Hawthorn and free agency

[threesixpio]

ABC again said we have benefitted more than any other club. I urge a mass SMS:


'Ken sick of it

 

[Mr Lizard]

We got Frawley, we lost Franklin. Melbourne got a better compensation pick.

We also lost Suckling, Ellis, Young and Murphy.

That's the sum of our FA involvement, no?

 

[Oddhawk]

I'm happy to get on and sms but not without knowing exactly what has been said.

Link to the specific show?

 

[threesixpio]

We got Frawley, we lost Franklin. Melbourne got a better compensation pick.

We also lost Suckling, Ellis, Young and Murphy.

That's the sum of our FA involvement, no?

Yep

 

[threesixpio]

I'm happy to get on and sms but not without knowing exactly what has been said.

Link to the specific show?

Singled out as the team who has done well from free agency. Mark McClure said it

 

[threesixpio]

Grandstand in the last half hour

 

[threesixpio]

(And I normally quite like him as a footy journo)

 

[marklar]

#headf*****

 

[Matt Stevic]

Yup we benefited because our biggest rival screwed themselves over with an awful deal that would have only been possible with free agency.

Thanks Shitney

 

[Steven Tyler]

We got Frawley, we lost Franklin. Melbourne got a better compensation pick.

We also lost Suckling, Ellis, Young and Murphy.

That's the sum of our FA involvement, no?

We lost Franklin, Suckling, Young, and Murphy. Campbell Brown also left as a start-up concession to Gold Coast
We lose Ellis as a delisted free agent

We gained Frawley
We gained Simpkin as a delisted free agent

 

[Agent Smith]

We lost Franklin, Suckling, Young, and Murphy. Campbell Brown also left as a start-up concession to Gold Coast
We lose Ellis as a delisted free agent

We gained Frawley
We gained Simpkin as a delisted free agent

Yep, definitely a free kick to Hawthorn there. Why don't they just come out and say we owe our threepeat to free agency?

 

[Steven Tyler]

Yep, definitely a free kick to Hawthorn there. Why don't they just come out and say we owe our threepeat to free agency?

We used our compensation pick from Campbell Brown to pick up David Hale
I think that's why the media include him in free agency talk

 

[Gralin]

We used our compensation pick from Campbell Brown to pick up David Hale
I think that's why the media include him in free agency talk

Which just makes them dumber as we didn't lose Brown to free agency we lost him to expansion. He could only go to Gold coast

 

[Hawkas1988]

It's ridiculous how often the media and opposition supporters just assume we got Lake and McEvoy etc as free agents.

We paid more than fair value at the time for everyone bar probably Gunston.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

What did we get for Budd and what did the Cats get for Ablett?

 

[Max Powers]

For opposition supporters and the media :

Hawthorn benefitting from free agency more than any other club.

GET IT NOW!

 

[HR Roughnstuf]

Of all the #PremiershipHawthorn meme's I made this one gets the most re runs

 

[Steven Tyler]

Of all the #PremiershipHawthorn meme's I made this one gets the most re runs

View attachment 281607

 

[The Lemon]

As I said in the other....

Rohan Connolly: If the Hawks got Mitchell and O'Meara it would spark a revamp of the draft #CoachesBox

******* campaigner

 

[RohanConnolly]

Hi folks, You may or may not be aware I was asked to do a Q&A on here a couple of weeks back. I enjoyed it, and have been taking a look around various boards since.

I wish hadn't stumbled on to your post, "The Lemon", but seeing as I did, please allow me to make a few points.

1. I understand the Hawks have acquired much of their imported talent through shrewd trading and drafting, and as far as I'm concerned, good luck to them. I've actually spoken on air before about how people get wrong the extent to which they've benefited through free agency. They're a really well run club, and deserve all the success they get.

2. The point I was making was that regardless of how they go about it, were they to end up with both Mitchell and O'Meara, through whatever means, a significant number of people in football, and I suspect people running the game, would see that as further evidence that the draft had veered away from the intent it was supposed to have, which is to help poorer-performing clubs.

3. Do I agree with that view? No, I don't. Which is why I spent considerable time the other week arguing AGAINST David King's draft revamp proposal or the idea that Brisbane should get a priority pick. I believe this as I think the competition over the last couple of decades has given more teams a chance than ever before. In fact only three teams, Brisbane, Melbourne and St Kilda, haven't played finals at all in the last three years. Only two teams (barring GWS and GC) haven't played in an AFL grand final, and 11 clubs have shared the 26 flags in the AFL era.

4. So, basically, you've taken me saying Hawthorn getting that pair of players would spark a draft revamp as meaning I think it SHOULD spark a draft revamp. Which I don't.

5. But even if I did think that, which, just to be perfectly clear once again for your benefit, "Lemon", I DON'T, how does that justify calling someone who has an alternative view a FC? (and yes, I understand what campaigner is a euphemism for)

6. Hope that clears things up for you. Can I also say at this point, I think there's some great discussion on these boards. Unfortunately, "Lemon", your contribution wasn't part of that. Hope at some stage you can learn to actually (a) listen properly, (b) conduct a civil debate, and (c) try expanding your vocabulary.

Cheers,
Rohan

 

[Steven Tyler]

1. I understand the Hawks have acquired much of their imported talent through shrewd trading and drafting

2. The point I was making was that regardless of how they go about it, were they to end up with both Mitchell and O'Meara, through whatever means, a significant number of people in football, and I suspect people running the game, would see that as further evidence that the draft had veered away from the intent it was supposed to have, which is to help poorer-performing clubs.

1. Much?
We have only ever picked up 2 players through free agency, and 1 was a delisted free agent who is now at your club
Frawley and Simpkin
We've lost 5!

2. The draft hasn't veered away from its intent, free agency has!
No decent free agent will EVER move to a poor performing side
Stevie Wonder could have seen that happening!

Only average or nearly finished players would consider a move to a poor side
Brendan Goddard a perfect example!

Use Melbourne as an example for the draft:
Years of poor drafting/choosing the wrong type of kid, or piss-poor development, or both, sees them year after year down the bottom, and how many top picks have they had? Countless!
Who's fault? Melbourne's
The draft favours crap teams, so why can't these teams push up the ladder with the top youngsters coming through?
Hawks did back in the early 2000's



Clubs that can adapt to the ever-changing landscape that the AFL dictate shouldn't be penalised because others can't!

 

[Gold Member]

Hi folks, You may or may not be aware I was asked to do a Q&A on here a couple of weeks back. I enjoyed it, and have been taking a look around various boards since.

I wish hadn't stumbled on to your post, "The Lemon", but seeing as I did, please allow me to make a few points.

1. I understand the Hawks have acquired much of their imported talent through shrewd trading and drafting, and as far as I'm concerned, good luck to them. I've actually spoken on air before about how people get wrong the extent to which they've benefited through free agency. They're a really well run club, and deserve all the success they get.

2. The point I was making was that regardless of how they go about it, were they to end up with both Mitchell and O'Meara, through whatever means, a significant number of people in football, and I suspect people running the game, would see that as further evidence that the draft had veered away from the intent it was supposed to have, which is to help poorer-performing clubs.

3. Do I agree with that view? No, I don't. Which is why I spent considerable time the other week arguing AGAINST David King's draft revamp proposal or the idea that Brisbane should get a priority pick. I believe this as I think the competition over the last couple of decades has given more teams a chance than ever before. In fact only three teams, Brisbane, Melbourne and St Kilda, haven't played finals at all in the last three years. Only two teams (barring GWS and GC) haven't played in an AFL grand final, and 11 clubs have shared the 26 flags in the AFL era.

4. So, basically, you've taken me saying Hawthorn getting that pair of players would spark a draft revamp as meaning I think it SHOULD spark a draft revamp. Which I don't.

5. But even if I did think that, which, just to be perfectly clear once again for your benefit, "Lemon", I DON'T, how does that justify calling someone who has an alternative view a FC? (and yes, I understand what campaigner is a euphemism for)

6. Hope that clears things up for you. Can I also say at this point, I think there's some great discussion on these boards. Unfortunately, "Lemon", your contribution wasn't part of that. Hope at some stage you can learn to actually (a) listen properly, (b) conduct a civil debate, and (c) try expanding your vocabulary.

Cheers,
Rohan

Hi Rohan.

Thanks for gracing our board. I enjoy your segments on SEN, your music not so much though.

Keep up the good work.

 

[Pessimistic]

Hi folks, You may or may not be aware I was asked to do a Q&A on here a couple of weeks back. I enjoyed it, and have been taking a look around various boards since.

I wish hadn't stumbled on to your post, "The Lemon", but seeing as I did, please allow me to make a few points.

1. I understand the Hawks have acquired much of their imported talent through shrewd trading and drafting, and as far as I'm concerned, good luck to them. I've actually spoken on air before about how people get wrong the extent to which they've benefited through free agency. They're a really well run club, and deserve all the success they get.

2. The point I was making was that regardless of how they go about it, were they to end up with both Mitchell and O'Meara, through whatever means, a significant number of people in football, and I suspect people running the game, would see that as further evidence that the draft had veered away from the intent it was supposed to have, which is to help poorer-performing clubs.

3. Do I agree with that view? No, I don't. Which is why I spent considerable time the other week arguing AGAINST David King's draft revamp proposal or the idea that Brisbane should get a priority pick. I believe this as I think the competition over the last couple of decades has given more teams a chance than ever before. In fact only three teams, Brisbane, Melbourne and St Kilda, haven't played finals at all in the last three years. Only two teams (barring GWS and GC) haven't played in an AFL grand final, and 11 clubs have shared the 26 flags in the AFL era.

4. So, basically, you've taken me saying Hawthorn getting that pair of players would spark a draft revamp as meaning I think it SHOULD spark a draft revamp. Which I don't.

5. But even if I did think that, which, just to be perfectly clear once again for your benefit, "Lemon", I DON'T, how does that justify calling someone who has an alternative view a FC? (and yes, I understand what campaigner is a euphemism for)

6. Hope that clears things up for you. Can I also say at this point, I think there's some great discussion on these boards. Unfortunately, "Lemon", your contribution wasn't part of that. Hope at some stage you can learn to actually (a) listen properly, (b) conduct a civil debate, and (c) try expanding your vocabulary.

Cheers,
Rohan

I like your stuff these days Rohan.

Has any journos made the 'we dont send the best kids to the worst universities' comment in this discussion?

 

[crazywildhorse]

Hi folks, You may or may not be aware I was asked to do a Q&A on here a couple of weeks back. I enjoyed it, and have been taking a look around various boards since.

I wish hadn't stumbled on to your post, "The Lemon", but seeing as I did, please allow me to make a few points.

1. I understand the Hawks have acquired much of their imported talent through shrewd trading and drafting, and as far as I'm concerned, good luck to them. I've actually spoken on air before about how people get wrong the extent to which they've benefited through free agency. They're a really well run club, and deserve all the success they get.

2. The point I was making was that regardless of how they go about it, were they to end up with both Mitchell and O'Meara, through whatever means, a significant number of people in football, and I suspect people running the game, would see that as further evidence that the draft had veered away from the intent it was supposed to have, which is to help poorer-performing clubs.

3. Do I agree with that view? No, I don't. Which is why I spent considerable time the other week arguing AGAINST David King's draft revamp proposal or the idea that Brisbane should get a priority pick. I believe this as I think the competition over the last couple of decades has given more teams a chance than ever before. In fact only three teams, Brisbane, Melbourne and St Kilda, haven't played finals at all in the last three years. Only two teams (barring GWS and GC) haven't played in an AFL grand final, and 11 clubs have shared the 26 flags in the AFL era.

4. So, basically, you've taken me saying Hawthorn getting that pair of players would spark a draft revamp as meaning I think it SHOULD spark a draft revamp. Which I don't.

5. But even if I did think that, which, just to be perfectly clear once again for your benefit, "Lemon", I DON'T, how does that justify calling someone who has an alternative view a FC? (and yes, I understand what campaigner is a euphemism for)

6. Hope that clears things up for you. Can I also say at this point, I think there's some great discussion on these boards. Unfortunately, "Lemon", your contribution wasn't part of that. Hope at some stage you can learn to actually (a) listen properly, (b) conduct a civil debate, and (c) try expanding your vocabulary.

Cheers,
Rohan

So... are you going to join some of your less distinguished colleagues and turn these threads into stories?

(...And it must do your head in, as a trained journalist, trying to argue with opinionated ex-players like Mr King.)

 

[Brishawk]

Hi folks, You may or may not be aware I was asked to do a Q&A on here a couple of weeks back. I enjoyed it, and have been taking a look around various boards since.

I wish hadn't stumbled on to your post, "The Lemon", but seeing as I did, please allow me to make a few points.

1. I understand the Hawks have acquired much of their imported talent through shrewd trading and drafting, and as far as I'm concerned, good luck to them. I've actually spoken on air before about how people get wrong the extent to which they've benefited through free agency. They're a really well run club, and deserve all the success they get.

2. The point I was making was that regardless of how they go about it, were they to end up with both Mitchell and O'Meara, through whatever means, a significant number of people in football, and I suspect people running the game, would see that as further evidence that the draft had veered away from the intent it was supposed to have, which is to help poorer-performing clubs.

3. Do I agree with that view? No, I don't. Which is why I spent considerable time the other week arguing AGAINST David King's draft revamp proposal or the idea that Brisbane should get a priority pick. I believe this as I think the competition over the last couple of decades has given more teams a chance than ever before. In fact only three teams, Brisbane, Melbourne and St Kilda, haven't played finals at all in the last three years. Only two teams (barring GWS and GC) haven't played in an AFL grand final, and 11 clubs have shared the 26 flags in the AFL era.

4. So, basically, you've taken me saying Hawthorn getting that pair of players would spark a draft revamp as meaning I think it SHOULD spark a draft revamp. Which I don't.

5. But even if I did think that, which, just to be perfectly clear once again for your benefit, "Lemon", I DON'T, how does that justify calling someone who has an alternative view a FC? (and yes, I understand what campaigner is a euphemism for)

6. Hope that clears things up for you. Can I also say at this point, I think there's some great discussion on these boards. Unfortunately, "Lemon", your contribution wasn't part of that. Hope at some stage you can learn to actually (a) listen properly, (b) conduct a civil debate, and (c) try expanding your vocabulary.

Cheers,
Rohan

Thanks Rohan.

The real problem with the draft is that it is compromised is many ways. Free agency compo has to go. When Melbourne realised that Frawley would net them pick 3 they had a strong incentive to let him go instead of working hard to retain him.

In addition, this pick pushed all of the picks for other clubs down the draft order so the likes of Brisbane, bull dogs etc. we worse off due to decisions made by Melbourne. Worse still this impacts every pick in the draft for every club other than stkilda' pick 1.

Secondly all the zones and academies are going to make this a lot worse. Trading for points is creating greater potential for clubs to climb the draft order and in the long run this wil favour mid to top teams with lots of depth on their list as opposed to weak teams.

Thirdly, the minimum payable salary cap needs to be lowered or abandoned to allow more flexibility for lower placed clubs to structure their cap space to recruit more players instead of being forced to pay bad players big money and then not being able to trade them away because they are stuck on big contracts.

Fourthly, free agency needs to be easier to qualify for. When a team loses a player they should have the opportunity to recruit another free agent. Right now that doesn't happen because few players actually qualify and remain unsigned by the end of the season. More free agents means more ability to use cap space to recruit.