Hawthorn 2017 season preview

[Sando22]

Hawks will still be bloody hard to beat next year for most

 

[Capt Hindsight]

A solid top 8 side in 2017. Not a threat to GWS or Bulldogs though.

 

[Ricky Vaughn]

Who?

Bulldogs have lots of depth. Sydney, Adelaide and West Coast all had some genuine class missing matches through poor form or simply not being able to break into the side. North Melbourne actually had some pretty good players in and out of the side last year. Losing Harvey, Petrie and Dal probably removes some of that but they've still got a bit of depth.

Geelong lack depth for much the same reasons as Hawthorn (very few early picks recently).

Then the sides who've had higher draft picks or traded in heavily like Brisbane, Essendon, Fremantle, Collingwood, Port Adelaide, Melbourne, St. Kilda and Richmond would all rank above Hawthorn for depth spots 28+ on their list.

I'm staggered how much this offends some Hawthorn posters. The price to pay for being a successful side for a long period of time is eroding depth at the back end of your list. This season that's at it's most evident. It's not even likely to have any affect on your season in 2017, yet you can't accept something so clear to everyone else.

 

[Leeda]

Then the sides who've had higher draft picks or traded in heavily like Brisbane, Essendon, Fremantle, Collingwood, Port Adelaide, Melbourne, St. Kilda and Richmond would all rank above Hawthorn for depth spots 28+ on their list.

I'm staggered how much this offends some Hawthorn posters. The price to pay for being a successful side for a long period of time is eroding depth at the back end of your list. This season that's at it's most evident. It's not even likely to have any affect on your season in 2017, yet you can't accept something so clear to everyone else.

er what? bottom feeding? take that in a purely footy sense... everyone is entitled to reap the benefits of a early draft pick or so.

we at Hawthorn can't take it as misread that we are 'going down brother'.
we just rattle cages, point the players fingers as to where we like them to go and then add to it a superlative coaching system and
hope that the lads cooperate. If they don't then it is anyone's loss.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Then the sides who've had higher draft picks or traded in heavily like Brisbane, Essendon, Fremantle, Collingwood, Port Adelaide, Melbourne, St. Kilda and Richmond would all rank above Hawthorn for depth spots 28+ on their list.

I'm staggered how much this offends some Hawthorn posters. The price to pay for being a successful side for a long period of time is eroding depth at the back end of your list. This season that's at it's most evident. It's not even likely to have any affect on your season in 2017, yet you can't accept something so clear to everyone else.

So in other words it seems that your argument is "better picks = better depth", even if those better picks haven't played any more senior games.

What Hawthorn posters, myself included, are arguing is that that's not necessarily the case.

All unproven players are at the same level. They're not necessarily worse or poorer based on where they were taken in the draft, and by extension it's hardly fair to label one sides youngsters amongst the worst in the league even in the face of them being given senior games in a top 8 side.

 

[dipper86]

Hawthorn has now added structure to its its forward line for next year, even with limited ball last year Hawthorn was still able to kick winning scores from general play.
The unknown next year is if we can get enough ball. If we can that forward line is almighty potent.

 

[peppy la pew]

You would think people on here would learn about making predictions with such clarity, Hawks have lost 2 absolute legends from their midfield and replaced them with TMitch, who is no slouch by the way and is a ball magnet, and JOM who if the gamble pays off could explode onto the scene.

Roughy to step in and they will be hard to beat again

On the downside you have Hodge & co another year older and more likely to pick up niggles, JOM might break down

Who knows, it's fine to discuss what fate awaits them in 2017, but to say with such certainty one way or the other is daft,

 

[cryptor]

Honestly, that is delusional.

Hawthorn lacked depth in the midfield and were smashed at the clearances. They actually over-achieved due to some very close wins.

Did you know that other than being our top goal scorer in 2015, Roughy also claimed the title at Hawthorn for contributing to winning the most centre clearances per centre ball-up attended? And by a significant margin.

So not only did his absence in 2016 cost us in the forward line but it also hurt us massively in the midfield where his pinch hitting was one of the most influential at Hawthorn and potentially in the entire league.

 

[Ricky Vaughn]

All unproven players are at the same level. They're not necessarily worse or poorer based on where they were taken in the draft, and by extension it's hardly fair to label one sides youngsters amongst the worst in the league even in the face of them being given senior games in a top 8 side.

Completely disagree with the bolded statement.

I'm not actually saying your young players are among the worst in the league. I'm not in a position to make that statement.
What I am saying, is your depth for season 2017 is among the worst in the league. In some cases they aren't bad players, they just aren't in a position to have an impact in 2017.

 

[Bulldog Joe]

Hang on, I haven't mentioned anything about rookie list picks from 2015 or anything similar.

You said that anyone outside of our best 28 would be considered amongst the worst in the league.

So, let's say we revisit the team I put up earlier.

Players 22-28 may be as follows.
Langford Seems to have lost whatever he had in 2014
Hartung Just struggles to prove his worth despite plenty of chances
Howe Does appear to regularly be put up, but it is time for him to actually show it.
Lovell I know he has only just completed 1 year, but plenty to prove.

So, you're saying that these depth players outside of the 28 in Schoenmakers, O'Brien, O'Rourke, Pittonet and Stewart would be amongst the worst players in that bracket in the league?

Not buying it.

If you are considering those 4 as the next 6 out of your best 22, you are struggling for depth, without even considering that you need to add Schoenmakers and 1 other to actually get to 28.

 

[Bulldog Joe]

Did you know that other than being our top goal scorer in 2015, Roughy also claimed the title at Hawthorn for contributing to winning the most centre clearances per centre ball-up attended? And by a significant margin.

So not only did his absence in 2016 cost us in the forward line but it also hurt us massively in the midfield where his pinch hitting was one of the most influential at Hawthorn and potentially in the entire league.

Yes I am aware of that, but it just highlights the lack of depth in the midfield.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

You would think people on here would learn about making predictions with such clarity, Hawks have lost 2 absolute legends from their midfield and replaced them with TMitch, who is no slouch by the way and is a ball magnet, and JOM who if the gamble pays off could explode onto the scene.

Roughy to step in and they will be hard to beat again

On the downside you have Hodge & co another year older and more likely to pick up niggles, JOM might break down

Who knows, it's fine to discuss what fate awaits them in 2017, but to say with such certainty one way or the other is daft,

Its bigfooty though. Unless opinions are given belligerently and definitively nobody is going to get riled up and therefore nobody is going to bother responding, which would deny the original poster a chance to repeat themselves ad nauseum and get more opposition supporters riled up..

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

If you are considering those 4 as the next 6 out of your best 22, you are struggling for depth, without even considering that you need to add Schoenmakers and 1 other to actually get to 28.

No. Never going to agree.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

What I am saying, is your depth for season 2017 is among the worst in the league. In some cases they aren't bad players, they just aren't in a position to have an impact in 2017.

And I reckon that is rubbish.

 

[Rioli magic]

So in other words it seems that your argument is "better picks = better depth", even if those better picks haven't played any more senior games.

Jono O'Rourke was taken pick 2 in the draft...how many clubs have players sitting about 30th on their list that were taken at pick 2? Hawthorn's depth is unrivaled...

Does that make sense?

 

[Bulldog Joe]

Jono O'Rourke was taken pick 2 in the draft...how many clubs have players sitting about 30th on their list that were taken at pick 2? Hawthorn's depth is unrivaled...

Does that make sense?

How does the daft pick create depth. If he is not good enough to command a game and continues to disappoint when he gets a chance, he is just another list clogger.

 

[Randy Campbell]

Perceptions based on hope.
Determined by hope for success or failure.

 

[QuietB]

Then the sides who've had higher draft picks or traded in heavily like Brisbane, Essendon, Fremantle, Collingwood, Port Adelaide, Melbourne, St. Kilda and Richmond would all rank above Hawthorn for depth spots 28+ on their list.

I'm staggered how much this offends some Hawthorn posters. The price to pay for being a successful side for a long period of time is eroding depth at the back end of your list. This season that's at it's most evident. It's not even likely to have any affect on your season in 2017, yet you can't accept something so clear to everyone else.

Richmond
Fremantle
Collingwood
Brisbane

And you do know Essendon have draft penalties and finished last.

I'm dumbfounded

 

[Catsnlakers]

Perceptions based on hope.
Determined by hope for success or failure.

I am hoping you fail believe me... But some predictions here re the hawks demise are fanciful... Will for sure make the 8 but lose in week 1 or 2 is what i think.... About the same as we will go this year.

 

[Wesley2]

Perceptions based on hope.
Determined by hope for success or failure.

Sums it up in a nutshell. So many people are desperate for the Hawks demise they'll find their reasons for it and completely ignore their confirmation bias, even if they have to resort to reading tea leaves.

 

[Rioli magic]

How does the daft pick create depth. If he is not good enough to command a game and continues to disappoint when he gets a chance, he is just another list clogger.

Not sure your sarcasm meter is working?

Anyway, in the spirit of this thread's hyperbole statements and s**t talking, let me explain...

Not all lists are equal - and not all depth players are list cloggers.

Disappointment is relative to expectations - when you are expected to crack into and perform in the greatest team of all time, chances are you will take you a few games to get up to the all time level Hawthorn generally operate at.

In reality you are one of the young guns of the competition, a standout junior taken at pick 2 in national draft, patiently biding your time while some of the greatest players of all time go about racking up silverware as the greatest team of all time.

In fact, Jono O'Rourke has been so good as the understudy and having now completed his apprenticeship, Hawthorn did not even hesitate letting go of some of these all time legends, such was the confidence in said depth.

Put this all together and Hawthorn just got better going into 2017.

 

[Screen Name]

Hang on, I haven't mentioned anything about rookie list picks from 2015 or anything similar.

You said that anyone outside of our best 28 would be considered amongst the worst in the league.

So, let's say we revisit the team I put up earlier.

Players 22-28 may be as follows.
Langford
Hartung
Howe
Lovell

So, you're saying that these depth players outside of the 28 in Schoenmakers, O'Brien, O'Rourke, Pittonet and Stewart would be amongst the worst players in that bracket in the league?

Not buying it.

So what's your best 22?

Have you included all four of Burgoyne, Birchall, Gibson and Hodge in it?

 

[Gibbke]

A few gap years ahead. Clarkson isn't thinking one year, he's got the next few seasons lined up for list replacement. But I've got faith...nothing but an awesome ride with this guy at the wheel since 2005...give it a few years and then watch as he outwits his proteges...

 

[Pessimistic]

Hawthorn's depth is in the wost shape it's been in for a long time, rightfully so because they were busy winning flags. Box Hill didn't make the finals for the first time in a long while.

Hawthorn moved on 3 premiership players this year, about the same last year and probably the same again next year. Of the 10 or so premiership players moved on, most of them club legends, they've been replaced with Mitchell and O'Meara and some high draft picks.

Hawthorn's last two Rising star nominations were Hartung and Sicily, before that, Breust is the most recent rising star nomination for the hawks. Excluding O'Meara the last Hawthorn Rising star to get a vote at the end of the season was Stratton, 6 seasons ago.

By any objective measure, Hawthorn have the least depth in the league and it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

You may not have noticed, but there's not too many players outside hawthorn of the caliber of those departed. So it will take some adjustment. All to prove as far as challenging but going way down the ladder or extended out of the four? Get off it it's not happening

 

[PhatHQ]

Your contention is that because they haven't had a game they are still good. But last year Hawthorn really needed their depth to step up and they got basically nothing out of any of them with players in and out of the side all season. Some of them have been in the system for quite a while. Not one of them has been able to cement a spot in the team despite plenty of chances for all of them. Sicily was the one and then he got dropped for the final.

There's no doubt now about Schoenmakers ability, he's been in and out of the team for years and was pushed out by Sicily, Brand and others at various times. He's simply not up to it. Whitecross was Box Hill's best player last year in the matches I watched and he's been serviceable in the AFL at best. O'Rourke was hopeless in the VFL all season.

It will be interesting to see what they can come up with next year if they do finish outside the 8 with no high draft picks this year or next. Things are going to get worse for the Hawks before they get better.

Shoey came back from a long term injury at the end of the year.
Brand is 1 full season from a shoulder reco.
WX came back from a knee reco.
O'Rourke was injured preseason along with Langford, Woodward, Burton, Spang, Webster, Surman & we lost a developing FF before the season started in Shem.
There is the depth problem & the resulting BH finish.
Nothing to do with quality of the players or what they bring to the team with their role & structure they provide