Autopsy Hawthorn defeats Geelong by 4 points @ University of Tas Stadium, Friday 17th Feb 2017 (7.40pm)

[Stan The Caddy]

Is there ever one?

Yep, fair point.

 

[Daniel McL]

Okay, an exclusion for Port supporters. Surely that would get our 2 clubs united? I wouldnt be surprised if that flog regularly copped on a beating on a Friday and Saturday night.



Certainly some crazy things were tried. Not sure Ive ever seen Grant Birchall in the centre square before. Watching Cockatoo tag Roughie was interesting. Cant imagine either of those would happen in a regular game.

But can we all agree that the highlight was Langford's run down tackle on Dangerfield? Far better than Mackie's 9 pointer !

Highlights of the game had to be Zach Guthrie's goal.

Not often you see a 10 year old kick a goal in the AFL

 

[HairyO]

Highlights of the game had to be Zach Guthrie's goal.

Not often you see a 10 year old kick a goal in the AFL

True. Did Hawkins get credit for that crazy bouncing goal or did Motlop?

 

[Stan The Caddy]

Fair enough. I felt his decision making needs some work. Would often handball to a player under pressure, or miss his kick when attempting to hit up a target. Mind you, he got plenty of ball and is just starting his second year, so I can see him improving. I'm hoping he does.

Yeah Ruggles looked shaky with ball in hand to me aswell. As did Lonergan and Cowan but we do have to remember that it is only one pre season game.

 

[And_ROOS]

Was working, so just watched the replay. Not going to rehash what has already been said.

For the nay sayers - watch it again, so many mismatches. Gr8 learning curve for both teams.

Was really proud of our 'kittens' and new recruits.

Thought the Hawk, HT, Black fwd line worked.

Add Linc and Menzel and or Motlop to that forwardline, and it becomes VERY hard to match up on.

 

[Seeds]

If there was no attitude it wouldnt be fun

A couple of years ago Hawkins went through a period of jumper punching people and the AFL would always excuse it because jumper punching wasnt considered a real strike, but he forgot to grab the jumper when he punched Ben Stratton, and it was cleared by the MRP. Hawkins is lucky Stratton has a strong jaw, because if you look at the impact I reckon I would have been knocked in to next week.

Then there was an uproar from Geelong fans when he did finally get penalised for the hit on Davis?. Personally I think if you punch someone in the head it should be a week no matter what - regardless of the club - and for all the talk about Hawthorn, have a look at the free ride the AFL gives the Swans week in, week out - Buddy would get rubbed out for weeks on end at Hawthorn but gets protected over and over at Sydney. I even think a punch to the stomach should get a week - and either last year or the year before we had about half a dozen players only getting a fine for it, but the first player to get a week would send a message to all the other players to stop it.

Its a blight on the game and has no place in it.

As for Lang, the contact was minimal and he got straight back up. Hardly what you would call a snipe. If you look at the other angles Lang ducks and gets clipped, rather than hit solidly. I said in the MRP section that if Shiels got a week for that, Frost deserved a month for his tackle on Matera. Remember, the MRP are using the same rules for AFL and AFLW, and that Collingwood girl got 2 weeks for knocking out the Melbourne player. So clearly the benchmark is being set pretty high (again I dont agree with it).

BTW: McEvoy twice had to leave the field after getting hit in the head. He is a 2m tall ruckman, so I assume it wasnt accidental contact during a tackle... but there was no mention by anyone about either of them. One was a stray arm in a ruck contest - something a certain retired Swans player was always being excused for, and I dont know about the other, but it appeared to have re-opened the wound.

Anyway, its a practice match. We got through unscathed and JOM looked very good despite not having played for 2 years. Geelong still need to find a way to get Hawkins space - and Im not sure Taylor is the one. Maybe Henderson, but again I dont think he is the one either. The injury to Guthrie is hopefully only a minor ankle roll, rather than something more serious. Didnt see Henderson get hurt so not sure how bad that is.

Which is really what practice matches are about. Blowing away cobwebs and getting match fitness without getting injured.

Cheers.

(BTW: we get a lot of visitors on our board and very rarely do the mods penalise. Mostly its fun watching the melts.)

So if you punch someone in the head no matter how lightly you should get a week. Then in the very next paragraph you say shiels should get off from whacking a player in the head because the hit was minimal (even though it forced the player to fall to the ground). Do you see the inconsistent bias in your post?

 

[HairyO]

So if you punch someone in the head no matter how lightly you should get a week. Then in the very next paragraph you say shiels should get off from whacking a player in the head because the hit was minimal (even though it forced the player to fall to the ground). Do you see the inconsistent bias in your post?

Based on the rules as now written. As opposed to how the rules should be written.

The introduction of the fines was all about allowing Brownlow favourites to win Brownlows and save the AFL from the embarrassment of the highest vote getter being excluded.

But it opened a Pandoras Box of other issues.

There should be a list of offences where you dont get 2 fines before a real punishment. Shiels should have copped a week much like Hawkins should have copped a week when he punched Stratton a couple of years ago. And the dozens of gut punches we saw last year should all have been 1 week.

 

[Seeds]

Based on the rules as now written. As opposed to how the rules should be written.

The introduction of the fines was all about allowing Brownlow favourites to win Brownlows and save the AFL from the embarrassment of the highest vote getter being excluded.

But it opened a Pandoras Box of other issues.

There should be a list of offences where you dont get 2 fines before a real punishment. Shiels should have copped a week much like Hawkins should have copped a week when he punched Stratton a couple of years ago. And the dozens of gut punches we saw last year should all have been 1 week.

Lewis and hodge would of only played 12 games a year between 2006-12 if gut punches were an automatic week.

 

[Stan The Caddy]

Add Linc and Menzel and or Motlop to that forwardline, and it becomes VERY hard to match up on.

Don't forget Cockatoo either. He showed some good signs aswell.

 

[Shai]

Okay, an exclusion for Port supporters. Surely that would get our 2 clubs united? I wouldnt be surprised if that flog regularly copped on a beating on a Friday and Saturday night.



Certainly some crazy things were tried. Not sure Ive ever seen Grant Birchall in the centre square before. Watching Cockatoo tag Roughie was interesting. Cant imagine either of those would happen in a regular game.

But can we all agree that the highlight was Langford's run down tackle on Dangerfield? Far better than Mackie's 9 pointer !

I have no idea what you are talking about with your 1st (bolded) point..?

Funny thing is, gut punches were pretty much ignored at the AFL's discretion until it went against the preferred team.

Langford is 1 of those I regard as an arrogant prat, so do not look 4 me to agree with anything he does.

 

[catswhiskers]

If there was no attitude it wouldnt be fun
........
As for Lang, the contact was minimal and he got straight back up. Hardly what you would call a snipe. If you look at the other angles Lang ducks and gets clipped, rather than hit solidly. I said in the MRP section that if Shiels got a week for that, Frost deserved a month for his tackle on Matera. Remember, the MRP are using the same rules for AFL and AFLW, and that Collingwood girl got 2 weeks for knocking out the Melbourne player. So clearly the benchmark is being set pretty high (again I dont agree with it).
..................................

Lucky he did. As you say if he had not ducked he would have been half way thru next week.

 

[BotsMaster]

Add Linc and Menzel and or Motlop to that forwardline, and it becomes VERY hard to match up on.

Yeah but even if you did it's still season over for us this year going by what has been said in this thread.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Based on the rules as now written. As opposed to how the rules should be written.

The introduction of the fines was all about allowing Brownlow favourites to win Brownlows and save the AFL from the embarrassment of the highest vote getter being excluded.

But it opened a Pandoras Box of other issues.

There should be a list of offences where you dont get 2 fines before a real punishment. Shiels should have copped a week much like Hawkins should have copped a week when he punched Stratton a couple of years ago. And the dozens of gut punches we saw last year should all have been 1 week.

Fines shouldn't be a fixed amount, it hurts less established players more than the stars of the game earning 300k+(who make the most part of AFL sides). It should be a fixed % of their base salary. Say 5%, a 300k player being docked 15000 would stop melees and love taps very quick.

 

[Shai]

Add Linc and Menzel and or Motlop to that forwardline, and it becomes VERY hard to match up on.

Linc & Menz, yes please!

 

[sarah.13]

Yeah Ruggles looked shaky with ball in hand to me aswell. As did Lonergan and Cowan but we do have to remember that it is only one pre season game.

They are also the 3 players that continually bring our forward thrust to a halt by going backwards of 10 meter kicks sideways.

 

[TEDDY24INC]

They are also the 3 players that continually bring our forward thrust to a halt by going backwards of 10 meter kicks sideways.

Teams purposely leave lonergan loose on the fat side.. Domsy needs to roll the dice in this situation and not second guess himself, I'd rather him attack and turn it over deep than panick and turn it over with a crappy lil sideways chip

 

[Daniel McL]

True. Did Hawkins get credit for that crazy bouncing goal or did Motlop?

Hawkins haha, which I'm happy with because that was ridiculous.

 

[ChookNorris]

Teams purposely leave lonergan loose on the fat side.. Domsy needs to roll the dice in this situation and not second guess himself, I'd rather him attack and turn it over deep than panick and turn it over with a crappy lil sideways chip

This a thousand times. Why our blokes don't realise it is beyond me.

 

[Stan The Caddy]

They are also the 3 players that continually bring our forward thrust to a halt by going backwards of 10 meter kicks sideways.

I don't mind them doing that if there is no viable option up field and only watching the game on tv it's hard for me to know if they were passing up good options further up the field or not. Whatever the case though, particularly if they're going to take the safe option, they must hit their targets which at times in game 1 they failed to do.

 

[Turbocat]

They are also the 3 players that continually bring our forward thrust to a halt by going backwards of 10 meter kicks sideways.

Mmm its like they want to ensure that THEY dont turn it over yet in being too careful they ensure a much harder contest further up the ground. I can live with Domsie , he brings more to the table when the ball comes in and he is 1o1 but at Ruggles and Cowans height they just can be too defensive. Especially when Cowan selection would be somewhat based on run.

 

[catswhiskers]

Mmm its like they want to ensure that THEY dont turn it over yet in being too careful they ensure a much harder contest further up the ground. I can live with Domsie , he brings more to the table when the ball comes in and he is 1o1 but at Ruggles and Cowans height they just can be too defensive. Especially when Cowan selection would be somewhat based on run.

Especially Cowan as you say. The value I have seen in Cowan has always been his ability to get to the right places ( many times as a linking player) and get the ball moving.

He has been tried in the VFL down back and except for his ability to organise the very inexperienced defence he offered little IMO. Small body wise and not a penetrating kick.

In his "comeback games" Cowan has played higher and has provided some good defensive pressure and got involved in some effective offensive work. If Cowan can't play higher in AFL he should be be playing wing in VFL at season start. Not in defence.

This mirrors my views on Bews I would prefer Bews to start 2017 as a forward in the VFL learning under match conditions (not match simulation) how to manufacture goals and run down forwards.

If nether improve in those roles then I think both will be gone.

 

[Son_Of_God29]

Did anyone else think that the "commentary" in the 1st half from Dermie made the game almost unwatchable?

 

[Grimoz]

Fines shouldn't be a fixed amount, it hurts less established players more than the stars of the game earning 300k+(who make the most part of AFL sides). It should be a fixed % of their base salary. Say 5%, a 300k player being docked 15000 would stop melees and love taps very quick.

The WAGS would be belting them around the head for cutting into there shopping and pampering budgets....how on earth will they survive on $5,000 per week....HOW....wont somebody think of the WAGS!!!!!!!!

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Especially Cowan as you say. The value I have seen in Cowan has always been his ability to get to the right places ( many times as a linking player) and get the ball moving.

He has been tried in the VFL down back and except for his ability to organise the very inexperienced defence he offered little IMO. Small body wise and not a penetrating kick.

In his "comeback games" Cowan has played higher and has provided some good defensive pressure and got involved in some effective offensive work. If Cowan can't play higher in AFL he should be be playing wing in VFL at season start. Not in defence.

This mirrors my views on Bews I would prefer Bews to start 2017 as a forward in the VFL learning under match conditions (not match simulation) how to manufacture goals and run down forwards.

If nether improve in those roles then I think both will be gone.

I agree with that although I wouldn't stress as much as some are. While it would be handy if either Ruggles or Bews or Cowan seriously came on as a small defender as then we could leave Guthrie upfield permanently, at the end of the day if our list is fully fit guys like Bews and Ruggles and Cowan are probably ranked 20-30 on the list and mainly depth players. It's the middle tier players like Guthrie, Duncan, Motlop, Scott Selwood, Blicavs, Menegola and Smith/Stanley that need to take big steps forward to give better support to our best players (who to me are Dangerfield Selwood Hawkins Henderson and Menzel when fit and Tuohy will probably join this group). If we can do that and a few younger players can fill structurally important roles and improve (McCarthy and Cockatoo for better forward pressure and finishing, Stewart and Thurlow for run from half back and Kolodashnij standing up as a KPD so Taylor can stay forward if we can't find a better 2nd KPF) we are going to go pretty close to winning the flag and if they don't we won't regardless of what depth players like Cowan et al do. You will rarely win a flag off the back of your depth players but if you can get very solid dependable reliably performing middle tier players to support your star players (Hawthorn and Sydney have both been very good at manufacturing this) you will always be around the mark.

 

[4quarter_cat]

Whilst I agree PO, the media wax lyrical about how important the bottom 3 players on the team list are come GF day.