Hawthorn FC worst nightmare the 2017 Draft

Fetnarr

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In no way is it possible to build a list from the ground up simply through FA and trading, first of all, both of those routes mean you will be paying through the nose in salary cap and draft picks.

Imagine trading or going the FA route trying to put together a list of Franklin, Mitchell, Lewis, Roughead, Hodge etc, not doable and not realistic.
Everyone has said FA and trading is part of the puzzle not the be all and end all. Hawks went trade and FA route last draft and let's say they do the same again this year and land 2 more best 22 players. They then hit the draft for the next 3 years and get 2 young players per year that become best 22. That's 11 new players in 5 years plus the core that are already playing plus the young players currently on the list that are not playing. Of those 11, 5 are ready made senior footballers who don't need much developing. It can work, and writing the list off 6 months into a planned regeneration is just short sited and arrogant. You could be proved right in 5 years time or not but no one knows what is going to happen.
 

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andrewb

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Maybe I'll rephrase

You're not going to get anywhere near it with your current list

Every team in the competition is going to get better than you will in the coming off season, because they have more assets to trade and draft.

You won't have an opportunity to draft top end talent until 2018, which means you'll only start to see the smalls you draft reaching their peak in 2022 and the bigs in 2024

By 2022 who else is left? Hodge, Burgoyne, Roughead, Birchall, Gibson, Smith et al will be 32 or over. Even guys like Stratton, Frawley and Rioli will be 30+.

You'll be left with a core of guys like Shiels, Breust, Mitchell, O'Meara, Burton, Sicily surrounded by some kids. That will be a putrid list. Absolutely putrid.

You needed to hit the draft hard last year and this year but instead went the top up route while also trading out your hard earned culture.

Questions should be asked of club management. But they won't. You're all too busy thinking that Hawthorn has some special sauce that will make this process less painful than it has been for everyone else.
 
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See my signature.



It was 13 > 1 prior to the introduction of zoning.

Hawthorn only bridged the gap because the VFL decided to hand Hawthorn extra zoning concessions as they were so bad.

Hawthorn had won 1 flag and 11 spoons prior to being given these concessions. The concessions netted the Hawks 8 flags.

Once the VFL became the AFL and the zoning concessions washed out, surprise surprise Hawthorn became a basket case once again.

Then there was the draft concessions of the early-mid 00s the AFL gave Hawthorn because they were so bad. This along with the compromised drafts netted the Hawks 4 flags.

Now that the effects of the compromised drafts have washed out and the players that Hawthorn recruited with their draft concessions are either retired or cooked, surprise surprise the Hawks are once again a basket case.

Take away all these concessions that Hawthorn have received from the VFL/AFL and they are as unsuccessful as St Kilda.
Would have thought the Geelong zone was the Best in the land
Oh yes it was buckets of talent but no cigars just handbags
 
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Maybe I'll rephrase

You're not going to get anywhere near it with your current list

Every team in the competition is going to get better than you will in the coming off season, because they have more assets to trade and draft.

You won't have an opportunity to draft top end talent until 2018, which means you'll only start to see the smalls you draft reaching their peak in 2022 and the bigs in 2024

By 2022 who else is left? Hodge, Burgoyne, Roughead, Birchall, Gibson, Smith et al will be 32 or over. Even guys like Stratton, Frawley and Rioli will be 30+.

You'll be left with a core of guys like Shiels, Breust, Mitchell, O'Meara, Burton, Sicily surrounded by some kids. That will be a putrid list. Absolutely putrid.

You needed to hit the draft hard last year and this year but instead went the top up route while also trading out your hard earned culture.

Questions should be asked of club management. But they won't. You're all too busy thinking that Hawthorn has some special sauce that will make this process less painful than it has been for everyone else.
Define putrid on a scale of zero to Essendon 2016

We drafted eight players in 2015 by the way
 

Barlow#14

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Nothing worth reading there. More fun over on the port board.

Pretty funny after your melt at Lance. Any chance of addressing the post, or just more deflection as usual?
Lmao alright bud, because the two are remotely comparable, turn off notifications for this thread and steer clear because it's obvious you can't engage in normal civilised discussion about your club without getting all emotional and attacking posters and making a dill of yourself trolling players mental health conditions.
You two need a cup of concrete.
Stop having a massive whinge because someone doesnt agree with you. Its embarrassing.
 

Barlow#14

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Hawks need players in the 23-27 age group. Take hodge, Gibson, Burgoyne out of the team and our avg age is 21.

Thats way to young. Drafting 6 18 yr olds this year wont help. But brining in 2 acadamy kids and a FS along with upgrading cousins and getting a FA and a mature age prospect is a better spread of age.

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Saint

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I think the only people who don't know that Hawthorn are in a rebuild and won't be good for another 3-5 years are a handful of fans.

What I don't understand is why the coaching/football committee hasn't openly stated it, they keep saying things like 'we have a list that is capable of winning a flag'.

Nobody outside of Hawthorn thinks the current Hawthorn list is even a remote prospect of winning a flag in the next 3 years. Even if they got Fyfe (they won't, but let's say it's possible) this year on a million a year, they lose Hodge, Burgoyne, Gibson who are probably all on that combined and Hodge/Burgoyne are still amongst the best players this year.

Add another year onto the age of Smith, Breust, Roughy, Rioli, Birchall, Puopolo, the team is still on the downward trajectory, and will be until well into next year, then they've got a big mountain to climb.
 

blaisee

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I think the only people who don't know that Hawthorn are in a rebuild and won't be good for another 3-5 years are a handful of fans.

What I don't understand is why the coaching/football committee hasn't openly stated it, they keep saying things like 'we have a list that is capable of winning a flag'.

Nobody outside of Hawthorn thinks the current Hawthorn list is even a remote prospect of winning a flag in the next 3 years. Even if they got Fyfe (they won't, but let's say it's possible) this year on a million a year, they lose Hodge, Burgoyne, Gibson who are probably all on that combined and Hodge/Burgoyne are still amongst the best players this year.

Add another year onto the age of Smith, Breust, Roughy, Rioli, Birchall, Puopolo, the team is still on the downward trajectory, and will be until well into next year, then they've got a big mountain to climb.

Who is an eligible free agent player for the hawks this year, IE is Gunstan or Bruest a free agent?

This could be the strategy to get rid of a couple of free agents to get a pick in the top 5 of the draft.

Is this possible?
 

blaisee

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The other thing I don't understand is why Lewis and Mitchell were traded out for peanuts?

Why did Hawthorn allow this to occur, while at the same time Richmond got a 1st round draft pick and a 3rd round draft pick for Deledio.

Lewis and Deledio are the same age, and at the time would have had the same amount of football left in them, What happened?

It looks like a monumental balls up from Hawthorn, as they should of at least got some currency back in for 2 all time greats.

It doesn't make any sense when you compare what the tigers got for Deledio
 

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WWSD

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Who is an eligible free agent player for the hawks this year, IE is Gunstan or Bruest a free agent?

This could be the strategy to get rid of a couple of free agents to get a pick in the top 5 of the draft.

Is this possible?
No.

There's a reason why Hawthorn signed these six players up long term. They are in that middle part of their careers and are the only Hawks who are 26-28 year bracket. They are the only core players for Hawthorn.

Smith (28) contracted until the end of 2018
Gunston (25) contracted until the end of 2019
Breust (26) contracted until the end of 2021
Shiels (26) contracted until the end of 2019
Rioli (27) contracted until the end of 2020
Stratton (28) contracted until the end of 2019
 
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Barlow#14

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The other thing I don't understand is why Lewis and Mitchell were traded out for peanuts?

Why did Hawthorn allow this to occur, while at the same time Richmond got a 1st round draft pick and a 3rd round draft pick for Deledio.

Lewis and Deledio are the same age, and at the time would have had the same amount of football left in them, What happened?

It looks like a monumental balls up from Hawthorn, as they should of at least got some currency back in for 2 all time greats.

It doesn't make any sense when you compare what the tigers got for Deledio
Yeah i agree with you. But the reason was:

Hawks wanted to give back to these guys for the few years they have knocked back offers (more $$$) from rivals to stay at the club and win premerships. Accepting offers lower thrn there asking price.

They wanted to return the favor by making there exits as easy as possible.

Hawthorn most certainly wanted more for Lewis. But after the Mitchell deal thet was never going to happen.

Its an awkward situation to be in but in the end hawthorn made the right decision sticking to there word.

What are your thoughts on this blaisee?
Im really torn which way to feel.
I argued to the moon and back that hill was worth more than a high 2nd on here and he is proving so. I want a more hungry aggressive hawthorn this trade period. No more accepting unders.
 
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I think the only people who don't know that Hawthorn are in a rebuild and won't be good for another 3-5 years are a handful of fans.

What I don't understand is why the coaching/football committee hasn't openly stated it, they keep saying things like 'we have a list that is capable of winning a flag'.

Nobody outside of Hawthorn thinks the current Hawthorn list is even a remote prospect of winning a flag in the next 3 years. Even if they got Fyfe (they won't, but let's say it's possible) this year on a million a year, they lose Hodge, Burgoyne, Gibson who are probably all on that combined and Hodge/Burgoyne are still amongst the best players this year.

Add another year onto the age of Smith, Breust, Roughy, Rioli, Birchall, Puopolo, the team is still on the downward trajectory, and will be until well into next year, then they've got a big mountain to climb.
It's quite possible players get better with age btw. If not tell sydney cos buddys got five years to run on his contract
 
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Saint

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It's quite possible players get better with age btw. If not tell sydney cos buddys got five years to run on his contract
There's not a club in the competition that would sign Buddy for the next 5 years on the money he'd be on.

More likely Sydney pay part of his salary in offloading him.

If Hawthorn don't trade away one of those guys on long contracts, they're going to have to rely on bringing in free agents, but just like Sydney did with Tippett and Franklin, you have to pay overs for free agents. With Hawthorn's current ladder position unlikely to improve much, they're going to have to pay a lot over. This is where they've probably made a mistake in their recruiting strategy. They would have been assuming they might still be a destination club of choice. But they're currently ranked last of all Victorian clubs, hardly a destination any more.

So basically all they're left with is to offer more cash than their 8 Melbourne rivals who are all above them on the ladder.
 

deflated

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It's quite possible players get better with age btw. If not tell sydney cos buddys got five years to run on his contract
Buddy can decline from his lofty perch and still be a dominant, game-winning KPF. Players like Stratton and Smith are going to decline from good to mediocre.
 
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There's not a club in the competition that would sign Buddy for the next 5 years on the money he'd be on.

More likely Sydney pay part of his salary in offloading him.

If Hawthorn don't trade away one of those guys on long contracts, they're going to have to rely on bringing in free agents, but just like Sydney did with Tippett and Franklin, you have to pay overs for free agents. With Hawthorn's current ladder position unlikely to improve much, they're going to have to pay a lot over. This is where they've probably made a mistake in their recruiting strategy. They would have been assuming they might still be a destination club of choice. But they're currently ranked last of all Victorian clubs, hardly a destination any more.

So basically all they're left with is to offer more cash than their 8 Melbourne rivals who are all above them on the ladder.
Let's play ladder positions for a moment

All but two vic clubs have two wins or less than more than the Hawks. IE all but two vic clubs have a 50% or less win ratio

Long post no real point
 

Saint

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You'd be saying that about buddy if he was still a hawk be man enough to admit it
Buddy's still equal top of the goalkicking with a game in hand. Every club in the comp would have him this year and next, maybe a 3rd, but it's the 4th and 5th year that you'd be struggling to bank on a return.

AFL players aren't stupid, they can see a side on the decline vs a side on the improve. Hawthorn's percentage is appalling.
 
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Buddy's still equal top of the goalkicking with a game in hand. Every club in the comp would have him this year and next, maybe a 3rd, but it's the 4th and 5th year that you'd be struggling to bank on a return.

AFL players aren't stupid, they can see a side on the decline vs a side on the improve. Hawthorn's percentage is appalling.
Sounds like buddy was 'stupid' going to Sydney but it wasn't about success really was it?

Anyway my point was even 'older' players can improve

Quite a lot of Hawks fans thought we might have seen the best of hodge in 2010-11. Many of his peers were declining or retired already

Then 2012-2015 happened
 

Saint

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Sounds like buddy was 'stupid' going to Sydney but it wasn't about success really was it?

Anyway my point was even 'older' players can improve

Quite a lot of Hawks fans thought we might have seen the best of hodge in 2010-11. Many of his peers were declining or retired already

Then 2012-2015 happened
You're just making up your own history.

Who thought Hodge was finished at 26 years of age? The same fans who now think he's about to have a resurgent golden age?

If you're relying on 28+ yr olds to improve to be your future, you're in real trouble.
 

SA HAWK

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Hawks need players in the 23-27 age group. Take hodge, Gibson, Burgoyne out of the team and our avg age is 21.

Thats way to young. Drafting 6 18 yr olds this year wont help. But brining in 2 acadamy kids and a FS along with upgrading cousins and getting a FA and a mature age prospect is a better spread of age.

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Which team the one that played Saturday or our best 22?

That figure doesn't sound right at all.
 
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The other thing I don't understand is why Lewis and Mitchell were traded out for peanuts?

Why did Hawthorn allow this to occur, while at the same time Richmond got a 1st round draft pick and a 3rd round draft pick for Deledio.

Lewis and Deledio are the same age, and at the time would have had the same amount of football left in them, What happened?

It looks like a monumental balls up from Hawthorn, as they should of at least got some currency back in for 2 all time greats.

It doesn't make any sense when you compare what the tigers got for Deledio
Yep - that's the big stuff up. It was in part because the O'Meara trade was so drawn out that these two were fired off quickly and without us being in any sort of bargaining position. There was talk that Melbourne were going to send a young player our way as part of the Lewis trade but when the hammer came down we had nothing to press them into a higher trade.

From an onfield point of view, from a list management point of view I understand moving them on, but really disappointed in what we got back. Even 2 x 2nd rounders doesn't seem unreasonable. Maybe slow, mature players aren't worth much on the market?

With Deledio - GWS would rightly see him as a final piece to getting a flag, and they have an abundance of high draft pick talent so paying a first rounder for that benefit sounds good. Mitchell and Lewis aren't the missing piece for either club - they're cool, experienced heads in emerging teams

Dunno - just trying to make sense of it.
 
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