Hawthorn’s 1971 Flag Triumph

[Lord Mud of Glenferrie]

These are typical of the headlines and stories of the day

Well I would not really expect any thing else from Bob Davis.Either before or after the 1963 grand final,he reputedly did kill a hawk (bird that is)

 

[Lord Mud of Glenferrie]

An interesting exercise is to compare the ages with the 2008 team.My statistician and general know all assures me that both sides were the same average age.

In fact there are many similarities with the 2008 side.It is kind of like spot the difference

 

[Lord Mud of Glenferrie]

Re: Civilisation’s 10 Most Glorious Achievements – Hawthorn’s 1971 Flag

Mr MUD, you might not have run onto the ground in 71 when Huddo got his 100th , but in one of the clips Gizz put up after Huddo kicked his 100th I can see one of your mates standing right next to Huddo on the ground, so if he was on the ground I bet you were to. Can't see your funny looking head though.


At least I did not run onto the field to touch my hero,only to be bowled over by him and then trampled by the entire team.Some people will do anything to get on TV

 

[The BIG X]

This is great thanks LM.

The reading of the articles is fascinating and bringing back so many memories

Like Michael Moncrieff - big marking DEFENDER

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Like Michael Moncrieff - big marking DEFENDER

Yep, Moncrieff began as a defender but migrated forward when Hudson was injured. He played defence again in 1977 when Hudson returned for 1 season.

 

[Old school Hawk]

Re: Civilisation’s 10 Most Glorious Achievements – Hawthorn’s 1971 Flag

I looked around and studied the terraces on the railway side with the obligatory whistle blowing train rattling past, took in the sight of the grandstands that would be more appropriate at an English test cricket ground, measured the pocket less, long skinny grassless playing field and then I saw (or smelt) that mud, that glorious Glenferrie mud. That stinking gluepot of moisture and nameless sediments, that murky morass so reviled by opposition faint hearts, critised by comfortably seated commentators and detested by the dainty men in white who quickly resembled the mud men of New Guinea.

While never seeing a game at Glenferrie, I too was brought up as a 4th generation Hawker with the myth of Glenferrie embedded in my young mind by countless story's told by Grandparents, Uncles, Aunties & my Father. After the round 17 loss to Geelong in 2008, my Brother & I put Linda Crescent in the G.P.S. & took my Father back to the "Mudheap."
As we walked in, past Tuckys stand, he went very silent & tears welled in his eyes, as I soaked up the history of the place, 2 things stood out to me,
The "Pocketless, skinny playing field" & the smell of the mud, that was overturned in the goalsquare in which the the young Auskick kids were having a ball in.
The place was legendary as a "stinking gluepot" & with this paragraph above you brought that beatiful stench back to my senses. How myth & reality can intertwine.
That trip, in 2008, became the "GLENFERRIE SOUL REUNION TOUR" for my Father, Brother & I.

 

[Slayer]

Re: Civilisation’s 10 Most Glorious Achievements – Hawthorn’s 1971 Flag

At least I did not run onto the field to touch my hero,only to be bowled over by him and then trampled by the entire team.Some people will do anything to get on TV

Yea....... but at least I was on TV for my 10 seconds of fame.


Anyway, didn't we have a young bloke playing reserves that year at FF who would end up going on to play the most VFL/AFL games in history. One M. Tuck rings a bell.

Also what happened to this team apart from Knights prior to the GF and Huddo in RD 1 72.


Did a heap of players leave, loose form or get injured, because it was a young team and apart from Tuck, Kelvin Matthews and Moncrieff who were all in the 71 reserves there was only 6 players from the 71 side who would go on to the 76 flag.
Bremner 24yrs
Martello 19yrs
L. Matthews 19yrs
Moore 21yrs
Rice 20yrs
Scott 23yrs
(Kinghts injured in 71 of course and Huddo in 72)
And of course we know what happened to the 'Little fella', but what about the rest.
Parkin 28yrs
Angus 23yrs
Beck 31yrs
Bussell 26yrs
Day 27yrs
Hawken 21yrs
Heath 21yrs
Keddie 25yrs
Meagher 27yrs
Porter 25yrs
Stevenson 22yrs
Wilson 26yrs
(there ages listed are from 71)
If you take out because of age; Parkin 28yrs, Beck 31yrs, Bussell 26yrs, Day 27yrs, Meagher 27yrs, Wilson 26yrs, then what happened to the rest; Heath 21yrs, Hawken 21yrs, Angus 23yrs, Stevenson 22yrs, Porter 25yrs and Keddie 25yrs.


Also apart from the disastrous injuries to Huddo and Knights, why wasn't this team up there in 72 and 73 when K. Matthews, M. Tuck and Moncrieff started to come into the side as well as Geoff Ablett, John Hendrie and Knights came back from injury.


Long winded I know but I just want to find out if there was more then just Huddo going down that made this team slip or to prove to people the difference just this one player made.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Another factor, Keddie joined West Adelaide (SANFL) as captain coach in 1973.

I think the huge factor was Hudson going down in round 1 1972. Hypothetically, had he decided he'd done what he set out to do (win a flag) and returned home, the Hawks would have had the entire summer and pre-season to come up with a game plan to offset the loss if Hudson.

When he went down, he'd kicked 8 of Hawthorn's 9 goals, so that gives an idea of how dominant he was, and how much the Hawks depended on him.

As it was, our entire forward structure was based around one man, with the assistance of some very capable midfielders moving the ball long and direct into the forward area.

Moncrieff didn't settle into FF until round 17, and although he kicked 32 goals in 5 games, the damage was done. The bottom line is, you just can't replace a 150 goal FF, and devise an entire new forward structure overnight.

Younger people may not realise, but it was Hawthorn's style of swamping the middle and keeping the forward line open for Hudson that hastened the introduction of the centre diamond, later to become the centre square.

 

[Scream]

The knowledge and passion in this thread is unbelievable, thanks very much for your insights and descriptions

 

[moginie]

The mental images that LMoG & grizzlym have provided are priceless. I really like the one of Lord Mud & wife singing the Hawthorn song over & over again.

Who was the famous author who came to your father's aid grizz? My first thought was Manning Clark, but he's more a historian. Peter Carey maybe?

Thanks to all who've contributed & for all the newspaper footage that has been kept.

 

[Jane Doe]

This is great thanks LM.

The reading of the articles is fascinating and bringing back so many memories

Like Michael Moncrieff - big marking DEFENDER

Michael Moncrieff was one of my favourite players growing up as akid. I always thought he did not always get the credit for the great player he was.

He kicked over 600 goals and and spent alot of his time in the backline.

Also great thread guys brings back alot of memories!

 

[grizzlym]

Rusty's account of the 1976 Flag will be up tomorrow night. We'll keep all three threads open through Xmas, 'cause we know there's a heap of people who have stuff to add who haven't yet!

 

[Lord Mud of Glenferrie]

On the left is the complete list for 1971.Some interesting names including G McCarthy,Kelvin Mathews and one Michael Tuck.

On the right is the reserve grade goal kickers list and if you look close enough you can see M Tuck in third position with 53 goals.


I can't recall what the Arnott"s trophy was for.Maybe for first and reserve grade points added together.Could someone help me out here.[/U]U][/U][/U]

 

[Lord Mud of Glenferrie]

Mike's debut game at Lake Oval against South Melbourne in round 5.He was flying even then, albeit the wrong way.

Glenferrie Oval always copped criticism for being a mud heap.Well I would always prefer to see a game there than at Lake Oval after rain.

Lake Oval was a lake that day.Huddo still booted a few though.

 

[grizzlym]

Not wrong, LMG. The Lake Oval certainly lived up to its name. I once saw a game there and the only way to have stayed dry would have been to wear fishing waders. Funny about Glenferrie Oval though, I had few runs on it in the 80s and it was a magnificent surface.

 

[Lord Mud of Glenferrie]

Glenferrie was different.No matter how much rain, it remained "muddy" and had the reputation as the Gluepot.Well,that mud stuck to everything including the ball.

Even in dreadful conditions that glue allowed players to mark and handle the ball,thus providing a reasonable spectacle.Whereas all other grounds were so water logged that there was no chance of seeing any football.Plenty of wading,but little football.

Actually the critics of Glenferrie Oval had no idea of what they were talking about It was just another Hawthorn bash.

When it was dry it was like concrete.That is what did Huddo.

 

[RustyHawk]

On the left is the complete list for 1971.Some interesting names including G McCarthy,Kelvin Mathews and one Michael Tuck.

On the right is the reserve grade goal kickers list and if you look close enough you can see M Tuck in third position with 53 goals.


I can't recall what the Arnott"s trophy was for.Maybe for first and reserve grade points added together.Could someone help me out here.[/U]U][/U][/U]

Interesting to see 9th down the reserves goal kicking list was MATTHEWS 32. I assume that would brother Kelvin.

Some good footballers there. Norm Bussell, Charlie Grummisch, Gene Chiron and was it Peter Chilton?

 

[The BIG X]

This is great thanks LM.

The reading of the articles is fascinating and bringing back so many memories

Like Michael Moncrieff - big marking DEFENDER

Actually should have been as he made his name as a very good Full forward following on from Huddo

 

[the walloper]

I attended quite a few games in 1971 but missed the finals. I really enjoyed replaying it with Lord Mud's commentary.
Not enough is made of the absolute belting that Hudson copped. His ear was literally hanging by threads of skin. I have a few old papers from the 1971 GF stored somewhere and there is a photo with Huddo's ear in pieces. Don't worry about Lethal getting 8 weeks, the Cowboy would have got 10! No doubt it was in St Kilda's gameplan to disable Huddo. We saw the effect in 1972, 73, 74 when Huddo was out. He was our forward line.

Don Scott was always underrated as a ruckman. His skills were often described as poor but he became a reliable goalkicker late in his career. While Matthews is the best player I've seen, by a long way too, Scooty was unbelievably influential at Hawthorn and would turn games through selfless acts.

The backline was tough...Bremner was just a hard man and allowed Moore to be a finesse(70's style) backman who would back his judgement and take important contested marks. While I love Langford, Kel Moore was as good a full-back. Parko has always been underestimated as a back pocket. Rarely beaten in the days when top rovers would rest in the forward pocket. No interchange!

Thanks for the memories!

 

[the walloper]

Just another short note, No.17 J. Lewis was a terrific full-back from Claremont who would have been an outstanding player but for having K Moore in front of him. Lewis is a top fella and I was lucky to work with him and when I coached a senior team I got him to come and run a few sessions and speak to the boys. He had lots to offer a novice like me.

 

[Lord Mud of Glenferrie]

Slayer, I think that Adelaide Hawk answered the question. The only thing that I would add is that the side had very little depth. As AH described, Hudson going down was a disaster. It forced not only a change in game plan, but also upset the team balance in the search for Huddo’s replacement. The first choice full forward was Kevin Heath, a very good player who, whilst getting his hands to the ball often enough, was a dreadful shot on goal.

Many players were tried at full forward including Peter Knights and then Michael Tuck. As AH points out, it was not until Moncrieff went there that some stability was achieved.

Further about the lack of depth. The side suffered many injuries. Hawken and Day never fully recovered from their grand final injuries. Stevenson, who looked a terrific prospect, did not reproduce his form from 1971 and, to a lesser degree, the same can be said about Rice. Martello played most of 1972 with a shoulder injury received from a huge bump by Sam Kechovich in a game against North Melbourne. It took Knights a couple of years to overcome his knee injury.

Whilst the likes of Peter Chilton, Gene Chiron, and Charlie Grummisch played some good football, they were never going to be regulars in a top team. In addition, the big things expected from Lindsay Tipping and others did not eventuate.

It was not until the development of Brian Douge, Kelvin Mathews and of course Moncrieff and Tuck, and the recruitment of the underrated Barry Rowlings, Geoff Ablett and Rodney Eade that the club recovered sufficiently to once again challenge for a flag.


A couple of odd bits. Michael Tuck, playing at CHF kicked four goals with his first four touches in his first game.Now! My memory is that this was achieved playing against Geelong at Waverley. Sam Newman went on to Tuck to “stem the flow”, which he did. Every record that I can find states that this was achieved against Richmond. Can someone confirm who is right?


Walloper, you are so correct in the fact that St Kilda went out to get Hudson.

I am pleased that AH raised the issue of the rule change.1972 was the first of many rule changes that the VFL/AFL introduced after a Hawthorn Premiership.

Kennedy had as many players as possible around the centre bounce to clear space for Hudson. The authorities did not like this and introduced the first of many centre bounce rule changes. See the attached image.

One other thing, many people who never saw Hudson play may get the wrong idea about the team feeding him the ball. The “feeding” was a mixture of mongrel punts, dribbles and, in general, awful disposal. Kennedy’s rule was to get it to Huddo as quick as possible; it did not matter how.

I would expect that Huddo still thinks that a “lace out pass” is a fancy handkerchief dropped by an opportunist young lady.

 

[Lord Mud of Glenferrie]

 

[houdinihuddo]

Congratulations on a great report Lord Mud. 1971 was certainly a dominant year for the Hawks with the final four being Hawthorn 19 wins, 3 losses, 153.7%, St.Kilda 16/6/140.0%, Richmond 16/6/122.6% and Collingwood 14/7/1 draw/126.7%. At the GF I was sitting in the front row of the Smoker's Stand and I can remember I was totally drained and exhausted after "playing" every minute.

I have a few thoughts on the game and season:
1. We had a dream start with Huddo's strong mark and magnificent 55 yard goal from close to the boundary line in the opening minutes of the game. The dream soon turned into a nightmare whenHuddo was knocked unconscious by Cowboy Neale and his loss of balance resulted in him spraying his kicks for the rest of the game. Lord Mud posted "One other thing, many people who never saw Hudson play may get the wrong idea about the team feeding him the ball. The “feeding” was a mixture of mongrel punts, dribbles and, in general, awful disposal. Kennedy’s rule was to get it toHuddo as quick as possible; it did not matter how." Spot on Lord Mud, the only player who ever kicked the ball lace out to Huddo was Crimmo so that is why I regard Huddo as by far the best full forward I have seen. His ability to read the play and judge the bounce of the ball was second to none. To celebrateHuddo's 150 goals I took Peter and Stephanie to the La Bouillabaisse Restaurant in Malvern Road, Gardner and enjoyed a very enjoyable and interesting night. I asked Huddo why he often ran at an angle away from where the ball was heading and yet the ball consistently bounced into his path so he was metres in the clear from his opponent.Huddo told me he focused on the ball whilst it was in flight and tried to anticipate how it would land and bounce. My favourite Huddo moment happened at the Western Oval against the Bulldogs. Huddo was so good he often had three opponents and on this occasion he ran towards the ball with a player at each side and one behind him. When he reached the ball rather than gather it and get tackled he paddled it along the ground as if it was a basketball. After he had paddled it for around 15 to 20 yards he had his 3 opponents in a trace and then he placed his hand to stop the ball but kept running and shadow paddled for another 10 yards. Big Al ran in behindHuddo and his opponents to pick up the ball and strolled into the open goal and did well not to fall over with his laughter. Houdinihuddo was the greatest reader and controller of the ball I have had the pleasure of watching.
2. I thought Don Scott was BOG. He was inspirational with his endeavour and the last man standing in a battle which saw him receive 10 free kicks and give away 6. 21 kicks, 1 handball, a game high 20hitouts, 4 marks and 1 goal was a great return for a ruckman. Ditterich's stats were 4 free kicks for and against, 15 kicks, 2 handballs, 8 hitouts and 2 marks. The popular choice for BOG by the press was Lawrence for his very good game on Huddo. However any player who beat Huddo had his status elevated and Lawrence was assisted by Huddo's impaired co-ordination and 8 stitches in his ear.
3. Kel Moore played a sensational game keeping the Grommet Weasel Davis to 1 goal after his match winning 6 goals in the Saints 16/12/106 to 12/6/78 win over Richmond in the PF. Kel was the best defensive full back I have seen. His ability to read the play and use his body were second to none, he had very safe hands and his disposal was first class with both feet.Kel had 18 kicks, 6 marks and 1 handball.
4. Norm "Arms & Legs" Bussell deserves an honourable mention for his very good defensive game on Breen who loomed as a real danger player in the absence of Peter "Super Boy" Knights. Breen kicked 3 goals, not 4 as was incorrectly reported in some papers and his first goal resulted from a tackle from Kel Moore. Norm regularly positioned himself between the ball and Breen and restricted him to 12 kicks, 4 handballs and only 2 marks.
5. 13 of the 20 players in the premiership team played 80% or more of the 24 games. Crimmins, Heath, Hudson, Martello & Scott [24], Day, Keddie & Matthews [23], Bussell, Hawken, Knights & Parkin [22] and Moore [21]. Matthews, Heath & Knights represented Victoria. For the first time in HFC's history, the firsts and reserves played in the finals and the club won the McCelland Aggregate Points Trophy for the firsts, reserves and under 19s.
6. How the game has changed with a total of only 78 handballs and an extravagant 97 frees. The GF stats were Hawks 243 kicks, 28 handballs, 56 marks, 45 frees and Saints 226 kicks, 50 handballs, 39 marks and 52 frees.

Slayer posted "I just want to find out if there was more then just Huddo going down that made this team slip or to prove to people the difference just this one player made.' Adelaide Hawk hit the nail on the head with his post "The bottom line is, you just can't replace a 150 goal FF, and devise an entire new forward structure overnight. Slayer posted "Also what happened to this team apart from Knights prior to the GF and Huddo in RD 1 72." Back in the 1970s all the players had occupations [except students] so any payments were little more than a top up. The total payments to senior and reserve players in 1971 was only $31,089.

Lord Mud posted "A couple of odd bits. Michael Tuck, playing at CHF kicked four goals with his first four touches in his first game.Now! My memory is that this was achieved playing against Geelong at Waverley. Sam Newman went on to Tuck to “stem the flow”, which he did. Every record that I can find states that this was achieved against Richmond. Can someone confirm who is right? The 1972HFC Annual report states Tucky played 5 games and kicked 3 goals, all against Richmond in Round 8 at Waverley. Tucky kicked 2 goals in 1973, 1 in each game againstCollingwood and 22 goals in 1974 with 1 against Geelong.

Lord Mud posted "Glenferrie was different.No matter how much rain, it remained "muddy" and had the reputation as the Gluepot.Well,that mud stuck to everything including the ball." I will share a fond memory I have of the Glenferrie Mud. It involved Gene 'Springboard" [he used to prop and then stand up to launch players from his shoulders] Chiron and Peter "Gumpy" [he had a good crop of pimples and when he was kicking for goal we would shout out "squeeze" in through Gumpy] McKenna. Chiron tackled McKenna, dumped him in the mud and after the ball moved on Springboard had a quick look to see if the umpire wasn't looking before he scooped up ahand full of mud and gave Gumpy a massive mud facial no doubt to fertilise his pimples. It took the trainers a couple of minutes to remove all the mud out of Gumpy's eyes. Beautiful work.

Lord Mud posted "When it was dry it was like concrete.That is what did Huddo." Sorry Lord Mud but I have to dispute your assessment of the cause of Huddo's injury. Huddo's knee buckled because Barry Bourke cannoned into him after he marked the ball and rode him to the ground. Bourke crashed Huddo on 2 prior occasions before the fatal incident. In 1972 Huddo was the fittest he had ever been and given the fact that his marking was improving every year, if it had not been for his injury I am sure he would have finished up being the all time undisputed greatest full forward at the end of his career.

 

[grizzlym]

Top notch, HH. I'll be sure to tell my mother you went out to dinner with Huddo and she'll be most jealous.

Rusty's OP for 1976 will be up sometime in the next few days.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Here is a list of Hawks players in 1971. Next to theie names will be 2 numbers e.g. 15-12, this indicates 15 games played and 12 goals kicked. 1971 premiership players in bold.

1 Ron Stubbs 6-1 From Carrum, ended his career in Tasmania
2 Bob Keddie 23-39 4 goals in the final quarter, 132 game player
3 Peter Chilton 3-0 utility player from Jeparit
4 Ken Beck 7-0 veteran ruckman of 157 games with the Hawks
5 Peter Crimmins 24-30 brilliant rover and spiritual leader of the Hawks
6 Michael Moncrieff 9-3 Career 224 games, 629 goals for the Hawks
7 Charlie Grummisch 12-2 long kicking HF from Kilcunda-Bass
8 Kevin Heath 24-20 140 games for the Hawks as a CHB/ruck rover
9 Michael Porter 16-14 tough HF who dealt out classic bump to Carl Ditterich
10 Ray Wilson 8-0 centreman who won Hawks B&F in 1st year 1966
11 Lindsay Tipping 1-0 from Camberwell-Baptists
12 Robert Day 23-10 Dual All Australian from South Australia
13 Leon Rice 14-4 133 game wingman drom Drouin
14 Alan Martello 24-24 played 223 games then transferred to Richmond
15 Kelvin Moore 21-3 legendary FB and 300 gamer for the Hawks
16 Norm Bussell 22-0 tough CHB from Wangaratta Rovers
17 John Lewis 0-0 recruited from Claremont (WAFL)
18 Les Hawken 22-0 burly tall back pocket from Traralgon
19 Ross Johnson 2-0 utility player from Peninsula
20 Ian Bremner 17-1 tough HB from Collingwood, played 158 for the Hawks
21 Michael Blood 0-0 from St.Kevin's Old Bous
22 Geoff Smith 7-3 speedy red headed wingman with good foot skills
23 Don Scott 24-3 future captain who played 302 games for the Hawks
24 Peter Knights 22-4 brilliant Hawks legend, missed GF due to injury
25 John Hendrie 0-0 half forward destined for future premiership honours
26 Peter Hudson 24-150 Greatest FF ever to play the game
27 David Parkin 22-0 premiership captain and 211 games for the Hawks
28 Kelvin Matthews 0-0 rover and brother of Leigh
30 Des Meagher 19-3 tall left footer who played 198 games on the wing
31 Michael Francis 0-0 recruited from Bonbeach
32 Leigh Matthews 23-43 goalkicking rover, arguably the best of all time
33 Geoff Angus 17-7 tough centreman from Carey Grammar
34 Bruce Stevenson 19-11 Ruckman who starred in the 1971 2nd Semi Final
35 Brian Douge 7-2 reliable defender from Balwyn
36 Gene Chiron 8-0 half back, local from Hawthorn
40 Brian Shinners 10-1 reserve in the 2ns Semi final, missed selection in GF.
45 Michael Tuck 0-0 skinny kid expected to make it one day