No Oppo Supporters Hawthorn’s 2019 Trade/FA - Targets/Incoming players discussion only - Next Part

[Off The Couch]

Caused a lot of excitement here for a few days though.

Angst more like it

 

[HeHateMe]

Could just threaten to retire at the end of his contract. Then he becomes a DFA when he comes out of retirement the next day......

You cant become a DFA if you delist yourself.

 

[Bumps"N"Grins]

Or, we keep asking the questions, forcing Gils hand a little more each time. Eventually something will give. Like it did with the Syds.

Or, Id rather have our money on ther'll be an arrangement for a more favouble draw, or a softening of a certain position on Tassie, a something to sweeten us and stop making waves.

Theres more than one way to skin the CATS at HQ.

Even though we might appear to lose the battle for player X, we will win the war on another front. Media piffle aside, we'll pick up another player. Plenty of fish in the pcean for Clarko to catch.

I see what you did there.

 

[dermott]

Brad Sewell wasn't a star of the competition but he was exactly what we needed in the guts for us to win premierships.

He won a Crimmins Medal which is no mean feat.

 

[StillAtLarge]

He won a Crimmins Medal which is no mean feat.

And would've been norm if we'd snuck over the line in 2012

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Dayne Beams returned to his original club after leaving. Gary Ablett junior too. Justin Murphy many years ago. Croady. I'm sure there are others also...

Hope Hawthorn stop playing the nice guy. Apparently, being 'nice' isn't a commodity players look at when choosing a club to play for.

Port played hardball with that blonde midfielder who was forced to play for Carlton after preferring the Pies. Yet Port still attracted many players to join them. Cam McCarthy was forced to sit out a whole season when GWS didn't want to send him to WA. Essendon are c**** yet they still attract players.

I wish Hawthorn will start playing hardball. Be ruthless. When will we ever be rewarded for our 'lovely kind' gestures?

In any business, you can be ruthless and get results, or be nice and hope for the best. FFS.

Exactly why I was ropable when we traded Hill for massive unders, but I've been shot down by a few for saying you want a fantastic reputation with players etc, massive lot of good that did.

 

[Mercy Seat]

Dayne Beams returned to his original club after leaving. Gary Ablett junior too. Justin Murphy many years ago. Croady. I'm sure there are others also...

Hope Hawthorn stop playing the nice guy. Apparently, being 'nice' isn't a commodity players look at when choosing a club to play for.

Port played hardball with that blonde midfielder who was forced to play for Carlton after preferring the Pies. Yet Port still attracted many players to join them. Cam McCarthy was forced to sit out a whole season when GWS didn't want to send him to WA. Essendon are c**** yet they still attract players.

I wish Hawthorn will start playing hardball. Be ruthless. When will we ever be rewarded for our 'lovely kind' gestures?

In any business, you can be ruthless and get results, or be nice and hope for the best. FFS.

This is absurd.

As a collective body of work, Hawks have won trading over the past 10 years or so in terms of our list building and we’ve won premierships off the base of it. Essendon haven’t won a final in almost 20 years and you want to copy their campaigner model?! Jesus.

I don’t know why it needs to be said each and every year, but by being good to work with has been FAR more beneficial to us in the long run than being posturing assholes. We get the players we really want in trades, and more often we’re able to get players like Impey, Scully even Mitchell at absolute steals which outweighs when clubs want to bend us over. JOM only happened because we’d built enough good will with Carlton to split up some picks which got the deal done. Without that, it wouldn’t have happened, and there was basically no benefit to them.

If you look at every transaction as something we have to “win”, like with Hill, you’ll drive yourself mad. It’s like the stock market. If you look at it as a collective arc over time, we out perform the competition in this field, again and again.

 

[lethalselbow]

Dayne Beams returned to his original club after leaving. Gary Ablett junior too. Justin Murphy many years ago. Croady. I'm sure there are others also...

Hope Hawthorn stop playing the nice guy. Apparently, being 'nice' isn't a commodity players look at when choosing a club to play for.

Port played hardball with that blonde midfielder who was forced to play for Carlton after preferring the Pies. Yet Port still attracted many players to join them. Cam McCarthy was forced to sit out a whole season when GWS didn't want to send him to WA. Essendon are c**** yet they still attract players.

I wish Hawthorn will start playing hardball. Be ruthless. When will we ever be rewarded for our 'lovely kind' gestures?

In any business, you can be ruthless and get results, or be nice and hope for the best. FFS.

I think there is a balance in there. Maybe a little bit tougher.

Hawthorn haven't done a hell of lot wrong in the trading department. Hard to criticise premierships.

 

[dcutter]

Did we even enquire about Hill? If we didn't, then good luck to him I guess.... if we did, then I guess it stinks a little given how easy we made his move back to WA. Would have been nice for him to reciprocate, but meh.

Freo want pick 5, no way I want to give that kind of collateral for Hill nor the money.

Quietly excited about going to the draft. If Wrighty can pluck Worpel, Sicily and Hardwick in deep in the 3rd rounds imagine what he'll do with a first round draft pick.

Adds something extra when we draft our own also. Exciting times.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Freo want pick 5, no way I want to give that kind of collateral for Hill nor the money.

Quietly excited about going to the draft. If Wrighty can pluck Worpel, Sicily and Hardwick in deep in the 3rd rounds imagine what he'll do with a first round draft pick.

Adds something extra when we draft our own also. Exciting times.

Pick a chopper Lovell ?

 

[Brishawk]

Freo want pick 5, no way I want to give that kind of collateral for Hill nor the money.

Quietly excited about going to the draft. If Wrighty can pluck Worpel, Sicily and Hardwick in deep in the 3rd rounds imagine what he'll do with a first round draft pick.

Adds something extra when we draft our own also. Exciting times.

Hate to break it to you but I can’t see us taking our first pick to the draft.

 

[Billyc]

Freo want pick 5, no way I want to give that kind of collateral for Hill nor the money.

Quietly excited about going to the draft. If Wrighty can pluck Worpel, Sicily and Hardwick in deep in the 3rd rounds imagine what he'll do with a first round draft pick.

Adds something extra when we draft our own also. Exciting times.

people overrate draft picks. A quick look at the last 10 picked at 5 and I’d say only three id take before Hill (Cunnington, De Goey, Rozee). And the latter one is probably premature

There is always risk there could be a Buddy floating around at 5 like 15 years ago but the odds would be about 70% Hill will be better than the guy taken pick 5. That’s a fair price.

 

[Steven Tyler]

Hate to break it to you but I can’t see us taking our first pick to the draft.

We need to either split it for 2 second rounders or trade it out before the draft

Someone with multiple firsts will bid on Finn, no doubt about it

My hope is we trade pick 10 along with say Smith, to Melbourne for their first

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Hate to break it to you but I can’t see us taking our first pick to the draft.

Not our current one at least.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Exactly why I was ropable when we traded Hill for massive unders, but I've been shot down by a few for saying you want a fantastic reputation with players etc, massive lot of good that did.

We didn’t trade him for massive unders.

Hill owes us nothing for trading him home, btw.

We weren’t willing to pay the price to bring him back - both in salary and draft picks.

 

[jenniferHAWKinS]

We need to either split it for 2 second rounders or trade it out before the draft

Someone with multiple firsts will bid on Finn, no doubt about it

My hope is we trade pick 10 along with say Smith, to Melbourne for their first

So we trade out Smithy for virtually nothing. The difference between player 3 (Golf Coast will get 1 & 2) and 11/12 is very little in quality. Anderson, Rowell and Green (GWS) are the 3 standouts. We won’t get access to those 3 by trading up so why bother?

 

[Steven Tyler]

So we trade out Smithy for virtually nothing. The difference between player 3 (Golf Coast will get 1 & 2) and 11/12 is very little in quality. Anderson, Rowell and Green (GWS) are the 3 standouts. We won’t get access to those 3 by trading up so why bother?

Atm Melbourne have pick 2

If things change so be it

Gold Coast also may have to trade out their priority pick for established talent

Lots of scenarios to play out yet

 

[Davo23]

This is absurd.

As a collective body of work, Hawks have won trading over the past 10 years or so in terms of our list building and we’ve won premierships off the base of it. Essendon haven’t won a final in almost 20 years and you want to copy their campaigner model?! Jesus.

I don’t know why it needs to be said each and every year, but by being good to work with has been FAR more beneficial to us in the long run than being posturing assholes. We get the players we really want in trades, and more often we’re able to get players like Impey, Scully even Mitchell at absolute steals which outweighs when clubs want to bend us over. JOM only happened because we’d built enough good will with Carlton to split up some picks which got the deal done. Without that, it wouldn’t have happened, and there was basically no benefit to them.

If you look at every transaction as something we have to “win”, like with Hill, you’ll drive yourself mad. It’s like the stock market. If you look at it as a collective arc over time, we out perform the competition in this field, again and again.

Great post.

And you cannot win over everybody, Coniglio was described here as a great family man, wanting to play for a great club, loyal to his friends, etc, etc, etc.
Guess what, he went for the money.

The thing Hawthorn always retains is integrity.

.

 

[jenniferHAWKinS]

Atm Melbourne have pick 2

If things change so be it

Gold Coast also may have to trade out their priority pick for established talent

Lots of scenarios to play out yet

Good deal if the Dees keep 2 but i’m certain they won’t. Regardless if GC trade it out (unless it is to us) nothing changes.

 

[tige19]

Exactly why I was ropable when we traded Hill for massive unders, but I've been shot down by a few for saying you want a fantastic reputation with players etc, massive lot of good that did.

Business is business and to often we’re the nice guys.

 

[Bugs1977]

Freo want pick 5, no way I want to give that kind of collateral for Hill nor the money.

Quietly excited about going to the draft. If Wrighty can pluck Worpel, Sicily and Hardwick in deep in the 3rd rounds imagine what he'll do with a first round draft pick.

Adds something extra when we draft our own also. Exciting times.

I’ve said this a couple of times now the last couple of months but I think Freo has told Hill that they’ll trade him to a VIC club but not Hawthorn. They know that they got him for huge unders and that we’d expect the same to get him back. Avoiding us is the best way for them to get a maximum return.

 

[jenniferHAWKinS]

The thing Hawthorn always retains is integrity.

.

And it’s salary cap and player worth payment structure. You don’t mind paying a little extra to pry someone away but approx 950k a year for Hilly is ridiculous. Eats away at the club in many ways!

 

[Bugs1977]

people overrate draft picks. A quick look at the last 10 picked at 5 and I’d say only three id take before Hill (Cunnington, De Goey, Rozee). And the latter one is probably premature

There is always risk there could be a Buddy floating around at 5 like 15 years ago but the odds would be about 70% Hill will be better than the guy taken pick 5. That’s a fair price.

You do realise that players that get drafted by certain clubs careers a doomed to fail from the start. I’ll go out on a limb here and say that if players were drafted to good clubs with solid structures in place on/off the field most probably could’ve been anything. I’m not saying it’s a given but the chances are high. Just imagine if Harley Bennell was drafted by us with good veterans around him to keep him line.

 

[Bugs1977]

Hate to break it to you but I can’t see us taking our first pick to the draft.

Wouldn’t the smart thing be to use a 1st this draft so we don’t next year?

 

[Billyc]

You do realise that players that get drafted by certain clubs careers a doomed to fail from the start. I’ll go out on a limb here and say that if players were drafted to good clubs with solid structures in place on/off the field most probably could’ve been anything. I’m not saying it’s a given but the chances are high. Just imagine if Harley Bennell was drafted by us with good veterans around him to keep him line.

Same goes for established or experienced players a club might trade in though (Gibson Hale Impey, Tom Mitchell etc) so the point is irrelevant. Hardly rocket science that players - whether draftees or experienced - are likely to do better at a better club.

Pick 5 is fair value for Hill