Agree, it's embarrassing. The booing even more so. People need to grow up.
List Mgmt. Hawthorn 2018 Trade discussion NO OPPOSITION SUPPORTERS Part 3
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When you look at all of our additions as a group, you get a bit more of a feel of our strategy, rather than looking in isolation of trades, free agents or just the draft.
Wingard, Scully, Scrimshaw, Minchington, Kosi, Walker, Greeves, Golds, Mohr, while still having our next years picks is astounding. Burton is the price we paid, but to going in to next year with the flexibility we have is really impressive.
There is no way we get a hand like that for just keeping our draft picks and going youth.
We are getting talent on our list through looking aggressive trading our early picks for proven, A grade players. (This year, Wingard, previous Mitchell/O'Meara and list goes on)
We then look to make up this cost, by
- Looking for value trades (Scully (injured/salary dump), Impey (I think good value for his pick as a guaranteed 22 filling a need), Scrimshaw (a highly rated jr, with some issues, who could pay off to replace Birchall)
- Meticulously scanning opposition list for DFA who could play a role. Henderson got a few 'wtf' comments at the time, but has been a really solid squad member. Minchington will be at least a Cheeney type depth player, but possibly could come in and do Puopolo's role soon, and chip in in the middle. I also really like Mohr given how hard it is to get actual key position players, or to get someone capable of filling full back now. Compared to having Heatherly on the list who was just filling time once the coaching staff didn't have have him in our plans, Mohr is a real 'Money Ball' type selection, and I'm baffled at the criticism over it.
- Making our later picks really count. After O'Meara/Mitchell trades, many scribes wrote we completely traded out of the draft. Well, Morrison, Lewis and Hanrahan were taken that year, which shows we don't think of it that way. Worpel last year too, we are showing we put as much effort in to those picks as the first rounders (and Wright said exactly that this off season). We obviously think the difference between the mid to later picks isn't huge, and we can back ourselves picking guys who slide. Remember Hardick, Sicily Worpel vs O'Brien, Lovell shows a bit of an example that its not just about having higher numbers.
If you look at the younger players we still brought in, Scimshaw, Kosi, Walker, Greeves, Golds, its not a bad group given we still brought in Wingard and Scully. I really like the balance, and it was a powerful off-season when you look at the hand altogether. Geelong set a trend the year that got Dangerfield, Smith, Henderson, Selwood in one year, of what flexibility sides have to bring in multiple options. I think we have taken note, but are a bit more systematic in what we are doing each year. If we continue with this, then we really start to shape up by 2020,2021, and if we can land an A grade free agent then we are laughing.
Future pick trading, and DFA has really changed things to when it was either bottom out for priorities of trade away future for the now. The professionalism of younger players means that there are many more players you'd be happy to draft later than in previous years, and more players are ready to go when they arrive at clubs, even with seemingly low value picks.
We set the trend with the ultra youth approach in 2005, but seems we have jumped on the new rules before others have due to studying American sports. We were laughed at and ridiculed after O'Meara's trade week, and its only taken two years for people to catch on that we might not have done as much damage as they thought, but actually been ruthless in getting ourselves strong again, and very astute in our strategy by looking at the sum of all parts, and not getting into who win individuals trades.
No doubt its a longer term plan that is in place, but I like that we have given ourselves every chance of staying competitive in the shorter term as well. Bring on 2019
Wingard, Scully, Scrimshaw, Minchington, Kosi, Walker, Greeves, Golds, Mohr, while still having our next years picks is astounding. Burton is the price we paid, but to going in to next year with the flexibility we have is really impressive.
There is no way we get a hand like that for just keeping our draft picks and going youth.
We are getting talent on our list through looking aggressive trading our early picks for proven, A grade players. (This year, Wingard, previous Mitchell/O'Meara and list goes on)
We then look to make up this cost, by
- Looking for value trades (Scully (injured/salary dump), Impey (I think good value for his pick as a guaranteed 22 filling a need), Scrimshaw (a highly rated jr, with some issues, who could pay off to replace Birchall)
- Meticulously scanning opposition list for DFA who could play a role. Henderson got a few 'wtf' comments at the time, but has been a really solid squad member. Minchington will be at least a Cheeney type depth player, but possibly could come in and do Puopolo's role soon, and chip in in the middle. I also really like Mohr given how hard it is to get actual key position players, or to get someone capable of filling full back now. Compared to having Heatherly on the list who was just filling time once the coaching staff didn't have have him in our plans, Mohr is a real 'Money Ball' type selection, and I'm baffled at the criticism over it.
- Making our later picks really count. After O'Meara/Mitchell trades, many scribes wrote we completely traded out of the draft. Well, Morrison, Lewis and Hanrahan were taken that year, which shows we don't think of it that way. Worpel last year too, we are showing we put as much effort in to those picks as the first rounders (and Wright said exactly that this off season). We obviously think the difference between the mid to later picks isn't huge, and we can back ourselves picking guys who slide. Remember Hardick, Sicily Worpel vs O'Brien, Lovell shows a bit of an example that its not just about having higher numbers.
If you look at the younger players we still brought in, Scimshaw, Kosi, Walker, Greeves, Golds, its not a bad group given we still brought in Wingard and Scully. I really like the balance, and it was a powerful off-season when you look at the hand altogether. Geelong set a trend the year that got Dangerfield, Smith, Henderson, Selwood in one year, of what flexibility sides have to bring in multiple options. I think we have taken note, but are a bit more systematic in what we are doing each year. If we continue with this, then we really start to shape up by 2020,2021, and if we can land an A grade free agent then we are laughing.
Future pick trading, and DFA has really changed things to when it was either bottom out for priorities of trade away future for the now. The professionalism of younger players means that there are many more players you'd be happy to draft later than in previous years, and more players are ready to go when they arrive at clubs, even with seemingly low value picks.
We set the trend with the ultra youth approach in 2005, but seems we have jumped on the new rules before others have due to studying American sports. We were laughed at and ridiculed after O'Meara's trade week, and its only taken two years for people to catch on that we might not have done as much damage as they thought, but actually been ruthless in getting ourselves strong again, and very astute in our strategy by looking at the sum of all parts, and not getting into who win individuals trades.
No doubt its a longer term plan that is in place, but I like that we have given ourselves every chance of staying competitive in the shorter term as well. Bring on 2019
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Would prefer a hanrahan type to get games in Poppy’s spot before DFA types
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The one thing with continually having a 1st pick around 30-60 is we will always get a player we rated 20 or so making our 1st pick much stronger than it"s face value.
I reckon we've got 18 definite Premiership standars players in place for multiple Premiership tilts in the next 4 years of Clarko's contract and 6-10 possibles depending on their development. With another 3 years worth of drafts, DFA's, trading and Free Agency left we will have a very strong team again in no time without a doubt.
I reckon we've got 18 definite Premiership standars players in place for multiple Premiership tilts in the next 4 years of Clarko's contract and 6-10 possibles depending on their development. With another 3 years worth of drafts, DFA's, trading and Free Agency left we will have a very strong team again in no time without a doubt.
Why is younger better? Why is gifting games to players who aren't ready better than doing a Box Hill development program then playing when they are ready? What makes that more valuable than picking up a DFA who can play a role, keep us competitive and possibly take a best 22 spot? I'd just prefer to play the guy who is up for the role and is suitable for the role, than just gifting a player games and then saying that is all they need to develop by being picked in the seniors each week. Going back to Box Hill was a big part of development for Worpel last year, and Box Hill will continue to be a place players work on their skills until they are ready to play a role in our game plan.
Hanrahan is definitely one to watch for us with his X-Factor, and I have been impressed every time I've seen him at Box Hill in terms of AFL traits he has. But to suggest he even has AFL standard defensive pressure at this stage, let alone elite defensive pressure like Puopolo, to do that sort of role our small forwards play yet seems pretty far fetched to me.
tommyk72
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Just came across this really interesting article on the crows: http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-12-10/how-crows-drafting-turned-one-firstround-pick-into-four
Wonder how we've gone on that front? I feel like we've got a lot of high end picks in after they've been at clubs a few years, but not got many first round selections in a while.
Wonder how we've gone on that front? I feel like we've got a lot of high end picks in after they've been at clubs a few years, but not got many first round selections in a while.
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Players I like that are supposedly gettable next year
Coniglio, S.Frost(Probs not required now with Mohr & Kosi), Sexton(Minchington and other similar players probably means his potential role is filled). Haynes would also be a good pickup but what we’ll have to give in terms of salary to him would probably be too much compared to the need.
In conclusion. Get Cogs!
Coniglio, S.Frost(Probs not required now with Mohr & Kosi), Sexton(Minchington and other similar players probably means his potential role is filled). Haynes would also be a good pickup but what we’ll have to give in terms of salary to him would probably be too much compared to the need.
In conclusion. Get Cogs!
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He’s not a free agent next year. He’s got another 3 years until he is eligible.
He may be out of contract. I don’t think Himmelberg is capable of being the #1 key forward.
I could have sworn I read in the Herald Sun about a month ago that he was one of the free agents next year, I most likely confused it with the contract expiry.
Anyway, I agree that it is unproven that he could hold down the #1 KPF spot but key forwards are becoming harder to find so if our boys don’t develop, there aren’t a lot of other options.
Thought he looked good towards the end of this season though
Brant
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Can he ruck?
- Oct 6, 2013
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He is 2m so there’s no reason why he can’t pinch hit but we don’t need a ruckman.
Brant
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I don’t think it’s a necessity. Neither Roughy or Buddy were ‘ruckman’ But Rough rucked a tiny bit but he’s 193cm.
I am going to sit on the fence with Cogs as the main man until he re-signs with GWS or signs a mega deal with Carlton.
Outside of that I’m going early to say that Patton will be our 2019 target.
RFA, cash to spend may not be as much after extensions, walk up start once Rough retires, will come cheep compared to 2MP & HH.
It would also keep the door open to grab someone like Brad Crouch.
Over the next 2 years of out of contract players my pick would be Christian Petracca. Absolutely someone that you should throw a big offer at once Cogs is off the market.
Nevertheless all this off seasons focus is on #wingardisthetarget & his mate Scully to rip into the Hawthorn way.
Outside of that I’m going early to say that Patton will be our 2019 target.
RFA, cash to spend may not be as much after extensions, walk up start once Rough retires, will come cheep compared to 2MP & HH.
It would also keep the door open to grab someone like Brad Crouch.
Over the next 2 years of out of contract players my pick would be Christian Petracca. Absolutely someone that you should throw a big offer at once Cogs is off the market.
Nevertheless all this off seasons focus is on #wingardisthetarget & his mate Scully to rip into the Hawthorn way.
Carl Spackler
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Good post. I just want to highlight that it seems people use the word "ruthless" when instead they mean "astute".
Ruthless means acting without pity or compassion. Hardly a Hawthorn trait under Clarkson. Astute, on the other hand, means accurately assessing a situation and turning it to your advantage. A much better description of Hawthorn under Clarkson.
wahawk
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I’d prefer the best available get games whether they are a DFA or a Hanrahan type (whatever that is)
No doubt Carlton will roll out the private jets. Bolts literally watches what we do, and then follows. So predictable.
Brant
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I was replacing David Hale from FF, with a ruck/forward, not Buddy/Roughy
Hale is so typical of the kind of player the hawks recruitment team goes for.
No other club would have ever really worried about him or put much time into him. He was never the best ruckman in the league - but could you imagine if we didn't have him in the threepeat years?
That'll be Impey and Wingard in the next 3 peat.
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Not sold on Patton at all....
Yep but the unfortunate thing for Bolts is Sos is picking the players he has to work with.
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