / when we make him a better kick he could be anything

 

[MinerBoy]

A lot of praise for Worpel and also some respectful criticism of him. He had a fair game, was great in parts but also made some mistakes. 8 games in you'd take that to the bank any day.

And on this "female umpire" nonsense:
1) All umps make mistakes.
2) There is no "anti-Hawthorn" conspiracy.

I don't think she's a bad ump due to being female. She was just bad.... and because I don't care who the umps are that's how I would describe her if I wanted to point out an ump who was shocking...

* the girl ump
* the bald ump
* the curly headed ump
etc etc

 

[MinerBoy]

Schoenmakers has zero ability to apply defensive pressure and lock the ball in. Nash is faster tackles better gives better repeat efforts and finds more of the ball, after 2 games he is already a better player Han Schoenmakers. With Cegs and rough back their is no spot for shoey. Were people even watching last nights game.

Shoe made some great tackles that held the ball in Saturday night when if the ball was released we were in all sorts of poo. One really late in the game when it was all on the line.

Did you watch the game?

 

[Hawk88]

I don't have the stats on hand however I do have a theory we always have a "down" game after we play the cats

So wasn't surprised by our performance tonight and with the players coming back into the side in the next few weeks we will be hard to beat come finals

 

[grumbleguts]

I don't have the stats on hand however I do have a theory we always have a "down" game after we play the cats

So wasn't surprised by our performance tonight and with the players coming back into the side in the next few weeks we will be hard to beat come finals

During the curse, geelong only won something like 45% of their games following us. Even though overall they were running at 78% or something. So there should be some correlation the other way.

 

[MrPremiership]

Banked 4 points and rested key players.

Good result. Move on to next week.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Serious question:

Who deserves top 4 more Hawks or Swans?

Taking bias out.

Settle it on the field. Whoever wins Saturday night. No bias suppression required.

 

[Hawthorn23]

Highlights (including that Nash split between two defenders!)

 

[KermitJagger]

I don't have the stats on hand however I do have a theory we always have a "down" game after we play the cats

So wasn't surprised by our performance tonight and with the players coming back into the side in the next few weeks we will be hard to beat come finals

Our ills normally happen the week after we play the Swans, we have a very poor record of backing up the week after a Swans game.

 

[Spursfan]

Our ills normally happen the week after we play the Swans, we have a very poor record of backing up the week after a Swans game.

Lucky there is a week off after this week

 

[MrFujiMoto]

Good to get a win. I know it was a missed opportunity but the Saints have a truck load of talent. It is their adherence to structure and effort (Leading to what seems like terrible skills) that has been their main downfall.

With the heat they copped all week regarding their want to play for the coach and how much turmoil the club was going through, I was expecting they'd bring the heat and be a difficult proposition. If they played at their best every week, they would worry most side. they clubbed Richmond by 11 goals and lost the next 2 games by a combined 18 goals. It is always effort based with them. If they bring it, they are dangerous, regardless of who they play.

Great games from younger guys again. Nash was excellent, Worpel was Worpel, Harry was solid. Chip seemed worrying again, prior to the injury. Membrey and co were running rings around him (And some others at times). We need to fix up lazy turn overs in defense. Clarko will hopefully get that out of the boys this week.

So it looks like we will finish 4th (As long as we beat Sydney). The pies then likely have 2 trips to Perth in a row. We would take on the Tigers at the G. What a final. Reigning premiers against the once were heavyweight champs, now on the charge again. Might have to book tickets to Melbourne.

 

[Buzz Hawk]

meh. i didnt watch the game as i was at a bob dylan concert, which was torture enough.
we won, we banked the four points and we move on.
thats life. Swans beckon and i reckon we might be up for the contest.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I don't think she's a bad ump due to being female. She was just bad.... and because I don't care who the umps are that's how I would describe her if I wanted to point out an ump who was shocking...

* the girl ump
* the bald ump
* the curly headed ump
etc etc

The bald ump was the one who hosed us the most I felt - and I had to wonder if it was because Strats (I think it was him) carelessly kicked the ball away when the siren went for half time and the ball went straight into his crotch. Was pretty funny.

 

[MinerBoy]

The bald ump was the one who hosed us the most I felt - and I had to wonder if it was because Strats (I think it was him) carelessly kicked the ball away when the siren went for half time and the ball went straight into his crotch. Was pretty funny.

Well if he was bald the grudge against Strats would obviously be the mullet.

#folliclejealousy

 

[MinerBoy]

Well if he was bald the grudge against Strats would obviously be the mullet.

#folliclejealousy

NB: I wear my hair close to the scalp by choice