Hawthorn FC worst nightmare the 2017 Draft

[Strapping Young Lad]

What???

If you can ever translate a Leeda post into something relatable to the topic you’ll have done well.

 

[JoondalupJ]

I'm not trying to be a smart arse here, however I watched Vickery for years when he was with us... Fundamently at his core he is lazy, always takes the easy option, leads to the pockets, won't chase ,barely runs and on top of that he sulks....every once in awhile he will lift his rating a bit and have an okay game... But this is a tease and it never lasts...... I actually mostly just watched him at a game a few years back and he almost moves at the speed of continental drift...about a metre a year... Like astronauts have to have the right stuff to succeed it's the same with footy players... Sadly the stuff Ty has is wrong...
He should be delisted by you guys at seasons end next year
However toward the end of next season realizing the end is near he will lift his rating ( because he is not without talent) and play some good games... But if you fall for this and resign him the s**t he will serve up the following year will make you want to shoot him
He's lazy.... That's it

Joey I think you are spot on mate. I have experienced a bit of what Richmond had with him, just this last season gone, I saw a good game from him thought he'd turned, then he dropped off. You guys saw it for a long time. I guess our people thought we can change him around, its a pity because I don't think any one can turn him around except Ty himself.
But I reckon Hawthorn will do as you think, and delist him down the track , he seems unable to perform.

And although its a hard thing to say about a person who thinks he's elite at football, well he is purely too lazy to be elite consistently at all. Correct.

 

[JoondalupJ]

Hoping so, but it is easier to see the upside in O'Meara after his last few games of the season than it is in Vickery. Certainly hope for his sake he can have a good year, can't be a nice feeling to go from being one club's whipping boy to playing the same role at your next club. At some point he probably starts thinking "Maybe it is just me after all", which would be unfair, especially given how badly the rest of the Hawthorn team were playing when he was dropped back to Box Hill (and the same could be said for his time at Richmond).

You would expect Vickery to be up and about , when you talk about other Hawks not playing so well. That is when you need a player who can grab up the slack, he couldn't. And dropped when other Hawks were playing badly, I think I would describe the bad playing times rather as when Hawthorns' new blood was getting itself used to carrying the can at top level.
So Ty was needed then, didn't perform. He needs an attitude change or retirement.

Or is he that talented or is he just lazy.

 

[Dr Tigris]

Joey I think you are spot on mate. I have experienced a bit of what Richmond had with him, just this last season gone, I saw a good game from him thought he'd turned, then he dropped off. You guys saw it for a long time. I guess our people thought we can change him around, its a pity because I don't think any one can turn him around except Ty himself.
But I reckon Hawthorn will do as you think, and delist him down the track , he seems unable to perform.

And although its a hard thing to say about a person who thinks he's elite at football, well he is purely too lazy to be elite consistently at all. Correct.

The most annoying thing about him is that he has played enough games at A grade level that you know he is capable of being in AA contention. Then you see 80-90% of his matches - and he's in VFL ordinary player contention. When he's up and about he hits hard, run like the wind and has great skill and evasiveness. Then next month you'd out run him yourself!

Anyway the Hawks problem not ours. One of recent times greatest wasted talents (not due to injury)

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

I'm not trying to be a smart arse here, however I watched Vickery for years when he was with us... Fundamently at his core he is lazy, always takes the easy option, leads to the pockets, won't chase ,barely runs and on top of that he sulks....every once in awhile he will lift his rating a bit and have an okay game... But this is a tease and it never lasts...... I actually mostly just watched him at a game a few years back and he almost moves at the speed of continental drift...about a metre a year... Like astronauts have to have the right stuff to succeed it's the same with footy players... Sadly the stuff Ty has is wrong...
He should be delisted by you guys at seasons end next year
However toward the end of next season realizing the end is near he will lift his rating ( because he is not without talent) and play some good games... But if you fall for this and resign him the s**t he will serve up the following year will make you want to shoot him
He's lazy.... That's it

Can't argue with any of this. Had this opinion of him before we got him and unfortunately its still the same.

I was happy we went for him because he cost bugger all and at the time we had no Ceglar, Hale and Roughy was recovering from cancer. We needed him and I was optimistic a change would sort him out.

Unfortunately, he never came goo. Fortunately, Roughy recovered from cancer and TOB showed a bit more, so he is just depth these days.

 

[HeHateMe]

What's a 2017 draft. Ain't we all skipping a year?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[HairyO]

I’m concerned about Kane Cornes. He seems like he is trying way too hard to be controversial and that sort of show doesn’t normally have a very long lifespan.

Hutchy has made millions out of being a s**t stirring flog. The only questions is whether there is room for another.

 

[Hawker55]

Hutchy has made millions out of being a s**t stirring flog. The only questions is whether there is room for another.

Hutchy at least generally has 'info' (for what it's worth) that he reports on. Kane Cornes just seems to be coming out with over the top comments to generate a name for himself. He's trying to be an upmarket Akermanis.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Hutchy is a little different. He asks questions that he might already know the answer too. He raises things that might get under the skin of a club or player.

Cornes just seems to go all out, 110% troll, every second day.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

such a nightmare that are totally opting out of it.

 

[hawkermitch]

I've just stumbled on this thread.
Giving away first rounders at a time when the list is fading in my humble opinion is never a good thing.
Regardless of reasons no player is worth 2 first round picks or more and it has been done again by another side.

The recruitment of players like Vickery, who I agree with a Tigers one who said he is lazy is spot on.
Roughy unsure of playing with cancer and Ceglar with the knee is the reason hawks got him in.
The club should've got a player that puts in and can be valuable but chose Vickery bad choice.
Hawks said they will not trade him - but if a club wanted to trade for him it would happen.
If not Box Hill have him for 2018 and then delist.
The trading of hawks first pick in the 2nd round for Jarman Impey - sorry just don't get it.
When I've seen him play he passes the ball both had and foot to opposition players.
Impey was a whipping Boy at Port now they flash his image like he's a great get, not in my eyes.
I get that he's fast and young so are many other players.
I'll have to see hawks and Clarko's plans as I don't get it, sorry, just see and average player for mine.

GW claims he wants hawks to move up in the draft, okay, with slick moves or magic?

Bewildered by the hawks especially over the last couple of years; wait and see.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

I dunno, if we were going to trade ourselves out of a draft for some established talent, then this year seems to be a good one to do it...

 

[Furn2]

It all stems from the illusion that going to the draft with high picks is some kind off proven formula and the general overating of draft picks.

Its also the fact that when a player is drafted and shows a bit in his first 2-3 years its assumed he's going to be a player but the step from decent looking kid to genuine AFL level player is rarely taken. How often do we hear how player X who was drafted with a pick traded away looks good only for him to fade into obscurity down the track ?

Heres a quite sobering analysis of the actual value of draft picks

https://www.draftguru.com.au/analysis/pick-value-comparison/all-time

Some highlights include only 1 in 6.3 picks from 6-10 will play 200 games and only 1 in 7.5 will ever be an AA.

When you move into the 21-30 range its even more dire with a 1 in 13.3 chance of a 200 gamer and a 1 in 20 chance of getting an AA.

and these stats dont include recent drafts btw this is drafts that have had time to reach these milestones.

 

[hk89]

It all stems from the illusion that going to the draft with high picks is some kind off proven formula and the general overating of draft picks.

Its also the fact that when a player is drafted and shows a bit in his first 2-3 years its assumed he's going to be a player but the step from decent looking kid to genuine AFL level player is rarely taken. How often do we hear how player X who was drafted with a pick traded away looks good only for him to fade into obscurity down the track ?

Heres a quite sobering analysis of the actual value of draft picks

https://www.draftguru.com.au/analysis/pick-value-comparison/all-time

Some highlights include only 1 in 6.3 picks from 6-10 will play 200 games and only 1 in 7.5 will ever be an AA.

When you move into the 21-30 range its even more dire with a 1 in 13.3 chance of a 200 gamer and a 1 in 20 chance of getting an AA.

and these stats dont include recent drafts btw this is drafts that have had time to reach these milestones.

Those stats on AAs per pick are fascinating. Clearly Hawthorn have been well ahead of the curve for several years now on how much a proven player is worth compared to a speculative draft pick.

By my calculations if you add up the cumulative chances of getting a player that wins an AA selection over their entire career from all the draft picks we gave up for both O'Meara and Mitchell then we'd have had less than a 50% chance of drafting just 1 AA player.

We already have 1 AA player out of those 2, and not just any AA, but the highest possession accumulator in the history of the game. We probably overpaid for O'Meara, but if he can pick up an AA selection eventually himself - which doesn't seem to be completely out of the question - then it appears we absolutely nailed these decisions given Mitchell by himself already has us ahead on what the draft picks given up for these two would have yielded on average.

 

[threesixpio]

Good thread.

Tom Mitchel - what a dud

Looks like Harry Morrison is a shocking pick at 77 too.

That Jaegar O’Meara will never get on the field

 

[craffles]

Good thread.

Tom Mitchel - what a dud

Looks like Harry Morrison is a shocking pick at 77 too.

That Jaegar O’Meara will never get on the field

Chill out. You guys just beat a terrible collingwood side.

 

[hk89]

Chill out. You guys just beat a terrible collingwood side.

This thread has nothing to do with our win against Collingwood. It is about giving up a bunch of speculative picks to get Mitchell and O'Meara into the club, and whether that was a sensible choice or not. Stats on draft pick success says that so far it was a no-brainer for Hawthorn, and that is without O'Meara having shown much. Right now we are comfortably ahead from a talent acquired versus picks given up point of view. If O'Meara becomes a consistently good player then we are massively ahead.

 

[threesixpio]

Chill out. You guys just beat a terrible collingwood side.

Totally. Not a big deal.

But Tom Mitchell is a gun and Jaegar is playing

Fact

 

[craffles]

Totally. Not a big deal.

But Tom Mitchell is a gun and Jaegar is playing

Fact

Mitchell yep, Jaeger has a fair way to go over a long period of time to prove he is worth the price paid.

 

[QuietB]

Mitchell yep, Jaeger has a fair way to go over a long period of time to prove he is worth the price paid.

Thanks again for Burgoyne. Jaeger will be fine

 

[threesixpio]

Mitchell yep, Jaeger has a fair way to go over a long period of time to prove he is worth the price paid.

Which means there is a fair way to go before we can say that the 2017 draft is/was/will be Hawthorn’s worst nightmare.

Kind of my point...

 

[Jade]

Good thread.

Tom Mitchel - what a dud

Looks like Harry Morrison is a shocking pick at 77 too.

That Jaegar O’Meara will never get on the field

Sweet jesus I would NOT be tempting fate if I were you...

 

[hk89]

Which means there is a fair way to go before we can say that the 2017 draft is/was/will be Hawthorn’s worst nightmare.

Kind of my point...

I disagree, just getting Mitchell already makes it definitely not our worst nightmare. While some will say Mitchell has nothing to do with the 2017 picks we gave up, I see it as a package deal and Mitchell can't be separated out. If we'd not got Mitchell, we'd have had a first rounder from 2016 to trade with GC for O'Meara, so would likely have still had our future 2017 first rounder, so the two are inseparable for mine. Trading future picks was necessary to get both of them in the same trade period. Given we are ahead on just Mitchell even with zero future output from O'Meara, I think the verdict is already in.

 

[Pessimistic]

Mitchell yep, Jaeger has a fair way to go over a long period of time to prove he is worth the price paid.

Mate, that has no consequence. Our recruiting is planned a long way out and sometimes we pay way over.

Look at Adelaide, they got Gibbs cheaper this year but had they overpaid last year they may be premiers now

 

[Gralin]

This thread has nothing to do with our win against Collingwood. It is about giving up a bunch of speculative picks to get Mitchell and O'Meara into the club, and whether that was a sensible choice or not. Stats on draft pick success says that so far it was a no-brainer for Hawthorn, and that is without O'Meara having shown much. Right now we are comfortably ahead from a talent acquired versus picks given up point of view. If O'Meara becomes a consistently good player then we are massively ahead.

AA's is a really bad way to rate draft picks or trades.
Tom's already looking like a steal but part of that was Swans being decent at the trade table with a player that wanted out.

Jaeger last night was looking pretty zippy, a lot quicker than he looked last year which is promising