Hawthorn’s 2019 Trade/FA - Targets/Incoming players discussion only

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Am I the only one not that keen on Greenwood? Seems like a massive grub
I reckon Greenwood has massive upside as part of a stoppage setup & I don't feel he's being coached very well.

As a player, I'd much prefer we chase Ellis-Yolman, but Greenwood has that basketball background & a big body. Those basketball guys (Pendlebury, Roughy etc.) understand making space in congestion; how to block & how to get out of the way to make space open up behind them.

As a footballer, he does ok, but I think he has huge upside in the way he might work in with JO'M, Tom (& Cogs;)), Worpel at al., making them better through his body work.

From a BigFooty perspective, he's gonna look like Dan Howe if he comes to HFC*. People are going to look at his 16x disposals & say he's not doing enough, but they'll miss the protection he gives our top liners & that we have the most effective midfield in the league.




*I'm not suggesting that Howe is in any form to be playing 1sts, but then his greatest contribution of recent times was his protection of Mitchell, not his possession count.
 
If I recall, the Crows did not want to delist Hendo but were forced to because he refused to re-sign. That or they planned to rookie list him. Either way, our benefit

That's not how delisted free agency works. If you've been given a contract formally by the club, the option of being picked up as a DFA by another club is not open to you. In that case you must go through the draft.

Most clubs wouldn't force a player down that route though.
 

Rioli magic

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Leather Poisoning thoughts?


Actual footage of Geelong dropping out of the race below, looks like it’s down to Hawthorn and GWS.

DDCB0D10-9AEA-49FA-A593-7BE7A8BFDF84.gif
 
Cats were never in the race?

In other news, I'm out of the race to marry Megan Fox.


Just tell Megan Fox that you spend most of your time on an internet footy site.

I'm sure she'll come round.
 
If I recall, the Crows did not want to delist Hendo but were forced to because he refused to re-sign. That or they planned to rookie list him. Either way, our benefit
A player doesn't qualify for delisted free agent status if they were presented a contract by their original club. If a player could do that then there'd be no players who are out of contract leaving by trade or as RFAs. They'd just refuse all contracts from their club and then walk to their destination as DFAs.
 
Jan 17, 2008
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A player doesn't qualify for delisted free agent status if they were presented a contract by their original club. If a player could do that then there'd be no players who are out of contract leaving by trade or as RFAs. They'd just refuse all contracts from their club and then walk to their destination as DFAs.
If you have to delist three players and one player doesn’t want to sign for you, you make it easier on yourself by delisting him and two others rather than keeping him and still not getting him to sign.
 
If you have to delist three players and one player doesn’t want to sign for you, you make it easier on yourself by delisting him and two others rather than keeping him and still not getting him to sign.
If the club doesn't want to keep the player, or are happy to lose him if circumstances demand it then sure. I was more addressing the suggestion that Adelaide didn't actually want to lose him. The fact he was a DFA indicates that Adelaide either didn't want him or he was considered expendable and they were otherwise indifferent to him being on their list. If they actively wanted to keep him at their club then there's not a scenario where they leave the door open to him being able to be poached with no way to defend it on their part.
 

Rioli magic

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My understanding...
Henderson was out of contract and wanted to come back to Victoria, and the Crows were hoping to trade him but didn’t secure a deal in the trade period. (He didn’t qualify for free agency - Hawthorn had already told him we will select him as a DFA). After the trade period he was delisted for the first list lodgment with the AFL, and therefore became a delisted free agent, and we kept our promise and took him as a DFA.
 
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If the club doesn't want to keep the player, or are happy to lose him if circumstances demand it then sure. I was more addressing the suggestion that Adelaide didn't actually want to lose him. The fact he was a DFA indicates that Adelaide either didn't want him or he was considered expendable and they were otherwise indifferent to him being on their list. If they actively wanted to keep him at their club then there's not a scenario where they leave the door open to him being able to be poached with no way to defend it on their part.
They definitely wanted to retain him. But as I said, if Henderson was going to walk then they make it easier to just delist him.
 
A player doesn't qualify for delisted free agent status if they were presented a contract by their original club. If a player could do that then there'd be no players who are out of contract leaving by trade or as RFAs. They'd just refuse all contracts from their club and then walk to their destination as DFAs.
yeah but they don't have to sign a deal for minimum chips either, if all the club had to do to block free agency was offer them the minimum amount that wouldn't work very well.

A contract is a two way street if you can't agree on a price both sides should have the option to walk away, not saying that's how it works but there is a fine line the AFL and clubs and players all have to walk to keep each other onside enough, all it takes is one bad idea court case to bring down their current system
 
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Leather Poisoning thoughts?


Actual footage of Geelong dropping out of the race below, looks like it’s down to Hawthorn and GWS.

View attachment 692041
ITS NOT *IN A RACE!

You can't pull out of a race if it wasn't a race.

It's like saying Bill Shorten and Scomo were in a race for the prime minister position. IT WAS NOT A RACE - IT WAS A CONTEST.
 
yeah but they don't have to sign a deal for minimum chips either, if all the club had to do to block free agency was offer them the minimum amount that wouldn't work very well.

A contract is a two way street if you can't agree on a price both sides should have the option to walk away, not saying that's how it works but there is a fine line the AFL and clubs and players all have to walk to keep each other onside enough, all it takes is one bad idea court case to bring down their current system
To be clear, offering a contract would only block automatic delisted free agency status if the player in question refuses all deals and is the one driving the split. Restricted and unrestricted free agent would always retain their free agency status.

But you are right about poor contracts - they don't have to sign it. If a club does throw a minimum (AFL) wage contract at a player and they don't want it then they still have multiple options open to them. They could request a trade to a club that is willing to meet their contract desires - the original club can then attempt to get something more than nothing in exchange. They could walk into the pre-season draft and name a contract price, where the first club willing to pay that price can use their pick on them - and that club unlikely as it may be could even end up being the original club (a late change of heart on meeting contract price).

This is why I'm skeptical about Adelaide having wanted to keep Hendo. If they really wanted to keep him then they would have offered a contract to him. And maybe they did offer a poor one, or maybe it was decent one but he simply didn't want to stay in SA. Either way at that point they could have offered to trade him to Hawthorn, even if just for a late pick. Otherwise if at an impasse Hendo could have walked into the pre-season draft which would have been the same result as delisting him for Adelaide but it's just a tougher stance because there's always the possibility some other club drafts him at his nominated price and he doesn't necessarily end up exactly where he wants to be.

At best it appears Adelaide would have liked to have retained him but were open to amicably letting him walk to wherever he wanted. With it being petty to force an ageing depth player who wants to move home into a draft situation where they could end up being drafted to the other side of the country from where they want to be. Now I'm sure Hendo is a lovely bloke but if Adelaide rated him anywhere within their best 22 (and just 9 games in 2016 suggested they did not) then they would have looked to have got something for him in trade with us rather than just let him go for nothing. That's why I think they at best felt indifferent about him. Happy to keep him if he wanted to stay (as he'd be good depth and is a good role model) but also not fussed about trying to get anything for him in trade as ultimately he was in and out of their side as a depth player and approaching what appeared to be his use by date. They would never have predicted in their wildest dreams that he'd hit the heights he has since he joined Hawthorn.
 
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To be clear, offering a contract would only block automatic delisted free agency status if the player in question refuses all deals and is the one driving the split. Restricted and unrestricted free agent would always retain their free agency status.

But you are right about poor contracts - they don't have to sign it. If a club does throw a minimum (AFL) wage contract at a player and they don't want it then they still have multiple options open to them. They could request a trade to a club that is willing to meet their contract desires - the original club can then attempt to get something more than nothing in exchange. They could walk into the pre-season draft and name a contract price, where the first club willing to pay that price can use their pick on them - and that club unlikely as it may be could even end up being the original club (a late change of heart on meeting contract price).

This is why I'm skeptical about Adelaide having wanted to keep Hendo. If they really wanted to keep him then they would have offered a contract to him. And maybe they did offer a poor one, or maybe it was decent one but he simply didn't want to stay in SA. Either way at that point they could have offered to trade him to Hawthorn, even if just for a late pick. Otherwise if at an impasse Hendo could have walked into the pre-season draft which would have been the same result as delisting him for Adelaide but it's just a tougher stance because there's always the possibility some other club drafts him at his nominated price and he doesn't necessarily end up exactly where he wants to be.

At best it appears Adelaide would have liked to have retained him but were open to amicably letting him walk to wherever he wanted. With it being petty to force an ageing depth player who wants to move home into a draft situation where they could end up being drafted to the other side of the country from where they want to be. Now I'm sure Hendo is a lovely bloke but if Adelaide rated him anywhere within their best 22 (and just 9 games in 2016 suggested they did not) then they would have looked to have got something for him in trade with us rather than just let him go for nothing. That's why I think they at best felt indifferent about him. Happy to keep him if he wanted to stay (as he'd be good depth and is a good role model) but also not fussed about trying to get anything for him in trade as ultimately he was in and out of their side as a depth player and approaching what appeared to be his use by date. They would never have predicted in their wildest dreams that he'd hit the heights he has since he joined Hawthorn.
They did offer him terms. He didn’t want to accept it. They figured it was easier to delist him and move on once a trade couldn’t be determined rather than invest time in a player who didn’t want to be there. Just like we did for billy hartung. There isn’t a mystery going on and it wasn’t amicable.
 
Henderson came from a Basketball background just like Greenwood and was also drafted at the age of 22 and he’s playing the best footy of his career right now.

Considering the clubs track record of turning ex Adelaide players into elite players lets make it 3 from 3. ;)
 
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Henderson came from a Basketball background just like Greenwood and was also drafted at the age of 22 and he’s playing the best footy of his career right now.

Considering the clubs track record of turning ex Adelaide players into elite players lets make it 3 from 3. ;)

It’s the Darren Jarman karma effect 🤙🏽
 
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