Hawthorn FC worst nightmare the 2017 Draft

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Not an unreasonable post. I think Henderson and Vickery were brought in

I likely think you're a smart guy and still think your long winded response in no way addresses my my point that messaging around an injury/fitness of a player over what is now half a season, which actually regularly occurs in AFL, can in ANY way be compared to the messaging of one of the biggest scandals seen in AFL which invoked multiple parties. You are not one to clutch at straws and, if anything, are one of my favourite posters for challenging silly arguments ...like the one you posted.

So colour ME surprised
oh you want the dumbed down version?

Clubs tell porkies. Supporters chug the kool aid. Hawthorn most definitely included, as we're seeing now
 

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I'd keep him out and do 9 months of core work instead

But really. Searching and posting at length hawthorns injury projections. Which are often pure fantasy. Good luck with the thesis
so would anyone with sense. Yet Hawthorn aren't saying it, even though it will probably happen like that because what's the point of playing him this year anyway. Yet every milestone passes and a new one is set up.

And laughable that you ridicule me for finding the exact information that was requested
 

threesixpio

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oh you want the dumbed down version?

Clubs tell porkies. Supporters chug the kool aid. Hawthorn most definitely included, as we're seeing now
You see the dumbed down version is likely more truthful in terms of your intentions or lack thereof.

I reckon you've got PTSD from the HTB. That looks curiously familiar in its form and content...

:p
 

Abasi

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Problem with free agency is it often costs a lot to shift a key player away from a team. Hawthorn have used free agency well but that's often because they've been able to promise premierships which isn't a thing they can do as easily as in previous years. We also know that clubs who have used free agency in American sports have a spotty record, sometimes it comes off, other times you end up paying a lot for a guy you need to perform. This also happened in Australia before drafting came along.
Hawthorns recent run of premiership contained 1 Free Agent. James Frawley.
 

Abasi

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oh sorry mate, for some reason I was unable to respond to you for a little while. My bad though.

Are you saying O'Meara isn't the club?



http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...s/news-story/7de67ba75cf35bf746c431ead0114b43

The reason for the deadline of the bye there was that it coincided exactly with the training block that he was supposedly doing.

So there's JOM himself implying he'll be back after the bye. Now how about the coach:



http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...n/news-story/d02bd3fcedc83c43383d4348292c6556

So the coach also mentions the bye. Again, not sure why he'd specifically say "the bye" if he didn't mean he'd play after the bye, but that's how weasel words work isn't it.

Then there was this from O'Meara himself as the messenger, back in April:



http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-04-17/super-cautious-hawks-set-to-regain-omeara

So there's JOM himself telling the faithful that he'll be back waaay back on Easter Monday.

Then there's Clarkson saying he'll only miss a week after the Round 3 injury.



He ended up missing 3 weeks.

So we've gone from Easter Monday.

To when the training block up to the bye is complete.

To now, sometime after the bye.

And you still think that your club is being completely honest with you and every word they say is true even though just a simple look through past statements clearly shows a pattern or implying or outright stating that he'll be back on a certain date, then moving the goalposts.

The simple fact is, footy supporters chug the kool aid. Like you and your mates are doing right now.

Good luck to the kid, hope we see him soon but I would almost put money on the fact he won't play again this year and that will be almost 3 full seasons out of the game. I may well be wrong but that's the way it looks from where I'm sitting.

Maybe the Hawks shouldn't have pushed to get him playing meaningless preseason games to placate the membership base ;)
So after all that, not one actual quote from the club saying that JOM would be back after the bye?

Not one?

You have completely failed to back up your "the club told you he'd back after the bye and you bought it!" crap.
 
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blaisee

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I never said we were relying on Academies, but this continued line of "Hawthorn have no picks and nothing to trade, so they can't do anything with their list" is pure fantasy".

Of course other clubs have access to FA and whatever else, we're not talking about other clubs though. We're talking about Hawthorn and how they can manage or change their list going forward, and despite the constant narrative in than thread otherwise, Hawthorn have as many ways as every other club.
You are the Hawthorn version of that Essendon apologist, Lance Uppercut .

You are exactly the same, the club can do no wrong, you need help man, wake up and smell the roses.
 

Jobe Watson

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Good luck to the kid, hope we see him soon but I would almost put money on the fact he won't play again this year and that will be almost 3 full seasons out of the game. I may well be wrong but that's the way it looks from where I'm sitting.
Getting this feeling too. It's not looking good is it? I don't think I've seen a club release as many "there's nothing to see here" statements regarding a player's injury as Hawthorn have with JOM this year. And every time it seems his return date gets pushed back. There comes a stage where it's probably just best to mothball him for the rest of the year.

Missing near-on 3 years of football during your prime development years would be an absolute disaster. It's a shame for him, because he genuinely looked like developing into a Brownlow Medal-winning, multi-time All-Australian quality midfielder. Going to be a massive uphill battle to get back to where he was pre-injury and give Hawthorn adequate return on investment.
 

Plugger35

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I know you can never put too much stock in anything Damien Barrett says but from what he said on TFS last night there seems to be some real fears that O'Meara's knee problems may prematurely end his career or at the least prevent him from ever getting back to his best.

Have to question Hawthorn's due diligence in assessing his fitness before trading for him, even without the benefit of hindsight it was looking a very risky trade given his injury history and the fact he hadn't played for a couple of years but now it's looking even worse.

St Kilda took a similar risk by trading for Nathan Freeman but we only gave up a future second round pick for him so if it doesn't work out it hasn't cost us as badly as what the O'Meara trade will cost the Hawks if he never comes good.
 

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Abasi

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You are the Hawthorn version of that Essendon apologist, Lance Uppercut .

You are exactly the same, the club can do no wrong, you need help man, wake up and smell the roses.
And you're the dill who claimed Shane Edwards was a better player than Cyril Rioli.

You don't get to judge people.
 
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So nothing to back up any of your posturing? Not a thing?
only the coach and O'Meara himself both strongly insinuating it. Yes possibly they didn't say it verbatim, but I just provided an interview where O'Meara talks about coming back after the training block that is aimed to wrap up by bye weekend, and the coach directly referencing the bye in talking about when he'll be back. All of which you managed to miss in your provided cherry picked quote.

And yet here's you jumping up and down like you've won the internet war - and it only proves my point for me! That being that you will slurp down the kool aid and deny deny deny that the club are being anything other than completely open and honest.

Any non-biased observer can see that Hawthorn pushed a message that O'Meara would be back after the bye round. Do you think the article's opening line: HAWTHORN’S high-priced recruit Jaeger O’Meara has declared he will be fit to play after the club’s bye in three weeks was just a misunderstanding by the journalist??

And any non-biased observer can see the pattern of Hawthorn saying he'll be back, then when he's not just moving the goal posts again. O'Meara was wheeled out to sell it. Clarkson said it in a slightly different way.

It's hard to even understand what your overall point is. Do you think the club are being completely honest? Do you think they are not subtly lowering expectations constantly after every milestone passes? Or are you just 100% buying in to each message that comes out as gospel truth?

If you don't want to answer those just answer me one question. Do you, Abasi, think that O'Meara will play again this year?
 

blaisee

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And you're the dill who claimed Shane Edwards was a better player than Cyril Rioli.

You don't get to judge people.
Um, that is not what I said at all.

What I said was that AFL coaches think Shane Edwards is a better footballer than Cyril Rioli, and when I said it, it was true.

Now back to the point, why are you so scared of Hawthorn actually making mistakes?

Do you realise how silly and delusional you sound?
 

Abasi

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only the coach and O'Meara himself both strongly insinuating it. Yes possibly they didn't say it verbatim, but I just provided an interview where O'Meara talks about coming back after the training block that is aimed to wrap up by bye weekend, and the coach directly referencing the bye in talking about when he'll be back.

All of which you managed to miss in your provided cherry picked quote. And here's you jumping up and down like you've won the internet war - and it only proves my point for me. That being that you will slurp down their weasel words and deny deny deny that the club are being anything other than completely open and honest.

Any non-biased observer can see that Hawthorn pushed a message that O'Meara would be back after the by round; and any non-biased observer can see the pattern of Hawthorn saying he'll be back, then when he's not just moving the goal posts again. O'Meara was wheeled out to sell it. Clarkson said it in a slightly different way.

It's hard to even understand what your overall point is. Do you think the club are being completely honest? Do you think they are not subtly lowering expectations constantly after every milestone passes? Or are you just 100% buying in to each message that comes out as gospel truth?

If you don't want to answer those just answer me one question. Do you, Abasi, think that O'Meara will play again this year?
So we've gone from "the club told you he'd back back after the bye and you bought it, you kool-aid guzzler!" to "it was insinuated" because you couldn't back it up with anything despite being asked numerous times to present a quote?

Why would I bother answering any of your queries when you won't even do the honest thing and admit you were wrong to say the club ever mentioned that JOM would be back after the bye?

Just admit that you ran with it after reading the Hawk board.
 

Abasi

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Um, that is not what I said at all.

What I said was that AFL coaches think Shane Edwards is a better footballer than Cyril Rioli, and when I said it, it was true.

Now back to the point, why are you so scared of Hawthorn actually making mistakes?

Do you realise how silly and delusional you sound?
I'm delusional because I don't agree with your wishful thinking of how bad Hawthorn are/were/going to be.

Whatevs.
 

Richo83

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the draft is a lottery
It is and it isn't, it's getting more exact as a science.

Melbourne Saints Blues GCS are full of lots and lots and lots of early picks and arent reallygreat role models for how to build successful teams
That's like saying African nations have lots and lots of resources and often get given aid, but look at them, basket cases! It's not the asset that's the issue, it's the fact that it's being squandered. But if you take away that asset, those clubs would be much poorer.

GWS obviously is too and have a system in place that will keep them topped up for decades.
So draft picks are handy!

You cant beat that by trying to copy it, because they will win every single time because of the advantages they got given,they have been set up to win.
Everyone else is set up to fail (except Sydney and their academy too)
To beat them you need a plan B and luck
So GWS use draft picks to their advantage, so why not try? They also have used free agency and trading quite successfully as well, so no trading or recruiting either?

The teams that are going to challenge GWS for the flag this year have very few early picks
Footscray won with high picks. I think arguing that because teams haven't relied purely on early draft picks, that proves that draft picks aren't that important is silly. Like any organisation, it requires the good utilisation of assets and a strong foundation setup to work.
 

Saint

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the draft is a lottery
Melbourne Saints Blues GCS are full of lots and lots and lots of early picks and arent reallygreat role models for how to build successful teams
GWS obviously is too and have a system in place that will keep them topped up for decades.
You cant beat that by trying to copy it, because they will win every single time because of the advantages they got given,they have been set up to win.
Everyone else is set up to fail (except Sydney and their academy too)
To beat them you need a plan B and luck

The teams that are going to challenge GWS for the flag this year have very few early picks
'The draft is a lottery'

This is a daft statement. There are risks with anything, but on balance, having higher draft picks usually results in better outcomes. Otherwise why does every club in the competition try to trade for higher draft picks?

Was it just coincidence that Roughy, Franklin, Hodge, Rioli and Lewis were stars and happened to be early picks? Burgoyne was traded for what....draft pick 9. Besides Mitchell and Gibson that's pretty much the core of Hawthorn's threepeat all taken with first round draft picks. Mitchell, O'Meara and Gunston all cost first round picks in trades as well.

(Of course there are draft failures and Hawthorn have their share, but the flags were built on successful drafts)

Even if Hawthorn's plan is to trade away high draft picks every single season, AFL rules say they're not allowed to.

So they've just got Free Agency where they are offering cash just like every other club in the AFL, but now from 2nd bottom on the ladder. That'll work well.
 
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So we've gone from "the club told you he'd back back after the bye and you bought it, you kool-aid guzzler!" to "it was insinuated" because you couldn't back it up with anything despite being asked numerous times to present a quote?

Why would I bother answering any of your queries when you won't even do the honest thing and admit you were wrong to say the club ever mentioned that JOM would be back after the bye?

Just admit that you ran with it after reading the Hawk board.
HAWTHORN’S high-priced recruit Jaeger O’Meara has declared he will be fit to play after the club’s bye in three weeks.
 

SA HAWK

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As mentioned. Used two early round draft picks in 2015
One of the picks used for Mitchell was a compo pick from losing hill

Appreciate all your points. But it's not as if Hawks list planning woke up and panicked in October 2016
We used pick 14 on Mitchell the pick we got for Hill was 23 which we bundled with 36 & this years 1st round pick for St Kilda's pick 10 in last years draft.
 

doppleganger

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Lewis and Mitchell have been pretty average for their new clubs this year and only going to decline from here...

Them staying may have made Hawks' fall less severe, but ultimately they were always in for a big fall.
Mitchell would be top5 in West Coast BnF.

The 3 games Lewis missed due to his suspension the Dees went 0-3, QBDay his only poor game really.

Both Melbourne and WCE would be extremely happy with their output to date...especially considering they gave up nothing for them.
 
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