No Oppo Supporters Hawthorn’s 2019 Trade/FA - Targets/Incoming players discussion only - Next Part

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Ill take Petracca. His potential is enormous and will be dynamic in the Hawthorn system. The bonus is it would send the media into more anti Hawthorn.

Petracca reminds me of Ryan Burton.

Seems to have all of the tools.... but can't get to the next level.

I do agree that shedding a few kgs might help.
 

Billyc

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That's the thing though - you'd trade him in hoping to realise the potential that he's not currently delivering on - not to have him continue at current levels.

He's overrated because his potential is high, but his output isn't at that level (the gap being the overrated part).
The problem is that to get him out of Melbourne, you'd be paying the price for his potential, not his output. If we want to go speculative, might as well draft an 18 year old with the early pick it would take to prize Petracca out of Melbourne. Or grab Bennell for free (Bennell has at least shown himself capable of being a superstar AFL player).

Someone mentioned Wingard earlier. That's a poor comparison. Wingard is a proven 2xAll Australian jet, not just someone who was an awesome 18 year old who has shown a few spurts as a senior footballer.

I am all for trading draft picks out for established guns. I don't rate draft picks. But Petracca is not an established gun. He's a bloke with potential who has disappointed in his AFL career to date. Unless he's on offer for something that reflects his actual performance to date (which I really doubt), i'd much rather we look elsewhere.
 

4THAWN

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Petracca has pretty much stagnated, or potentially even gotten slightly worse, since his 2nd season.

#2 pick in 2014 draft, he'll be 24 next season, and has shown very little-no improvement between years 3-5 of his career.
To many, that would sound like a no-go zone.

But let me remind you, that's not very dis-similar to the career of Jarman Impey, who we all know after 1.5 years in the hawthorn system became a great player, and important contributor to the team.

Jarman played 2 alright seasons down back, but was then shifted forward in 2016. A decent first season in a new position earned him the spot for the following year, however he failed to show signs of improvement and natural progression, as evidenced by his stats. After barely showing much improvement in his first 4 seasons at port, Jarman came to hawthorn where he quickly springboarded into one of the comp's premier small defenders.

I'm not saying this means we need to get Petracca, but remember this before you claim he is a bust who would not be valuable for us.
 
But not sure about 50/50 being in a "strong position".
Wouldn't it stand to reason that if I knew absolutely nothing about which way a decision would unfold, it would be 50/50 in my mind?

All that means is that the journo has literally no idea which is the more likely outcome, not that Coniglio doesn't know.

The amount of times I've read, presumably from posters entirely without irony, that "apparently it's 50/50", just makes me laugh. Not a big funny haha laugh, but a snide, snort of derision kind of laugh...
 
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The problem is that to get him out of Melbourne, you'd be paying the price for his potential, not his output. If we want to go speculative, might as well draft an 18 year old with the early pick it would take to prize Petracca out of Melbourne. Or grab Bennell for free (Bennell has at least shown himself capable of being a superstar AFL player).

Someone mentioned Wingard earlier. That's a poor comparison. Wingard is a proven 2xAll Australian jet, not just someone who was an awesome 18 year old who has shown a few spurts as a senior footballer.

I am all for trading draft picks out for established guns. I don't rate draft picks. But Petracca is not an established gun. He's a bloke with potential who has disappointed in his AFL career to date. Unless he's on offer for something that reflects his actual performance to date (which I really doubt), i'd much rather we look elsewhere.

I mentioned Wingard in that I believe Clarko could get the best out of Petracca, and turn him in to a weapon like Wingard.
 

SuperSic

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Petracca has pretty much stagnated, or potentially even gotten slightly worse, since his 2nd season.

#2 pick in 2014 draft, he'll be 24 next season, and has shown very little-no improvement between years 3-5 of his career.
To many, that would sound like a no-go zone.

But let me remind you, that's not very dis-similar to the career of Jarman Impey, who we all know after 1.5 years in the hawthorn system became a great player, and important contributor to the team.

Jarman played 2 alright seasons down back, but was then shifted forward in 2016. A decent first season in a new position earned him the spot for the following year, however he failed to show signs of improvement and natural progression, as evidenced by his stats. After barely showing much improvement in his first 4 seasons at port, Jarman came to hawthorn where he quickly springboarded into one of the comp's premier small defenders.

I'm not saying this means we need to get Petracca, but remember this before you claim he is a bust who would not be valuable for us.

Yeah but Impey cost us two fourth round picks... very different to a top 10 pick that the Dees would demand.
 
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Nobody said he was a bust. But we wouldn't be giving up a pick in the 30s for him like Impey. It would be our first pick
yeah I feel the difference between the Impey situation and a Petracca one would be the asking price. Port were happy to move Jars on so he could be closer to family and understood its importance to him. Petracca wanting out would be so he could get more midfield minutes, not something for the players welfare. Melbourne would be asking for at least a first you would think for a guy that whilst everyone outside Melbourne think is over rated, at times looks like Melbourne's best player (more shows how bad they have been than anything else)
 

A Diakos

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I mentioned Wingard in that I believe Clarko could get the best out of Petracca, and turn him in to a weapon like Wingard.

Wingard was a proven A grader 2 time all Aust.....Petracca has done nothing in 5 years ...no comparison ....Xavier Ellis Richard Hamstring and Jono orourke where pick 2's in the draft also
 

Burtman

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Got word that Petracca is having a sit down with Melbourne to discuss his future, not happy with the midfield time he’s getting, doesn’t want to be up forward as much as he is. Don’t know Wether this means he wants to move clubs or just be guaranteed a lot more midfield time
 
yeah I feel the difference between the Impey situation and a Petracca one would be the asking price. Port were happy to move Jars on so he could be closer to family and understood its importance to him. Petracca wanting out would be so he could get more midfield minutes, not something for the players welfare. Melbourne would be asking for at least a first you would think for a guy that whilst everyone outside Melbourne think is over rated, at times looks like Melbourne's best player (more shows how bad they have been than anything else)
Depends a bit how Melbourne see him.

Goodwin has what, 2 years left to save his career? On 2019 standard, he'll never coach again.

So, he can continue to do the same thing & hope that Petracca magically gets good; or, he could see him as an expensive financial liability & try to turn his cost into something a little more productive.

They desperately need outside run. If I was Goodwin & was paying a guy $450k & needed to change **** up a bit to get the team moving then I'd be wanting Isaac Smith (for the next 3yrs) a lot more than just continuing with Petracca's current output, which is more likely to decline than it will magically get better.


*not necessarily saying I'd want this to happen, just that Melbourne may not be as stubborn to deal with as you'd think.

And if they are then they can EAD & let him keep on underperforming.
 

CHUBBSS

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I don't rate petracca but that is just me, he was an over valued draft pick due to his size and at afl level is just another player.

in saying that we would improve any player from melbourne without a doubt
 

Furn2

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With Petracca, how often does a high pick that's been underwhelming come good a nd reach there potential at another club?

Pretty much never happens.

Wouldn't want to give up much pick or trade wise.
 
Freo changing their tune on Langdon and Hill.

Pretty much came out and have now said that if they don't want to stay then they will be traded. One step closer to Hill I suppose, if he wants to come and have reasonable salary expectations
 
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I don't rate petracca but that is just me, he was an over valued draft pick due to his size and at afl level is just another player.

in saying that we would improve any player from melbourne without a doubt
Melbourne’s record on player development is pretty bad... Either that or they are / have been bad at picking the good ones... But if you have a look at their first rounders going back 10 years or so, they have not been good...

I dont mind Petracca, but you’re right, probably overrated.
 
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Freo changing their tune on Langdon and Hill.

Pretty much came out and have now said that if they don't want to stay then they will be traded. One step closer to Hill I suppose, if he wants to come and have reasonable salary expectations

I can't see it, to me on the surface it looks like a blatant money grab. Plus he has been Failmantelised and may never be the same.
 

Mrzohs

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Melbourne’s record on player development is pretty bad... Either that or they are / have been bad at picking the good ones... But if you have a look at their first rounders going back 10 years or so, they have not been good...

I dont mind Petracca, but you’re right, probably overrated.

Agree is very similar to jack watts maybe it was the culture they were brought into, or the fact they were both monsters at u18 level.

He lacks heart you have to want it to succeed! Have some sort of mongrel you can't just rely on ability.

Ps, He reminds me of a current Australian tennis player.
 
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Kuuz

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Melbourne’s record on player development is pretty bad... Either that or they are / have been bad at picking the good ones... But if you have a look at their first rounders going back 10 years or so, they have not been good...

I dont mind Petracca, but you’re right, probably overrated.

Exactly. Are we really surprised Petracca hasn't developed as well as predicted at Melbourne.

They are the kings of mismanaging and underdeveloping top tier talent.
 
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Honestly after that WC mauling, if you take that team and go
Out: Howe, Puopolo
In: Mitchell, Impey

That is already a massive improvement without any players coming in from outside of the club. That is also without taking into account names like M.Lewis, Jiath, Moore, Ross, Walker, etc

Getting in Cogs (upgrade on Shiels), Patton (forward depth), and anyone else is just cream on top of what is already a quality side.
Sure of there are the mooted changes of (possibly) Breust/Gunston/Burgoyne out of that line-up then more spots will be available.

What i am saying is there doesn't need to be that much change beyond farewelling the old champs (e.g. Roughy) and clearing out the list of those surplus to needs/injured (e.g. Shoey, Miles).
Ummmmm no

We are a middle of the road side
It’s why we finished with 11 wins and 11 loses

Our coach on numerous times has said as much, and also mentioning the need for quality players in the future

Don’t get sucked into the fact we finished strongly, because we were quite poor early

We need to add quality all over the park, to not just compete, but to defeat the top sides to win the flag
 
With Petracca, how often does a high pick that's been underwhelming come good a nd reach there potential at another club?

Pretty much never happens.

Wouldn't want to give up much pick or trade wise.
I wonder whether that is because of the player, or other clubs.

When a **** club takes a player with a high pick & that player doesn't work out, the **** club usually still values the player highly at Trade Time - seemingly higher than they should.

I wonder if your observation has something to do with other clubs nor wanting to speculate on the player due to their current club being difficult to deal with?

Scrimshaw would be an example of a high pick underperforming, then turning it around (immediately) at a new Club.
 

TheExtractorFactor

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Hearing from reliable sources Cogs is definitely staying and will be announced Monday or Tuesday next week. AFL has stepped in ensuring he stays put

Can't be true all and sundry on here have said the deal was done practically before he was drafted.
 
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