Autopsy Hawks vs Eagles

[Bikefreak]

You might find the extra game can help play us into better form. I genuinely dont see this loss as being a catastrophe. Gunston's knee/ankle isn't ideal but Schoenmakers will have to come in and show us how much he wants that premierships he was deprived pf the past 2 seasons. As Clarko said, you work hard for the double chance so lets take advantage of it and move on knowing that we're 3 good performances (against teams we have comprehensively beaten this season) away from winning 3 in a row. There is still a sting in this tail. Don't worry about that.

Just like some of our players who have missed games from suspensions.....positively shit when they return.

#needtoplayeveryweek

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[Bikefreak]

Well, there is no doubt now, WC supporters are the worst kind of human beings alive.

geeze their mothers must be proud.

Have experienced those ferals first hand having once lived in Perth for 12 whole yrs.
Biased, moronic, latte sipping, bandwagonners with very little class some of them.

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[Bikefreak]

We can forget about the flag. Let's be realistic, this wasn't a "small" loss, this was the way we looked against Tigers and port! And the margins are getting bigger . It was a Final ffs!! How on earth can we be optimistic when our coach says it like he thought 'we made mistakes with hand and foot, let them dictate the contest!' Wow! I hope we don't get too cocky about next week, even then , back to bloody Perth and Freo will NOT be accommodating! We have completely stuffed up our season it seems. Lake and frawley cannot be in the same team, we have been slow with our rebound from D50!

I have been saying Lakey is cooked all season....and many were saying he has another year in him......nah not even at BHH.

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[Bikefreak]

We can forget about the flag. Let's be realistic, this wasn't a "small" loss, this was the way we looked against Tigers and port! And the margins are getting bigger . It was a Final ffs!! How on earth can we be optimistic when our coach says it like he thought 'we made mistakes with hand and foot, let them dictate the contest!' Wow! I hope we don't get too cocky about next week, even then , back to bloody Perth and Freo will NOT be accommodating! We have completely stuffed up our season it seems. Lake and frawley cannot be in the same team, we have been slow with our rebound from D50!

I have been saying Lakey is cooked all season....and many were saying he has another year in him......nah not even at BHH.

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[Bikefreak]

According to Clarko, that was our best team folks! Probably our worst effort ... but definitely our best team. As others have said, our performance was insipid & our coaching left me very very confused! I think some of it comes back to hunger & reward for effort. Complacency is bound to set in when you've been up for so long & the selection committee continually rewards mediocrity. You know who I'm talking about.

I mean, rucks aside who is genuinely competing for their spot? It's been "jobs for the boys" all year with most forced changes stemming from injuries. Many of us banged on about our amazing depth at the start of the year but unfortunately we have rarely gone to the well. Our club talks about every player having a role & peripheral players understanding that when they come in ... but Is it true? It appears to be true for West Coast & the Bulldogs but is it true for us? I don't know because I rarely see these peripheral players.

I think Clarko is a great innovative coach but is he being too cute? Rather than having players master a specific role & conquer their opponents, he would prefer our boys to play a variety of roles. Whilst this makes us less predictable it seems to compromise our structures & then we struggle.
Rather than try & inject youth & perhaps some enthusiasm he perseveres, we get found out & then he backs his boys in. Then it starts all over again the following week & we try to make a few minor adjustments with those soldiers with "credits in the bank.".

I liked the look of Howe last week, I thought Ceglar was a chance & Hartung was the obvious Smith replacement. I love Spangher & Jed's enthusiasm as well. Would one or two of them being brought in mean that we win? I doubt it ... but seriously ... could it have gone any worse? The Eagles tenacity & structures killed us & their effort was inspiring! As much as I hated it, perhaps they showed us why we've been a little frustrating (from a Hawthorn perspective) this year. It might be because they are genuinely playing for their spots & each other.

I'm thinking just the "cupboard is bare".

Time for a cleanout and a restock.

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[tige19]

No. Didn't see it. My mate is a Breust basher and sent me a message when Breust went under a ball that clearly went over his head. I assume you mean that one. Didn't think it was a mark chance at all but I'll stand to be corrected if I see footage of it again that shows me otherwise.

I reckon it was clear he didn't go at the footy like he should.. A dead give away is arms extended and head tilting, if that was Hodge/Riewoldt they would have launched into the on-coming traffic. I didn't expect that from Punky but I expected him to show a bit of urgency, it was a critical time.

 

[Hawkas1988]

I reckon it was clear he didn't go at the footy like he should.. A dead give away is arms extended and head tilting, if that was Hodge/Riewoldt they would have launched into the on-coming traffic. I didn't expect that from Punky but I expected him to show a bit of urgency, it was a critical time.

Yeh exactly right. He didn't wanna go and fully put himself on the line. So frustrating.

 

[BC__]

2 flags and clinging at a chance for a third on the trot is an amazing effort. Be proud people. Cheer your hardest as the mass clean out/retirements rebuild of a list has it's ups and downs.

 

[Marmik]

Hey, what is the news on Gunston? Will he be playing next week?

 

[benneth]

You tend to "know" early if the boys are on or not and it may sound stupid by Breust hitting the post in the first minute just made me think, "not tonight". It is precision time, execution time, and that was port. It didn't lose us the game but it set the tempo, a marker and in some ways is representative of our season. Not 100% when need! too much relying on this to happen rather than making them happen.

Is it hunger?Drive? Passion? I don't know but all of these were missing as were our famed skills. Eagles ran more, harder and pressed more. Disappointing.

And that roughhead shank when streaming down the wing. A lot of those turn overs at half forward weren't even forced.

 

[lickmerocks]

Can someone please send this to Al and ask him to print off and hang up in the players dressing room this week?

I will start with the positives-

Lake 6/10-saved us big time in the first half from more of a hiding. Not his fault Clarko asks him to try and win us the game as a forward in the second half.

Mitchell 7/10-kept trying his guts out when we were being smashed.

Rioli 5/10-first qtr kept us close with his energy and bounce but did make some crucial errors by foot during the night.

Hale 5/10- thought he really tried hard all night and was surprised when they took him off.

Hodge 5/10 thought he was poor in the first half as the skipper but tried hard in the second and had a dip.

Now for the rest-
Suckling 2/10 missed kicks and fell over the moment body pressure came near him. (Omitted)

Frawley 2/10 he is an all Australian defender and we think cause he kicks a couple of goals against Carlton and Brisbane he must be an all Australian forward

Big Boy 2/10 has zero physical presence on the ground. His miss in the first qtr from 35 out was bordering on embarrassing in a final (omitted this week)

Brad Hill 2/10 no run and no energy. Had a few soft cheapies against the blues and Lions and thought everything was hunky dory.

Smith 2/10 Was like a statue when the heat was on. Got a couple of late kicks when the Eagles were planning there golf day tomorrow. Poor decision by our club to play him.

Breust 1/10 poor poor performance from Punky. Didn't go when he had to a few times and made poor decisions with the ball. His miss at the start of the game was dreadful also.

Roughead 2/10 gets a point for his first qtr mark and a point for running through the banner. Butchered the ball by foot, hand balled to Eagles players and dropped marks.

Lewis 3/10 Gave the ball up last night fearing body contact in tight and this should be highlighted. Get him back on the angry pills.

Liam Shiels 4/10 tried to be competitive and lay some tackles etc but overall his kicking was atrocious. His miss from 35 directly in front at the start of the third was poor.

Gunston 3/10 limited opportunities all night but tried to get up the ground and help out.

Langford 3/10 holds the ball up far too long and can't seem to hit targets anymore.

Birchal 2/10 has zero body presence as a defender and clubs are now exploiting him and suckling deep as a very weak link. His kicking last night was bordering on embarrassing.

Burgoyne 4/10 I think we need to now utilise this guys class forward of the centre more often as he kicks goals when he gets opportunities.

Gibbo 4/10 serviceable and tried hard but made some poor decisions

Stratton 2/10 not sure what's happened to Ben but the once reliable Ben now slips over, fumbles misses targets and flys for balls when he needs to mind his man

Poppy 4/10 no real influence but always buries in for the team and works his backside off

Duryea why oh why is Doc a fricken sub? I know he cuts the ayers hair each week but he is no super sub. He has never been an impact player that will turn a game so why have him as sub. He is either good enough to play a role starting or he plays at Box Hill.

Summary/ 2/10 very un Hawthorn like. Out hunted, energy levels poor players wearing wrong boots and slipping over all the time, match ups poor.

 

[tige19]

I'd love for Clarko to do somthing dramatic and send out word that evey player at Hawthorn is on the trade table, no one is off limits. I don't think we should trade chunks of players but I'd be interested to see how our guys are rated by the opposition.. Who knows what could be on offer!

Does anyone know if Suckling is re-signing? It was bleedinly obvious that we have a bunch of individuals that when hunted throw some netball bibs on and run scared.

Birchall
Suckling
Bruest
Hill
Frawley

Those 5 are particularly useless under physical harassment and the opposition knows it.

Lewis
Ruff
Mcevoy
Stratton
Gibson

Those seemed prehistoric and pedestrian compared to the Eagles boys, all looked slow physically and mentally.. The difference in athletic ability was mind boggling.

 

[randall boner]

Anyone notice Bruest shit himself when he was running for a chest mark 20 Mtrs? Anyone who's played foory will know it's a shit feeling but you just have to do it, especially in a final. Punky clearly ducked his head, he didn't want to extend for the footy. He looks like he's skirting around the contests

Stood out like dogs balls in the first qtr set the tone really

 

[grumbleguts]

I know were all experts after the fact, but i really think we shot ourselves in the foot when we elected to kick with the wind in the first. Dermie's comments about the 1991 GF, when the eagles, who elected to kick with the wind, made a big mistake. Its a final. Players are nervous. And they take time to get into the game, meaning you waste your opportunity of scoring with the wind. And that's what happened.

Also someone said that finals are just a mirror of the problems you have faced all year. We had too many players go missing, tackling was woeful, forward set up was horrible and we just banged it in long.

I still believe we can win it, but maybe were just not good enough this year.

Dermies comments were with respect to a sunny day where no rain was forecast. Rain typically negates wind so use it while it's dry is the mantra. But Dermie was right in the 1991 instance.

 

[SA HAWK]

Does anyone know if Suckling is re-signing? It was bleedinly obvious that we have a bunch of individuals that when hunted throw some netball bibs on and run scared.

Bloody well hope not.

 

[Tyrone Time]

common theme here.
clarkson's stubbornness is his undoing at times.
pity the players dont back in the coach like he does them.

 

[TBoyleSuperstar]

I would have broken the telly over a game like that in that last few years. But I was sad rather than angry last night, it was almost weird, I think I saw my side declining in front of me. As Clarko said I do not think the endeavour was too bad. We simply were not skilled enough to handle the opposition, pressure, conditions etc

I do not know if out ‘best is good enough’ anymore. I do not think we have improved from last year. We are collectively an old team. Hence we cannot keep improving, we can only collectively decline. I also think the other teams have caught up to us. We should have blooded more youngsters over the year to give us a different look, play a different style or bring some sort of point of difference.

Unfortunately this has not happened and Clarko is part of the problem here. I was not surprised by him saying that he is ‘going to back the boys in’. What else can he say? IT is too late in the year to start bringing in new players. Seriously can anyone actually see a Howe, Anderson, Litherland etc actually getting picked for a sudden death final after only playing a handful of games? Maybe Spangher (who is going to be underdone) and Hartung are the only chances.

So that’s it boys and girls. We are stuck with essentially same side as last year that is playing far worse than last year when the some of the competition has caught us and probably gone past us in general play and a few tactics.

So can they improve from last night and somehow win three more games? Probably not. However, while we cannot bring 3 or 4 hard bodied quick midfielders, or couple of key position players (forward or back) that can actually mark what I do want to see, for at least one more week is this:

- please stop handballing the ball to each other from a stoppage situation in the forward 50 when you are free. JUST TAKE THE A SHOT ON GOAL

- Clarko, for %&**sake stop playing Suckling as a defender.

- And stop playing Frawley as a forward

- To put your body on the line and actually pick up the ball and handball to your teammates rather than trying to knock it on, or try cute little flicks.

- Oh and Breust to stop trying to find the 2nd or 3rd option and getting caught. Has happened all year. Take the first option

I see shades of Geelong 2010. An ageing team, that needs a rejuvenation of youth to get to run back into some old blokes legs. Sicily, Howe, Anderson to name a few, not wholesale changes, just need to start handing the baton over a bit. Also gotta factor in the toll making 3 GFs takes on players. Add to that a prelim in 2011 and most of these blokes have been playing footy deep into September for 5 years now.

From last night, you'd say Lake, and Hale are done for next year. On that, Frawley goes back and Sicily takes the forward spot, Cegs comes in. Suckling out is likely with Howe taking his spot. Anderson will push for a spot, though not sure who's.

We don't need an overhaul, just a tweak here and there.

 

[Cleavy]

needed to make the most of every chance and every half-chance in finals. Didn't do it.

 

[hawk for 37]

After all this stuff has been said on how crap we are, which was true, combine the scores from the 1st, 3rd and 4th quarters and we won them by a point.

They got off the chain in the latter half of the 2nd and 3rd and made us look second rate.

No one has really mentioned the Breust, Roughead and Big Boy misses in the first. They were massive. Turn 3 goals up at Quarter time and we win the game!

Throw in the horror Suckling turnover and the horrendous umpiring blunder to gift them the 50m and goal (how any umpire can get sucked in by a player refusing to catch the ball when it is thrown back to him is beyond me) and it is a cliffhanger in the last.

Anyway, just a different take on it.

 

[TBoyleSuperstar]

2 flags and clinging at a chance for a third on the trot is an amazing effort. Be proud people. Cheer your hardest as the mass clean out/retirements rebuild of a list has it's ups and downs.

Stop asking for clarity, common sense and reason the day after a finals loss!

That will come on Monday/Tuesday when we calm down a bit

 

[SA HAWK]

After all this stuff has been said on how crap we are, which was true, combine the scores from the 1st, 3rd and 4th quarters and we won them by a point.

They got off the chain in the latter half of the 2nd and 3rd and made us look second rate.

No one has really mentioned the Breust, Roughead and Big Boy misses in the first. They were massive. Turn 3 goals up at Quarter time and we win the game!

Throw in the horror Suckling turnover and the horrendous umpiring blunder to gift them the 50m and goal (how any umpire can get sucked in by a player refusing to catch the ball when it is thrown back to him is beyond me) and it is a cliffhanger in the last.

Anyway, just a different take on it.

Forget the last quarter the game was done at 3/4 time the last quarter was junk.

Agree the misses in the 1st quarter were big we could have had some momentum but lost the chance.

Suckling should never put on a Hawthorn jumper again soft as butter and terrible decision making under pressure.

You don't give the ball back properly you pay the price.

 

[MadDawg]

Well I've just woken up with a bad headache and the feeling our club is in huge trouble I actually fear for 2016 clarko has been worked out ... He has no new ideas.. How could lewis play so bad in one season? And there's others

Shattered

Clarko always has new ideas but sometimes he stubbornly gets stuck on one.

In '09 and start of '10 it was not changing the game plan regardless of results.

In '15 its been not changing the personal regardless of form - the lack thereof of some senior players and ignoring door-pounding of BH players.

I'm sure he'll get it right going forward but it may have cost us this year, although in saying that I still like our draw going forward.

 

[zacattack]

1) The forward line is not really functioning well this year against stronger back lines, missing too many shots, no one leading up fast, if not for Rioli no major Kennedy-like true KPF as Roughead having a shocker. In this regard did not understand why Schoenmakers was dropped vis-a-vis Frawley in forward line. Meanwhile, too late now to introduce them to senior level regularly, Sicily and esp Grimley have been kicking bucket loads in Box Hill
2) still have nightmares of Murphy running unko against Nic Nat in that rain swept game years ago - the backline have to stop falling over/doing unko things at critical moments - in that regard what is wrong with Litherland/Heatherly/Spanger (too late now to introduce them)
3) We do not have a "next generation" taller/fast inside midfielder coming through ala Fyffe/Pridis although again there are some players week in week out who have been toiling their guts out at Box Hill eg Howe/O'Rourke/Simpkin/Jed who would kill for a game
I dearly wish Clarko would do a Beveridge and pick on form only as Box Hill possibly heading towards another premiership, too late. He gave another crap generic post match replies, and all of the above have been regular weak link themes against the very best fast teams...


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[LuvMyHawks]

Unfortunately, I have no faith in our team like I did last year. They really wanted to win that cup, but this year they just didn't put their heart in it. They seemed lethargic, and disinterested, let the bottom teams beat us, fgs,we only played the Scum and got beaten by them, ugh. (Can see Tirds smile last night)If we had played the Box Hill DEVELOPMENT team last night, they would have flogged us too. (Good luck to them,they are unbeaten this year.Well done BHH Dev.)Lets hope we make the GF and WIN when the BHH VFL team play. Well done to them too. If we play either Crows or Bulldogs, this week, they will put us out this year. We have to accept the fact we are simply not playing good enough, injuries,yes,can't mark,yes,can't kick goals,yes. IMO, I think the DUI charge has affected Hodge, maybe embarassed,lack of concentrate, the hackling from those eagle peanuts.Seeing and hearing this by our players must be on their minds too. Hope I am very,very,wrong

 

[5ammy]

Anyone notice Bruest shit himself when he was running for a chest mark 20 Mtrs? Anyone who's played foory will know it's a shit feeling but you just have to do it, especially in a final. Punky clearly ducked his head, he didn't want to extend for the footy. He looks like he's skirting around the contests

Yep I noticed that too, disappointing effort. His night went pretty much downhill from the moment he hit the post running in to the goal square in the opening minutes. Breusty doesn't miss those.