Toast Hawthorn have headf***ed everyone

[Smooth Banana]

25,000 is far more than get polled for elections. So it must be legit !

If it suits us, it's legit. Otherwise polls are rubbish, you know how it works. I must say 25k ain't too bad, just goes to show ya the Hawks are second to none.

 

[Randy Campbell]

It's fair to say 100 people, or a 1000, is not an accurate poll given how many people follow footy. Here is an example of a respectable poll, check it out...

View attachment 333995

25000 votes, that's better don't you think?

*No, I am not ashamed to pick and choose stats or polls to suit my agenda.

Let the #headfuking continue.

I thought Brisbane won three Premierships in the 2000. They should at least be third.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I thought Brisbane won three Premierships in the 2000. They should at least be third.

They have done absolutely nothing since 2004. Since 2000 encompasses 17 seasons - of which the Lions have only qualified for the finals 6 times. They could maybe replace Collingwood - but their record isn't stellar.

 

[Randy Campbell]

They have done absolutely nothing since 2004. Since 2000 encompasses 17 seasons - of which the Lions have only qualified for the finals 6 times. They could maybe replace Collingwood - but their record isn't stellar.

Why do we play football? To win premierships.

Sydney and Geelong have both won more games than us but 4 Premierships puts us number one.
How does winning 2 or 1 count more than 3 because they have won more games?

 

[Gralin]

Why do we play football? To win premierships.

Sydney and Geelong have both won more games than us but 4 Premierships puts us number one.
How does winning 2 or 1 count more than 3 because they have won more games?

it doesn't
Hawks with 4
Geelong and Brisbane both with 3, geelong fans argue more H&A wins and longevity, lions fans argue threpeat
Swans with 2

 

[cryptor]

it doesn't
Hawks with 4
Geelong and Brisbane both with 3, geelong fans argue more H&A wins and longevity, lions fans argue threpeat
Swans with 2

And Geelong won their 07 and 09 flags in an objectively weak period. I've made this argument to them before but it's not even a troll.

The Squiggle supports it and I think we all know intuitively that our 08 side doesn't come close to our 12-15 sides. Yet our 08 side despite being very young and inexperienced (except for a few old blokes who were well past their peaks) was able to consistently win all season, smashed our QF and PF opponents, before comfortably beating Geelong's statistically best performing team ever.

Hawthorn was still well into the process of rebuilding in 2008 along with about a dozen other sides. Excluding Geelong, the remaining few sides were well over their peak and on the slide.

 

[Gralin]

And Geelong won their 07 and 09 flags in an objectively weak period. I've made this argument to them before but it's not even a troll.

The Squiggle supports it and I think we all know intuitively that our 08 side doesn't come close to our 12-15 sides. Yet our 08 side despite being very young and inexperienced (except for a few old blokes who were well past their peaks) was able to consistently win all season, smashed our QF and PF opponents, before comfortably beating Geelong's statistically best performing team ever.

Hawthorn was still well into the process of rebuilding in 2008 along with about a dozen other sides. Excluding Geelong, the remaining few sides were well over their peak and on the slide.

I know what you're saying but you can only beat your competition at the time.
Cats still did it 3 times, good for them.

Hawks flags are all sweet, not all the same but all achievements

BF loves to compare wins eras etc, I'm just glad I've seen as many as I have and that the club isn't basking in past success even though we as supporters can.
I'm looking for the next one now

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Why do we play football? To win premierships.

Sydney and Geelong have both won more games than us but 4 Premierships puts us number one.
How does winning 2 or 1 count more than 3 because they have won more games?

I would rather any side that I supported having Sydney's record from 2000-16 than Brisbane's. The additional flag is cold comfort when your club is now an absolute shambles, has the worst facilities in the league and will probably be 3-5 years away from being close to competitive again.

Where Brisbane is now both in a football sense and a commercial sense pretty much disqualifies them from being named one of the best teams of the 2000s - no matter how good they were 01-04. Too much time has passed now.

 

[cryptor]

I know what you're saying but you can only beat your competition at the time.
Cats still did it 3 times, good for them.

Hawks flags are all sweet, not all the same but all achievements

BF loves to compare wins eras etc, I'm just glad I've seen as many as I have and that the club isn't basking in past success even though we as supporters can.
I'm looking for the next one now

Totally agree, you can only beat the comp at the time. And a premiership is a premiership. But if people want to go about comparing years/eras (and if BigFooty is any indication then they do) a lot of consideration needs to be for relative strength of the competition.

It's one of the big reasons why 14 and 15 are so loved by us all. There was genuine depth to the comp with teams outside the top 4 progressing deeper into finals than had been typical in earlier years. For the Hawks to progress through to the GF before ruthlessly destroying opponents who were expected to win comfortably made it all the sweeter. Geelong were running in a one horse race in 07 so the result they got was about par.

 

[Gralin]

Totally agree, you can only beat the comp at the time. And a premiership is a premiership. But if people want to go about comparing years/eras (and if BigFooty is any indication then they do) a lot of consideration needs to be for relative strength of the competition.

It's one of the big reasons why 14 and 15 are so loved by us all. There was genuine depth to the comp with teams outside the top 4 progressing deeper into finals than had been typical in earlier years. For the Hawks to progress through to the GF before ruthlessly destroying opponents who were expected to win comfortably made it all the sweeter. Geelong were running in a one horse race in 07 so the result they got was about par.

But but expansion clubs and home ground advantage

 

[Ned Ryerson]

But but expansion clubs and home ground advantage

And 'if Freo kicked straight'.

 

[Kil Phearns]

Even in that one-horse race of a season that was 2007, Geelong very nearly blew the PF against a Collingwood side that had finished sixth, and were coming off an extra time win over WCE in Perth...

 

[cryptor]

Even in that one-horse race of a season that was 2007, Geelong very nearly blew the PF against a Collingwood side that had finished sixth, and were coming off an extra time win over WCE in Perth...

It's funny how Geelong supporters like to point to our close PF wins as evidence of how "lucky" we were yet conveniently forget about that 07 PF. Particularly when they try to use the 07 GF to make a case for that side being the best ever.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

And Geelong won their 07 and 09 flags in an objectively weak period. I've made this argument to them before but it's not even a troll.

The Squiggle supports it and I think we all know intuitively that our 08 side doesn't come close to our 12-15 sides. Yet our 08 side despite being very young and inexperienced (except for a few old blokes who were well past their peaks) was able to consistently win all season, smashed our QF and PF opponents, before comfortably beating Geelong's statistically best performing team ever.

Hawthorn was still well into the process of rebuilding in 2008 along with about a dozen other sides. Excluding Geelong, the remaining few sides were well over their peak and on the slide.

It was a very weak period.

Consider Geelong’s 2009 opponents lost two games for the (H&A) season by a combined total of 7 points. That Grand Final St Kilda team had:

- Andrew McQualter
- Raph Clarke
- Jason Blake
- Kossy
- Farren Ray
- Steven Baker
- Clint Jones
- Zac Dawson

And two washed-up ruckmen in Michael Gardiner and Steven King.

If you look at every Grand Final team since this date you would be extremely hard pressed to find spots for any of these above named players, let alone fit all of them in to a side.

 

[eldorado]

And 'if Freo kicked straight'.

but but but...the other team didn't turn up

 

[Gralin]

but but but...the other team didn't turn up

Obviously part of the AFLs Victorian bias, they told those inferior interstate teams the wrong time to guarantee further proof that the VFL was better

 

[cryptor]

It was a very weak period.

Consider Geelong’s 2009 opponents lost two games for the (H&A) season by a combined total of 7 points. That Grand Final St Kilda team had:

- Andrew McQualter
- Raph Clarke
- Jason Blake
- Kossy
- Farren Ray
- Steven Baker
- Clint Jones
- Zac Dawson

And two washed-up ruckmen in Michael Gardiner and Steven King.

If you look at every Grand Final team since this date you would be extremely hard pressed to find spots for any of these above named players, let alone fit all of them in to a side.

They were very lucky to have won the 09 GF too.

 

[Kil Phearns]

They were very lucky to have won the 09 GF too.

Scarlett's toe poke was one of the five greatest moments of the 00s, don't you know...

 

[TallyHawk]

Why do we play football? To win premierships.

Sydney and Geelong have both won more games than us but 4 Premierships puts us number one.
How does winning 2 or 1 count more than 3 because they have won more games?

There is a Saints supporter who has done the sums from trade week and has come to the conclusion that even if Hawthorn win the 2017 flag the Saints still come out on top with draft points. Different ways of measuring success I suppose.


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[TallyHawk]

There is a Saints supporter who has done the sums from trade week and has come to the conclusion that even if Hawthorn win the 2017 flag the Saints still come out on top with draft points. Different ways of measuring success I suppose.


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

Here it is
If Hawks win 2017 flag, Saints win trade by 848 points (equivalent of pick 22 for free).

If Hawks finish fifth in 2017, as they did this year, Saints win trade by 1024 points (equivalent of pick 17).

If Hawks get 2017 wooden spoon, Saints win trade by 2863 points (equivalent of pick 1-2).


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[moginie]

Here it is
If Hawks win 2017 flag, Saints win trade by 848 points (equivalent of pick 22 for free).

If Hawks finish fifth in 2017, as they did this year, Saints win trade by 1024 points (equivalent of pick 17).

If Hawks get 2017 wooden spoon, Saints win trade by 2863 points (equivalent of pick 1-2).


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

Well, it's good that they are celebrating winning the trade, because they sure as hell don't win premierships.

 

[cryptor]

Here it is
If Hawks win 2017 flag, Saints win trade by 848 points (equivalent of pick 22 for free).

If Hawks finish fifth in 2017, as they did this year, Saints win trade by 1024 points (equivalent of pick 17).

If Hawks get 2017 wooden spoon, Saints win trade by 2863 points (equivalent of pick 1-2).


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

Except the "points" aren't worth squat unless you're picking up an academy or FS pick.

When the comp underestimated the value of draft picks we robbed Fremantle and it landed us the picks used to get Hodge and Mitchell.

Then when the comp overestimated the value of draft picks it allowed us to secure all the traded talent that led to this current era.

Now seemingly most of the comp is (if not at least their supporters) mistakenly accepting these artificial and fairly arbitrary values as gospel. Can't help but feel based on history that Hawthorn are about to make off like bandits.

 

[Gralin]

Except the "points" aren't worth squat unless you're picking up an academy or FS pick.

When the comp underestimated the value of draft picks we robbed Fremantle and it landed us the picks used to get Hodge and Mitchell.

Then when the comp overestimated the value of draft picks it allowed us to secure all the traded talent that led to this current era.

Now seemingly most of the comp is (if not at least their supporters) mistakenly accepting these artificial and fairly arbitrary values as gospel. Can't help but feel based on history that Hawthorn are about to make off like bandits.

Draft point are like DT and supercoach they give last people an easy yard stick.

 

[Sixpence]

Well, it's good that they are celebrating winning the trade, because they sure as hell don't win premierships.

I'd argue the 2001 trade period won us a few Premierships!

 

[Wandering Hawk]

There's also the discount for time value. How much is a future pick worth compared to the same number pick now?

Eg if you swap this year pick 1 for next year's pick 1 you've surely lost value in most people's judgement (except perhaps in an awesome future draft). Yet sometimes there's a difference in utility, eg a team with a full list or cap wouldn't mind so much, or a team with their eye on a specific position or timing - if you've got an awesome 26yo forward you'd rather draft your next awesome forward to replace him in about 2 years, not now, so that the kid is ready when he's 31 and doesn't walk because he can't get a game.

The nature of any currency is that it fluctuates in individual utility against every good. Hence trade. The measure of received value on a trade is the individual utility gained, nothing else.

I can swap a 2 L bottle of coke for a 600ml bottle of coke because it's easier to carry and I'm not that thirsty and be very happy with the trade for utility gained. The guy telling me that I'm dumb for giving up net coke hasn't understood that the value of coke to me is solely derived from its utility at the time- just as spare draft picks when your list is full are worthless to you, but very useful to a club upgrading a rookie.