Hawthorn - Do they trade into the first round this season?

Bulldog Joe

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The "problem" is that when they got to the top they traded early picks for players and stayed on top long enough to win three flags in a row.

Obviously that level of sustained success cannot last forever, but they made the most if their time in the sun.

This slide is inevitable but I wouldn't trade any of the premierships for extra draft picks.
Absolutely agree with that.

Issue that I raised in 1 or 2 pre-season threads was the trading at the end of 2016.
The loss of 2016 and 2017 draft picks as well as the dumping of club greats just seemed wrong.
Evidence now is that Hawthorn will not challenge in the next 3 years.
 

Bulldog Joe

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Got a Dogs team from 2012? They managed to win a flag 4 years later. 5 wins 2012. 8 wins 2013. 7 wins 2014.

About half the best 22 from 2012 has moved on. How did their list get rated in 2015?

People seem to have this bizarre belief that a single Draft will make or break a club, and that whatever they do right now will affect them for the next 8 or 10 years.

The rebuild for the Dogs actually started with the 2010 draft, when they added Wallis, Liberatore, Dahlhaus and Johannisen.
They also picked up premiership players in 2011 with Clay Smith and Tory Dickson, then 2012 with Stringer, Macrae and Hunter and added the cream with Bontempelli in 2013.

They also traded in some good players over that period.

However, it took 6 years of very good draft results and still the premiership win is considered ahead of time due to the youth of the team.

It would be really difficult to see any side getting it done quicker.

As Hawthorn have not really embraced the rebuild until now, they would be looking at 2023 if they choose the same path.
 
It's a conundrum.

Players that have value IMO:
Breust
Gunston
Rioli
Smith
Frawley
Birchall
Hartung?
Dureya?

McEvoy doesn't, IMO ruck values are extremely low right now due to a number of established and upcoming rucks, it's a buyer's market. Only Freo has major queries for 2018.

I think they could get into the first with Cyril or Gunston. Cyril would be a pick upgrade IMO while Gunston would be an outright pick.

Can see Melbourne chasing Smith hard, would be a wonderful foil for Stretch.
 
It's a conundrum.

Players that have value IMO:
Breust
Gunston
Rioli
Smith
Frawley
Birchall
Hartung?
Dureya?

McEvoy doesn't, IMO ruck values are extremely low right now due to a number of established and upcoming rucks, it's a buyer's market. Only Freo has major queries for 2018.

I think they could get into the first with Cyril or Gunston. Cyril would be a pick upgrade IMO while Gunston would be an outright pick.

Can see Melbourne chasing Smith hard, would be a wonderful foil for Stretch.

Hawthorn are not trading anyone of Gunston, Smith, Breust and Rioli. They all contracted long term. If other clubs want one of them they are going to have to cough up something decent either a player or a high draft pick.

All 17 other teams had the chance of drafting Smith in 2010 and they all overlooked him because he was four years older than his fellow draftees. He has no interested in playing for another club. He was just appointed the vice captain.

If the Hawks rated this years draft then they wouldn't have traded away their first round pick.

Gunston is a center half forward who's only 25. How many other center half forwards do Hawthorn have on it's list? Zero.

People are forgetting that Roughead is 30 and when he retires they'll be nobody left to fill the void up forward if Gunston is traded.

Hawthorn aren't trading these players. They are in that middle-age bracket and are essential to Hawthorn's needs.

Puopolo is 30 and is near the end of his career. So trading Rioli or Breust would wipe out Hawthorn's small forward stocks entirely.
 
Apr 24, 2013
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Apr 24, 2013
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This is stupid.

Franklin, Roughead, Mitchell, Lewis, Smith, Sewell, Shiels, Hodge, Birchall, Bruest, Stratton, Rioli is an absolute great drafting department.

Apart from Lake and Burgoyne, you could argue that there recruits didn't have that much impact.

Gibson won the B&F in a two premiership years. Hale is a triple premiership ruckman. Gunston was also pretty handy
 
Hawthorn are not trading anyone of Gunston, Smith, Breust and Rioli. They all contracted long term. If other clubs want one of them they are going to have to cough up something decent either a player or a high draft pick.

All 17 other teams had the chance of drafting Smith in 2010 and they all overlooked him because he was four years older than his fellow draftees. He has no interested in playing for another club. He was just appointed the vice captain.

If the Hawks rated this years draft then they wouldn't have traded away their first round pick.

Gunston is a center half forward who's only 25. How many other center half forwards do Hawthorn have on it's list? Zero.

People are forgetting that Roughead is 30 and when he retires they'll be nobody left to fill the void up forward if Gunston is traded.

Hawthorn aren't trading these players. They are in that middle-age bracket and are essential to Hawthorn's needs.

Puopolo is 30 and is near the end of his career. So trading Rioli or Breust would wipe out Hawthorn's small forward stocks entirely.
Good luck acquiring draft capital then.
 

JG22

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Hawthorn are not trading anyone of Gunston, Smith, Breust and Rioli. They all contracted long term. If other clubs want one of them they are going to have to cough up something decent either a player or a high draft pick.

All 17 other teams had the chance of drafting Smith in 2010 and they all overlooked him because he was four years older than his fellow draftees. He has no interested in playing for another club. He was just appointed the vice captain.

If the Hawks rated this years draft then they wouldn't have traded away their first round pick.

Gunston is a center half forward who's only 25. How many other center half forwards do Hawthorn have on it's list? Zero.

People are forgetting that Roughead is 30 and when he retires they'll be nobody left to fill the void up forward if Gunston is traded.

Hawthorn aren't trading these players. They are in that middle-age bracket and are essential to Hawthorn's needs.

Puopolo is 30 and is near the end of his career. So trading Rioli or Breust would wipe out Hawthorn's small forward stocks entirely.
Struggle to believe that.

They wanted O'Meara, and were going to do what it took to get him.
Add to that they wouldn't have a great grasp of the draft a year out anyway.
While they wouldn't have expected such a steep fall aswell.
 
Hawthorn aren't trading these players.

I agree, they are not.

So what exactly is your club planning to do to correct the imbecilic maneuvers that, on face value, appear to be moves of your senior coach?
 

bumsonseats

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Would Hawthorn be keen to trade Frawley back to us? He is what we need now and the Hawks would be desperate for picks, but unsure what they'll do with their backline as they'll have a few guys retire.

What compo did you get for him......pick 4 wasn't it?
Will take half of what you get for him.....so let's call it about pick 8 or your first rounder

If it was me personally, I would say yes.
We have couple of young up and coming KPD which at this stage are unknown quantities but certainly look promising. Perhaps not ready for senior football this year, but sometimes you just have to give the kids ago.

Unfortunately, Frawley has been a bit of a whipping boy at times. I am not entirely sure he fit our setup, and his decision making at times has been questionable IMO. Having said that, he has been okay at times this year and may be starting to lose the Melbourne stench he endured in his previous life.
 
Apr 24, 2013
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We're going to give our olde pals at North Melb a call

Once bitten twice shy.

Thompson was a good player

In: Nathan Thompson (Hawthorn)
Out: Pick 10 (Chris Egan, Collingwood), Pick 26 (Matt Little, Hawthorn)

However, we would be doing better due diligence before we would trade for someone like Hay.
 

Saint

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Hawthorn are not trading anyone of Gunston, Smith, Breust and Rioli. They all contracted long term. If other clubs want one of them they are going to have to cough up something decent either a player or a high draft pick.

All 17 other teams had the chance of drafting Smith in 2010 and they all overlooked him because he was four years older than his fellow draftees. He has no interested in playing for another club. He was just appointed the vice captain.

If the Hawks rated this years draft then they wouldn't have traded away their first round pick.

Gunston is a center half forward who's only 25. How many other center half forwards do Hawthorn have on it's list? Zero.

People are forgetting that Roughead is 30 and when he retires they'll be nobody left to fill the void up forward if Gunston is traded.

Hawthorn aren't trading these players. They are in that middle-age bracket and are essential to Hawthorn's needs.

Puopolo is 30 and is near the end of his career. So trading Rioli or Breust would wipe out Hawthorn's small forward stocks entirely.

So what you're saying is that you wouldn't be happy if any of those guys were traded. Which is fine.

It just means Hawthorn won't be in this year's draft and Hawthorn's rebuild will be delayed another year. A year which a lot of your players (including those listed above) don't really have to waste at the prime of their careers.

I think Hawthorn's list management will see that it's in the best interests of the players and the club that they get back into this year's draft somehow.
 

IanW

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Hawthorn are not trading anyone of Gunston, Smith, Breust and Rioli. They all contracted long term. If other clubs want one of them they are going to have to cough up something decent either a player or a high draft pick.

All 17 other teams had the chance of drafting Smith in 2010 and they all overlooked him because he was four years older than his fellow draftees. He has no interested in playing for another club. He was just appointed the vice captain.

If the Hawks rated this years draft then they wouldn't have traded away their first round pick.

Gunston is a center half forward who's only 25. How many other center half forwards do Hawthorn have on it's list? Zero.

People are forgetting that Roughead is 30 and when he retires they'll be nobody left to fill the void up forward if Gunston is traded.

Hawthorn aren't trading these players. They are in that middle-age bracket and are essential to Hawthorn's needs.

Puopolo is 30 and is near the end of his career. So trading Rioli or Breust would wipe out Hawthorn's small forward stocks entirely.

*shrug* then Hawthorn arent getting back into the first round.
 

briztoon

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Struggle to believe that.

They wanted O'Meara, and were going to do what it took to get him.
Add to that they wouldn't have a great grasp of the draft a year out anyway.
While they wouldn't have expected such a steep fall aswell.

I disagree with this comment. It's in the interest of every club to have a grasp of future draft classes.

No, they're not going to know who is going to be the number one pick. But they are going to have a good idea who could possibly be in the top 10 mix.

Right now, every club knows who is in the AFL academy level one squad. That's 26 players teams will have a bio for. And each team should have at least 1 scout watching the U16 tournament.

By the time trade period rolls around, teams will have seen which other 17 years olds will have been added to the current level one squad on the back of the under-agers performances in the U18 tournament.

Teams will have a grasp on next years northern academy players, what father son prospects are out there.

At worst, teams should know the King twins look like exceptional KPP talent, S.A. has a serious small forward/mid talent in Izak Rankine, and Geelong Falcons Sam Walsh looks to be a very good outside mid in next years draft pool. Sydney might be drafting the number player as he's in their academy, even though he's also eligible to be drafted by the Lions or Kangaroos as a father son prospect.
 

Bender571

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All 17 other teams had the chance of drafting Smith in 2010 and they all overlooked him because he was four years older than his fellow draftees.

This isn't correct even though he was pick 19, because GC pushed everyone down the order that year. When Smith was picked Freo, Swans, Dogs, Saints and Pies hadn't entered the draft yet.
 

foj1

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Can't believe how sanctimonious some people are.
They won 4 flags in 9 years and have recruited a 23 year old who is the leading possession getter in the afl.
They are trying to avoid bottom outing completing by getting known qualities.
I wish Essendon have made the mistakes the hawks have made
 
Can't believe how sanctimonious some people are.
They won 4 flags in 9 years and have recruited a 23 year old who is the leading possession getter in the afl.
They are trying to avoid bottom outing completing by getting known qualities.
I wish Essendon have made the mistakes the hawks have made

Do not for one second believe that the vast majority have anything less than the utmost respect for what the Hawks achieved.

My personal point of amusement was/is the almost complete denial of Hawthorn fans to fail to recognise what was happening before they took the field this year.

Much of the precursors to an almighty fall were there, and the list management decisions that followed were jaw dropping in just how poor they were.

I suppose as an Essendon fan, I found it stunningly ironic, the sheer acceptance and group delusion.
 

briztoon

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Hawthorn don't have the currency to meaningfully trade into the first round this year.

They could trade a good player and their second round pick for a late first but would that even be worthwhile? Doubt it.
Hawthorn don't own their second round pick. They do own GWS's second round pick.
 

Cleric

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Can't believe how sanctimonious some people are.
They won 4 flags in 9 years and have recruited a 23 year old who is the leading possession getter in the afl.
They are trying to avoid bottom outing completing by getting known qualities.
I wish Essendon have made the mistakes the hawks have made
But their losses in the next couple of years are going to far outweigh the ins of Mitchell and Omera.
Hodge, Shaun B, Gibson, Poppy and Roughy.
Add to that the daft trade in of Vickery and Henderson.
This is total rebuild territory and not a Geelong style reboot. And when it is a total rebuild they dont even have draft picks to do it.
 
Apr 24, 2013
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I remember saying the same thing about Chick, Thompson, Rawlings, Hay and Croad in the early 00s.

Never say never.

Chick wanted out - traded for pick 8 Luke Brennan (19 games) FAIL!

Thompson wanted out after contracting clinical depression at Hawthorn- Traded for 10 and 26, Collingwood got 10, Hawthorn took Matt Little with 26 (1 game) FAIL!

Rawlings wanted out - The infamous "Veale deal" saw Jade in the PSD to the bulldogs. Hawthorn received Danny Jacobs (45 games) FAIL!

Hay wanted out after he also contracted a mental illness that was covered up by Hawthorn - Trade for pick 18 Max Bailey (43 games) slight but devious Win

Trent Croad - Well, there's only one Freo. The only real win of these trades. Doubled down again when Croad came back, but they did give up a better player in McPharlin who (surprise, surprise) wanted out. WIN!

Hawthorn effectively owes its premiership era to Fremantles ineptness.

Good luck getting that to happen again.
 
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