Autopsy Hawks vs Eagles

[Buckley00]

To all you Hawks supporters, you have a had great run, be proud of your club.
I can't wait for Carlton to hopefully be a top 4 team again just like Hawthorn.

 

[Sleutheren]

pants to the ankles

 

[Wundo]

Lots of players down tonight, would be easy to overreact and say cut them all but these games do happen - esp in front of a 40k rabid pro WC crowd

I worry about McEvoy against those mobile ruck types. He has been routinely smashed against guys that have any semblance of mobility (Lobbe, Ryder, NicNat) but fares a lot better against the bigger/solid types like Sandi/Pyke etc. Would rather have seen Ceglar play tonight but I guess he has missed too much footy.

Frawley just can't play forward. No one should be impressed that he kicked goals against the Lions or the Blues. If you're going to use him as a swing man he shouldn't be in the team - Schoenmakers does it better even if he is more maligned.

Suckling is a whipping boy, but for good reason. If hes not using his leg effectively he really isn't contributing anything to the team. He gives up 1-2 goals each week without fail (first 2 goals were given up cause of his poor kicking and then inability to hold his footing in a contest). Duryea is a better all round option imo and I cannot understand how Suckling is starting ahead of him. Even if Duryea is having a down game at least he is physical and goes hard at his opponent.

Thought Bruest, Burgoyne and Puopolo were all well down - but these guys have been really solid all yr, so its hard to be too down on them. Smith has also been amazing for us all season, but in hindsight probably should have been out for Hartung.

Lewis, Hill and Roughy are more concerning imo. Roughy has been fumbly and off for a few months now (side effects of cancer?), and Lewis is getting touches but seems ineffectual in most recent games to me. Barely noticed his output tonight. Hill has been terrible as long as I can remember this season. Not sure whats up with him because he has been a star for us. Its too late to not persist with him now though, especially if Smith is still hurt next week.

Lake is a warrior and I love what hes done for us, but he just didnt have a matchup tonight (happening a lot more this season sadly). Their big forwards are too quick for him. He shouldnt play against them again if we make it that far.

Rioli was amazing tonight. **** the haters, the guy is a champ and we would have been smacked a lot more without him.
Same can be said for Mitchell.

Hope to hell that Gunston isn't done for the yr, he will be our biggest loss in yrs if unavailable.

Great post. The indignation inside of me tries to kick up but you've said nothing that isn't true, though it's still disappointing. We're certainly going to have to do it the hard way, from here.

 

[Upgrayedd]

I liked lake's game. Not many defenders stop kennedy getting silver service.

He has an awesome few moments where hes kinda not left his man but applied pressure to a eagle running into goal. He saved us 2-3 goals. Ild sign hin up for 2016 for his effort tonight

Rioli great. Mitchell god like

Bit sour on breust. He was supposed to be our next gun player. Looking like hes a product of our forwardline.

This is why we need bennell

 

[EightyNineChamps]

That kick in by Suckling, Breust's poster, followed by another easy miss by Hale (I think) put us behind the eight ball right from the start. Had those gone our way, we may have been able to be a couple up at quarter time. Having said that they always seemed to have 2 or 3 free players to pass to. Some of our turn overs were not due to pressure, but carelessness. A bad loss, can we recover, I hope so.

And this is what Tigers, Port and others have worked out, we leak too many through the middle and with slingshots. I think the tweaking of the game plan is fine against some sides but not all.

We press far too hard and deep into our fifty, then we try to create the perfect goal with over use of the ball only to have the ball kicked quickly to an unmarked player through the middle and then BANG...

Our set ups tonight were unbelievable...

 

[detox]

So suspect against teams with leg speed. Without smith and Hill in form we are cooked. Let's look at our players

Hodge, Lewis, Mitchell for all their hardness are probably in the Top 5 slowest mids in the AFL.

Lake has no hope against a quick leading forward, Duryea and Gibson aren't overly quick.

Also, what is our game plan? We made no attempt to kick to targets tonight. We just bombed long to contested situations.

Then on the flip side, we play a zone that we can't execute. We are simply unable to defend fast ball movement and we saw it again tonight. Lack of pressure in locking the ball into our forward half.

Something has to give.

 

[Wundo]

Mate, I am sure that was a cracking post but it was just too long to read.

DO yourself a favour, read it. Best post I've read this evening.

 

[EightyNineChamps]

I know were all experts after the fact, but i really think we shot ourselves in the foot when we elected to kick with the wind in the first. Dermie's comments about the 1991 GF, when the eagles, who elected to kick with the wind, made a big mistake. Its a final. Players are nervous. And they take time to get into the game, meaning you waste your opportunity of scoring with the wind. And that's what happened.

Also someone said that finals are just a mirror of the problems you have faced all year. We had too many players go missing, tackling was woeful, forward set up was horrible and we just banged it in long.

I still believe we can win it, but maybe were just not good enough this year.

It's funny I was actually hoping we'd lose the toss thinking they would start with the breeze and we would finish with it.

Apart from some selection stuff ups it was obvious from the get go that their tackles were sticking and ours weren't, the amount of times they were able to release another player after being tackled was doing my head in...

The fact is that when they tackled us this prevented any fast transition going forward and then having to bomb to contests...FFS

 

[Wundo]

Wake up call to all and sundry - players, fans and recruiters. Much as we'd love to - you can't stay on top forever. Hard questions need to be asked - player who don't want to answer need to look elsewhere.

With Hartung looking the goods - Hill needs to be shopped. He's looked good in good sides - but that performance showed that he has downhill skier tendencies. We need someone hungrier and with better decision making abilities to be in the side in games like that. I've never talked like this about Hill before - but Jesus was that a wake up call tonight.

Again I've never been a McEvoy hater - and he did the job last year in the big one, thanks Big Boy - but time to see if we can do something else ruck wise.

When a hungrier, younger and under strength side humbles you in a Q/F - it's a big sign of what's to come. Bullets need to be bitten. Even if we make another GF via the next two games / the writing is on the wall after tonight.

We're all disappointed mate. Not sure that throwing the baby out with the bathwater, then selling the taps, bath, shower, and killing the plumber, will help.
Point is, all players make mistakes and have fluctuations in form, as do teams. Maybe this is the start of our decline from what has been a wonderful few years. But maybe it's an aberration and we'll bounce back, we don't yet know. I just hate it when individuals are singled out in a team game.

 

[Wundo]

TLDR: Most were passengers, and I was just venting

Was a great post, don't undersell yourself.

 

[Jaeger]

**** I'm gutted. That was so frustrating.

 

[Wundo]

I'm soooooo happy I live in WA....

Excuse while I vomit

It's going to be a tough week mate. At least it's not a GF that we lost- though the media will carry on like it was. And we're in all sorts if Freo win, too.
I work FIFO and am back up north Monday morning, where I can work 12 hour days and avoid all media (BF the exception), so I have that going for me.
Otherwise I'd have to resort to sticking my head in the sand!

 

[Off The Couch]

Clarkson appeared to want to try something different thinking it would throw the Eagles off.
Simpson stuck with what has worked for them and it was then Clarko who was on the back foot and plan B has never been a strong point.


It doesn't get any easier with another hawk coaching next week if the dogs get up tomorrow

 

[S Lawrence]

Hawthorn paying $4 now for the flag. Despite everything those odds seem very good!

 

[HawthornHawk]

The way we were tackling left me thinking we must have a lot of guys just physically not up to it right now for whatever reason. Unfortunately don't think it's our year.

I was getting frustrated by Roughead's performance during the game and can see several posts having a go at him, but I think we need to take a look at the bigger picture, realise what the guy has gone through this year and see that we're lucky that he's even stepping on the field at the moment

 

[EightyNineChamps]

Hawthorn paying $4 now for the flag. Despite everything those odds seem very good!

That is way unders from where we are now I'm afraid. Should be more like 14

 

[Wundo]

No thanks, he's no good, get something for him while we can. Don't tell me he's a hard worker, I work hard too but I don't get paid 350k a year to drop chesty's.

This season Liam has been one of our most consistent performers. But there isn't a player on the team who hasn't dropped a simple mark and/or cost us a goal. But no one player has ever costs us a game.
Because there are so many contests leading to any one moment. It always shits me when commentators say something like "they missed three set shots in that quarter, they could have cut the lead/extended their lead by blah blah. It's crap. Score a point, it's a kick in from the goal square. Score a goal, it's back to the middle. Kick any one of the three missed shots and it goes back to the middle, instead of from the goal square, and who knows then, what happens?

 

[Isosceles]

I've read every post of this thread. What a pathetic bunch you lot are. Trade Shiels?? Trade Hill? Hodge is shit captain?? Season over?? It was a horrible game no doubt but **** me these guys have won the last two flags. How about a little respect. You can't win them every year, you just can't. We've been the hunted for three seasons and won 2 with still a shot at winning a third. Forget tonight. Move on to next week. Then and only then should we judge the boys on what's happened last night. Just remember, they, the players, owe you nothing so stop acting like they do. And suggesting a guy like Lewis isn't hurting from tonight is absolutely laughable. 3peat still on. Get around them.

 

[Wundo]

I know were all experts after the fact, but i really think we shot ourselves in the foot when we elected to kick with the wind in the first. Dermie's comments about the 1991 GF, when the eagles, who elected to kick with the wind, made a big mistake. Its a final. Players are nervous. And they take time to get into the game, meaning you waste your opportunity of scoring with the wind. And that's what happened.

Also someone said that finals are just a mirror of the problems you have faced all year. We had too many players go missing, tackling was woeful, forward set up was horrible and we just banged it in long.

I still believe we can win it, but maybe were just not good enough this year.

When I finish up here on BF I'll go look at stats and the like, read what "professional" writers have to say about the game but I haven't done that yet so I'm basing my opinions on what I saw at the game and with respect to tackling, I thought we laid a good amount. But we seemed to not be able to stop WCE players hand balling to a team-mate. Whether it's kudos to them for standing up in the tackle, or our technique was poor or some combination, it was evident to me that our tackling was not effective as it could have been.

 

[Farang83150]

Frawley out for Spang next week, hopefully Gunston not too bad, thing is we get a crack next week at the winner of Dogs and Crows then off to Perth again assuming the Dockers win tomorrow, honestly feel we can beat them, if we get the chance, and playing west coast on the G I give us a chance


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Your'll roll us at the G.

 

[Mervyn Beasley]

Havent given up just yet, however, I believe we are being beaten in the coaches box more than anywhere else at the moment.
All of our significant losses have been similarly themed.
Mega pressure forcing kick n hope and keep our runners and precision kickers out of the game.

I been watching it closely. opposition have been watching it too.

Yes our best is good, but I dont think our best is particularly feasible against the new breed at the moment.
Pundits, punters, commentators etc just dont seem to have the balls to completely write us off just yet.

Only history is keeping us in the game at the moment.
There is nothing in the present to get me excited nor confident Im afraid.

 

[Farang83150]

i hope you see freo in october and get pantsed on the G enjoy your little dream cause I think theres one more twist in the road...now move along

What a a bloke.

 

[Kuuz]

I feel sorry for Mitch a bit like I felt sorry for Crawfs all those years without a premiership.. Mitch gives and gives and hodge has the audacity as captain to drink drive... Mmm the clubs in great shape... Mitch would never of done that... Not a fan of hodge never have been

Easy there. He may have screwed up, but Hodgey is one of the great warriors for our club. He didn't earn his two Norm Smiths by screwing around when it counted.

His 2008 GF performance was sublime. Single-handedly disarmed the Geelong forward line. Was beaut to watch. Watching him smash the Swans last year was also quite tasty.

I understand you're pissed. But Hodge, although screwing up two weeks ago, has plenty of chips in the plus column to not get carried away and say he's a negative influence on our club. Show some class mate.

 

[OhhhhhCyril]

Easily one of the worst games I had to sit through, I don't have many positives to point out, god help who ever we play next week I am sure we will be pissed off.

 

[WCEswift]

hope no one asked nn about his mum. he seems kind of emotional...

Sorry for the intrusion but i think he just got overwhelmed. Credit to your boys for coming up and giving him a hug after, Cyril Hodgey and Mitchell were the ones i saw.