Play Nice Hawthorn culture and Fagan

[dlanod]

This is going to be a very touchy subject.

There will be a very broad range of opinions about the correct way to handle this.

I'll remind everyone to post respectfully at this time - sniping at each other is not going to help.

Any continued pointless back and forth will get a day or more to cool off. If you want to avoid this fate, let it go.

 

[Mr Ripper]

This ain’t good

Family separations and pregnancy termination: Hawthorn racism review reveals shock allegations against former coaches

Alastair Clarkson and Chris Fagan are named in a Hawthorn review into how First Nations players were treated during Clarkson's time at the helm of the Hawks. Warning — this story contains details of self-harm, pregnancy loss, and intergenerational trauma for Indigenous people.

www.abc.net.au

 

[western royboy]

Big Trouble

 

[haystark]

Horror reading. Serious ramifications you’d think…

 

[Squizz89]

IF it is true, honestly wtf were they thinking?

 

[3KZ is Football]

Family separations and pregnancy termination: Hawthorn racism review reveals shock allegations against former coaches

Stunned.

 

[Viceregal]

Ouch that was not a good read.

The two questions that spring to my mind (outside of the obvious) are:

1) was this a general cultural attitude (ie this was the way Hawthorn rolled and the same thing was happening to non-aboriginal players as well) and

2) I know that there are similar attitudes of its either career or family for eg young lawyers, budding politicians etc - how common is it among the sporting world in general (eg if you were a recent 'draftee' at Barcelona or Liverpool or the Yankees or Giants or Lakers etc would they expect you to prioritise your career (and their investment) over your desire to have children) and at other AFL Clubs.

 

[pulpdriver]

That is absolutely horrible. I understand they were fostering a success is paramount approach but the events described are absolutely dehumanising behaviour and some of the expectations are just plain cruel. There will be fallout from this. One can only hope from our own club perspective and how we've postured ourselves as "the family club" that such insidious attitudes and expectations have never been allowed to foster. Hopefully just a dark chapter in a closed pursuit of ultimate success, hardly consolation to the people impacted though.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Hard to believe it's true bit with all the detail in the article ita hars to refute

Hope Daly and Swann are starting work early and putting the feelers out for a new coach

 

[Bucking Beads]

I think we can calm our farm in regards to a new coach at the moment. Lets just see how this unfolds.

 

[dlanod]

I hope the club gets on the front foot on responding to this and not just giving a nothing statement.

The article very much focuses on Clarkson and Burt. Fagan is mentioned maybe once having a direct interaction. I would like to see an explanation and, if appropriate, an apology from Fagan stepping forward rather than sitting on its hands and waiting to see what the backlash/impact/Clarkson's reaction is, especially if he was only tangentially involved.

 

[Mighty Lions]

I hope the club gets on the front foot on responding to this and not just giving a nothing statement.

The article very much focuses on Clarkson and Burt. Fagan is mentioned maybe once having a direct interaction. I would like to see an explanation and, if appropriate, an apology from Fagan stepping forward rather than sitting on its hands and waiting to see what the backlash/impact/Clarkson's reaction is, especially if he was only tangentially involved.

The club will most likely stay quiet as possible until the investigation is completed....what else could they do???

If Fagan is part of the story & the story is true, it looks extremely bad for him. Unsure he could continue as coach.

 

[lioninthesand]

First and foremost, I felt sick reading it. Absolutely disgusting, even if it was only 10% true.

I’m not going to shoot from the hip, I’ve learnt from the Zorko incident.

All I’ll say is, it’s (rightfully) going to be a massive story and my gut feel is there will be a massive fallout.

 

[lioninthesand]

I hope the club gets on the front foot on responding to this and not just giving a nothing statement.

The article very much focuses on Clarkson and Burt. Fagan is mentioned maybe once having a direct interaction. I would like to see an explanation and, if appropriate, an apology from Fagan stepping forward rather than sitting on its hands and waiting to see what the backlash/impact/Clarkson's reaction is, especially if he was only tangentially involved.

I think it’s important we read posts like these, to temper our emotions as this unfolds, so thank you.

The only thing I’ll say is, he is tangibly involved from what I’ve read so far. And, even being a party to this stuff given his position, is going to mean he is directly tied to it, you’d imagine.

However, we need to just take a deep breath and see where the emerging info takes us.

Also agree on him getting on the front foot.

 

[Hojuman]

Feelings not good here lads either. How can our season from hell get even worse ? ☹

 

[Nathan Barley]

The club will most likely stay quiet as possible until the investigation is completed....what else could they do???

If Fagan is part of the story & the story is true, it looks extremely bad for him. Unsure he could continue as coach.

If there's a hint of truth Fagan has to stand down pending an outcome of the investigation and if the investigation is likely to continue into next year then we might have to move on

Unless he's totally clean you can't expect our indigenous players and staff to work with him

 

[Squizz89]

Whether he was directly or indirectly involved, if he knew what was going on and did nothing to stop it, I think it's irrelevant really. The outcome should and would be the same. This is all on the presumption that there is something to it of course, which as others have said we will need to wait as there will be more to this to play out.

 

[Mighty Lions]

I think it’s important we read posts like these, to temper our emotions as this unfolds, so thank you.

The only thing I’ll say is, he is tangibly involved from what I’ve read so far. And, even being a party to this stuff given his position, is going to mean he is directly tied to it, you’d imagine.

However, we need to just take a deep breath and see where the emerging info takes us.

Also agree on him getting on the front foot.

I dont condone Fagan stepping down unless it's found true & factual.

 

[RoyBoy17]

Needs both sides of the story and context.

 

[KissKiss]

That was a horrible read this morning. Feel quite sick to be honest.

No matter what happens I think its clear all AFL clubs need to go through a similar full review. Two clubs have some out with horrible recent history and I think the whole system needs to be looked at

 

[Nunez]

I dont condone Fagan stepping down unless it's found true & factual.

Nor do I, but if he witnessed all of that first hand and did not speak up - regardless of whether he strongly disagreed or not - he should rightly step down.

I'd hope that he would have though. Everything he's displayed at the Lions has been the opposite of what's in the report and has really embraced making this a safe space for indigenous players.

 

[lioninthesand]

I dont condone Fagan stepping down unless it's found true & factual.

Yeah I’d imagine that’s a given. Most of the time a reports findings are guarded as true and factual, there’s an assumption that only valid claims are included. So unless those involved want to come out and deny the allegations of victims, I don’t see how the allegations will be taken as anything but true and factual. But hopefully in the fullness of time we get more info, it’s going to be a s**t show in the media though.

 

[nup]

That was a horrible read this morning. Feel quite sick to be honest.

No matter what happens I think its clear all AFL clubs need to go through a similar full review. Two clubs have some out with horrible recent history and I think the whole system needs to be looked at

good point

 

[Nathan Barley]

Unless the story is completely fabricated it'd be tough for Fagan to come out clean

 

[haystark]

The only issue I have with this is Clarkson, Fagan and other Hawthorn staff weren’t afforded the anonymity that those levelling the allegation were given.

The level of detail the article goes in to does not bode well for those mentioned but I would’ve thought a thorough investigation by the league first would’ve been better rather than throwing these people under the bus.

Obviously I’m biased because this could ruin the person who turned the fortunes of our club around but I think let’s wait before we start calling for his head.

 

[Nunez]

The only issue I have with this is Clarkson, Fagan and other Hawthorn staff weren’t afforded the anonymity that those levelling the allegation were given.

The level of detail the article goes in to does not bode well for those mentioned but I would’ve thought a thorough investigation by the league first would’ve been better rather than throwing these people under the bus.

Obviously I’m biased because this could ruin the person who turned the fortunes of our club around but I think let’s wait before we start calling for his head.

It's a bit hard to hide the identity of senior coaches when it can only be a few people. Naming them was the right thing to do IMO.