Hawthorn and Sam Mitchell selling out Clarko

[5ammy]

Doesn't look like he feels sold out to me.

What a bloody legend, love this man

 

[hawkman]

So it all fell apart in 7 days. They couldnt even get to the end of the year and spend the pre season planning. We are 17th. What was the risk with continuing to plan the handover ?

If it was mutual Clarko would have taken partial pay. They paid in full to buy his silence.

Has it been reported anywhere that its a full payout. There was one report i saw that it was 900k. There were rumours that we still had $1.8m owing him

 

[HairyO]

Holy smokes, you got it exactly right! Would you happen to know tonight's lottery numbers by any chance?

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and supps 7, and 8.

I s**t you not.

 

[HairyO]

I am talking about the state of the list that is on Clarko.

The one that won 3 in a row 6 years ago with him desperately going for 4 in a row ?

Far better to have settled on 2 flags and then rebuilt early eh ?

 

[HairyO]

Has it been reported anywhere that its a full payout. There was one report i saw that it was 900k. There were rumours that we still had $1.8m owing him

Caro said paid in full. She seems to be more believable than anyone at Hawthorn so far.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I’m still just asking the question. Why do you think Mitchell is going to be the right coach? Because he won premierships? How well has he been coaching Box Hill? Is he a great teacher/communicator? I don’t know. I’m just wanting to understand why he is better than others who are available.

Ok, he’s a very good communicator and has an excellent footy brain.
Go ask West Coast posters about his work as their midfield coach in 2018.
There‘s literally Eagles players on the record who say that without Mitchell they probably don’t win the flag.

He has Box Hill humming this year.
Maybe you caught his sides game against Collingwood VFL today?

 

[HairyO]

I’m still just asking the question. Why do you think Mitchell is going to be the right coach? Because he won premierships? How well has he been coaching Box Hill? Is he a great teacher/communicator? I don’t know. I’m just wanting to understand why he is better than others who are available.

Great job at Box Hill but the VFL is now a farce of a competition. The top 8 teams are litterally playing different game to the bottom 8 teams (and we have played a lot of them).

There are a heap of great line coaches. Not so many great head coaches. We knew what we had with Clarko. Mitchell is an unknown. The board took a ridiculous risk dumping Clarko for Mitchell.

 

[PetterdHoisted]

Ok, he’s a very good communicator and has an excellent footy brain.
Go ask West Coast posters about his work as their midfield coach in 2018.
There‘s literally Eagles players on the record who say that without Mitchell they probably don’t win the flag.

He has Box Hill humming this year.
Maybe you caught his sides game against Collingwood VFL today?

Not really relevant for me, Mitchell could be the second coming, but he isn't yet. We are talking about a GOAT coach who has already got pretty decent preformance with a rebuilding side, getting treated like trash.

Seriously, they tried for two weeks, then said 'too hard, here's some cash, scram'?

 

[HairyO]

Not really relevant for me, Mitchell could be the second coming, but he isn't yet. We are talking about a GOAT coach who has already got pretty decent preformance with a rebuilding side, getting treated like trash.

Seriously, they tried for two weeks, then said 'too hard, here's some cash, scram'?

Exactly. And had the gall to blame the players for complaining about it.

Give me a ******* break. We are 17th and 4 weeks away from season end. Clarko and Mitchell then had literally months to work out what to do.

Which should have been simple. Mitchell is still green. He had another year to learn how to coach at Box Hill. He could suggest to Clarko but Clarko still made the decisions. Just like this year.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Not really relevant for me, Mitchell could be the second coming, but he isn't yet. We are talking about a GOAT coach who has already got pretty decent preformance with a rebuilding side, getting treated like trash.

Seriously, they tried for two weeks, then said 'too hard, here's some cash, scram'?

There's a list of question marks over our last 5 years, which many Hawthorn fans have asked, which is why so many are actually ok with the decision that was made.

It's how it's been handled that has been farcical, but these are your own words two years ago....

"Hawthorn desperately needed to go off a cliff, but Clarko's legacy-obsession didn't allow it. What occurred as a result is exactly as I predicted 3 years ago, after a bit of yo-yo-ing they have settled perfectly at 9th, middling at its absolute finest. It was so obvious.

They need a coach who is not so over-burdened with GOAT labels that he/she can contemplate a genuine rebuild. What is the plan this year? Roughie went out playing VFL, Burger is leaving? Poppy? they'll bring in a few good ones, sure, but you need to just to stand still with so much aging elite talent going out the door each year. Hence the iterating towards 9th.

So here we are, 3 years after it was clear the Hawks golden age was over. They have achieved things, but in the end nothing significant, finishing just outside finals or going out in straight sets. Critically though they got nothing (virtually) for Hodge, for Roughie, for Cyril, for Pops, for Burgoyne etc. All that currency burned on the alter of Clarko's ego."


It's pretty clear that the club recognised that Clarkson wasn't redirecting his focus to the future of the list quite quick enough(through the fallout of last year it is said), and subsequently made the call.
And FWIW, it's been widely rumoured on the hawk board since very early this year that this was going to be his last contract, the Graham Wright attempt to have a look at Sam Mitchell just fast-tracked all plans and conversations, which has had Hawthorn scrambling ever since.

 

[HairyO]

There's a list of question marks over our last 5 years, which many Hawthorn fans have asked, which is why so many are actually ok with the decision that was made.

It's how it's been handled that has been farcical, but these are your own words two years ago....

"Hawthorn desperately needed to go off a cliff, but Clarko's legacy-obsession didn't allow it. What occurred as a result is exactly as I predicted 3 years ago, after a bit of yo-yo-ing they have settled perfectly at 9th, middling at its absolute finest. It was so obvious.

They need a coach who is not so over-burdened with GOAT labels that he/she can contemplate a genuine rebuild. What is the plan this year? Roughie went out playing VFL, Burger is leaving? Poppy? they'll bring in a few good ones, sure, but you need to just to stand still with so much aging elite talent going out the door each year. Hence the iterating towards 9th.

So here we are, 3 years after it was clear the Hawks golden age was over. They have achieved things, but in the end nothing significant, finishing just outside finals or going out in straight sets. Critically though they got nothing (virtually) for Hodge, for Roughie, for Cyril, for Pops, for Burgoyne etc. All that currency burned on the alter of Clarko's ego."


It's pretty clear that the club recognised that Clarkson wasn't redirecting his focus to the future of the list quite quick enough(through the fallout of last year it is said), and subsequently made the call.
And FWIW, it's been widely rumoured on the hawk board since very early this year that this was going to be his last contract, the Graham Wright attempt to have a look at Sam Mitchell just fast-tracked all plans and conversations, which has had Hawthorn scrambling ever since.

Or maybe Clarko gets the loyalty and dedication from his players by not axing them or trading them early and will always 100% go to bat for them.

Even Burton I think ultimately agreed on the trade to Port.

Im pretty sure GWS were after Breust for years but Breust didnt want to go. To get JOM GCS demanded players but none wanted to go so Clarko made Wright go through hell dealing with Cochrane.

I wonder what all the players Buckley axed after he took over think.

 

[Billys Back]

Great job at Box Hill but the VFL is now a farce of a competition. The top 8 teams are litterally playing different game to the bottom 8 teams (and we have played a lot of them).

There are a heap of great line coaches. Not so many great head coaches. We knew what we had with Clarko. Mitchell is an unknown. The board took a ridiculous risk dumping Clarko for Mitchell.

No doubt a difficult situation. Clarkson has coached for a long time. Would love to know if he still had the fire to rebuild the Hawks and what time frame he gave himself to do it. Obviously the president understood the Hawks wouldn't be challenging for a couple more years as they re-build for longer term success, as he outlined to members. I assume what hurt Clarkson is the fact that the club believes he is incapable of developing and delivering success in 3+ years and that Mitchell was more likely.

And you're correct. Plenty of good assistant coaches, who are just that. Not easy being a head coach and it's a roll of the dice if you have chosen the right one. That's why I would assume a comprehensive review to find potentially the right guy would be imperative. Right now, even former coaches and now assistant coaches such as Voss and Leppitsch may be better senior coaches with the added experience working as assistants at successful clubs. Why wouldn't anyone be speaking with Leppitsch? Coached too early with a sub-par team and then joined Richmond and was part of their most successful period. He probably would have learnt a few things along the way. Not saying he is the answer, but some well credentialed possible senior coaches out there.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

His reply will probably be OMFG can't you do that yourself

The dude doesn't get the jokes. Every time it's ....almost again.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Or maybe Clarko gets the loyalty and dedication from his players by not axing them or trading them early and will always 100% go to bat for them.

Even Burton I think ultimately agreed on the trade to Port.

Im pretty sure GWS were after Breust for years but Breust didnt want to go. To get JOM GCS demanded players but none wanted to go so Clarko made Wright go through hell dealing with Cochrane.

I wonder what all the players Buckley axed after he took over think.

Loyalty is great. Trying to win flags is great too. I was all for it.

Ultimately though when you refuse to identify that the list is going backwards and that you need to embrace the future, the board will be forced to make the decision, and thats what has happened here.

 

[JackFlash]

When you lose a job for reasons that have nothing to do with your performance, something's up? He'll be at Collingwood?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

When you lose a job for reasons that have nothing to do with your performance, something's up? He'll be at Collingwood?

Seen the ladder lately?


Or this?

 

[SA HAWK]

When you lose a job for reasons that have nothing to do with your performance, something's up? He'll be at Collingwood?

Have you seen our last 3 years?

 

[PetterdHoisted]

There's a list of question marks over our last 5 years, which many Hawthorn fans have asked, which is why so many are actually ok with the decision that was made.

It's how it's been handled that has been farcical, but these are your own words two years ago....

"Hawthorn desperately needed to go off a cliff, but Clarko's legacy-obsession didn't allow it. What occurred as a result is exactly as I predicted 3 years ago, after a bit of yo-yo-ing they have settled perfectly at 9th, middling at its absolute finest. It was so obvious.

They need a coach who is not so over-burdened with GOAT labels that he/she can contemplate a genuine rebuild. What is the plan this year? Roughie went out playing VFL, Burger is leaving? Poppy? they'll bring in a few good ones, sure, but you need to just to stand still with so much aging elite talent going out the door each year. Hence the iterating towards 9th.

So here we are, 3 years after it was clear the Hawks golden age was over. They have achieved things, but in the end nothing significant, finishing just outside finals or going out in straight sets. Critically though they got nothing (virtually) for Hodge, for Roughie, for Cyril, for Pops, for Burgoyne etc. All that currency burned on the alter of Clarko's ego."


It's pretty clear that the club recognised that Clarkson wasn't redirecting his focus to the future of the list quite quick enough(through the fallout of last year it is said), and subsequently made the call.
And FWIW, it's been widely rumoured on the hawk board since very early this year that this was going to be his last contract, the Graham Wright attempt to have a look at Sam Mitchell just fast-tracked all plans and conversations, which has had Hawthorn scrambling ever since.

haha cheers, thanks for reminding me about that! I kept warning what would happen post-2016 but none of the main board Hawks would listen to me. It all transpired exactly as I suggested.

But that was the course chosen, and I don't think anyone could look at the Hawks this year and not see green shoots, I've been really impressed particularly by the crop of young talls coming through.

That's all by the bye though.

This is about repectful end of tenure for a legend coach of their club. What an absolute disaster of a fortnight for the club. If we do that with the other great coach of the modern era, Hardwick, I will cancel my membership.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Ok, he’s a very good communicator and has an excellent footy brain.
Go ask West Coast posters about his work as their midfield coach in 2018.
There‘s literally Eagles players on the record who say that without Mitchell they probably don’t win the flag.

He has Box Hill humming this year.
Maybe you caught his sides game against Collingwood VFL today?

I feel like every premiership player says that they couldn't have done it without every coach, trainer, medico, boot studder, social media intern and canteen attendant.

Just my opinion, but Mitchell seems to me like a player who got the absolute maximum out of himself and will be a perfectionist and won't be very forgiving of inconsistent performance and effort. That could go either way for him with the list Hawthorn's expected to have over the next couple of years.

I don't think it can be denied that most of the hype he's generating as a future coach is because of his playing career, when practically every premiership coach of the past 15 years was a good/very good player, not a superstar. I saw the news of Voss and Kingsley being the front runners for the Pies job and someone remarked "who?" about Kingsley. Not a hall of fame player (just a premiership, B&F and 200-odd games), so how could he possibly be a good coach?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I feel like every premiership player says that they couldn't have done it without every coach, trainer, medico, boot studder, social media intern and canteen attendant.

Just my opinion, but Mitchell seems to me like a player who got the absolute maximum out of himself and will be a perfectionist and won't be very forgiving of inconsistent performance and effort. That could go either way for him with the list Hawthorn's expected to have over the next couple of years.

I don't think it can be denied that most of the hype he's generating as a future coach is because of his playing career, when practically every premiership coach of the past 15 years was a good/very good player, not a superstar. I saw the news of Voss and Kingsley being the front runners for the Pies job and someone remarked "who?" about Kingsley. Not a hall of fame player (just a premiership, B&F and 200-odd games), so how could he possibly be a good coach?

He’s been a well regarded assistant for 5 years, and currently coaching a side in the VFL that almost scores at will.

I think it’s easy to say he’s well regarded due to his name as a player, but there’s a reason Wright wanted him at the Pies and why the Eagles were filthy at him leaving.

 

[HairyO]

Seen the ladder lately?


Or this?

Mitchell definitely would have done better ?

Or another coach not contracted ?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Mitchell definitely would have done better ?

Or another coach not contracted ?

Those stats are damming and clearly emphasise Clarkson can’t get the players up for the start of games.

Noble has the excuse of being a new coach with a new group, so the gap between Hawthorn and the next group with a well embedded coach is massive.

This is just one reason why Clarkson was not renewed.

 

[JackFlash]

Have you seen our last 3 years?

Okay, i guess he no runs on the board. I have seen nothing but undermining and lack of support in a club on a dramatic slide both on and off the field.

 

[nineteen eighty]

Seen the ladder lately?


Or this?

Have you seen our last 3 years?

Mitchell definitely would have done better ?

Or another coach not contracted ?

Clarkson is a 4/5 goal better coach than almost all other coaches. He is easily the smartest in the room (as opposed to Scott who thinks he is...sorry couldn't help myself).

The club took the punt to go for another flag...on top of the 3 in a row. Does anyone believe it was Clarkson's decision alone to roll the dice?

The was always going to have to be a rebuild. As happened at the Lions. As will happen to the Tiges either end of this year or next. And at the start of the rebuild, Clarko has the list showing plenty of promise. What did people expect?

Something else is at play here. Is this simply Kennett doing a Kennett? He was always going to get one over on Clarko. I guess he finally got his man. And meanwhile, a contender for GOAT coach walks. With almost $1m in a suitcase. And a hit to the soft cap. And a rookie coach taking over.

Nice one Kennett

 

[Forever North]

Quite possibly the dumbest decision an AFL club has ever made. Getting rid of a once in a generation coach for a cocky rookie coach in these uncertain covid times. Kennet putting his ego ahead of anything else, gambling with the clubs future.

 

[HairyO]

Clarkson is a 4/5 goal better coach than almost all other coaches. He is easily the smartest in the room (as opposed to Scott who thinks he is...sorry couldn't help myself).

The club took the punt to go for another flag...on top of the 3 in a row. Does anyone believe it was Clarkson's decision alone to roll the dice?

The was always going to have to be a rebuild. As happened at the Lions. As will happen to the Tiges either end of this year or next. And at the start of the rebuild, Clarko has the list showing plenty of promise. What did people expect?

Something else is at play here. Is this simply Kennett doing a Kennett? He was always going to get one over on Clarko. I guess he finally got his man. And meanwhile, a contender for GOAT coach walks. With almost $1m in a suitcase. And a hit to the soft cap. And a rookie coach taking over.

Nice one Kennett

Kennett has spent 10 years wanting to get a coach he could own.

And now he has succeeded.