News Hawthorn Racism Review - No player name speculation - opposition posters tread very carefully

[Strapping Young Lad]

Wrong. Hawks did what they had to do by the rules of the AFL.

Correct. For reference below, once the HFC had the report outlining serious allegations they were duty bound by the AFL’s protocol to hand over the report to the AFL integrity unit.

I will pin this post, as it seems to be a constant query.

 

[brad sue well]

Again with the "our truths"

Correct, google Truth Telling. Capital TT.

 

[SammyC]

If we engaged the cousin of a potential complainant to conduct the work we deserve what’s coming. That’s mindblowingly bad.

Equally Binmada and Egan should have declined the work. Reflects just as badly on them.

 

[brad sue well]

They were isolated from their families - they were bloody recruited to a metropolitan club. They chose that.

Missing the point, nothing to do with geography. Read the Egan report for insight.

 

[hamohawk1]

Hypothetically:
1. AFL imposes a financial fine/ draft picks for 'bringing the game into disrepute';
2. Clarkson, Fagan and Burt have adverse findings given to them from the human rights appeal, as well as HFC.

Should 2 occur, it would be an awful outcome for the AFL and would surely lead to backlash from former/ current indigenous and the wider AFL public for trying to run the optics all was 'clear' from their organisation or HFC were the issue.

F*ck this could get so bloody messy for all involved...

 

[Brishawk]

Cousins. It might have been touched on in Caroline Wilson’s article with him last year.

Well that is terrible governance by us. What were we thinking?

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Well that is terrible governance by us. What were we thinking?

Devil’s advocate for the club it might have been a stated conflict however possibly they are distant cousins with little connection. I have dozens of first cousins on one side of my family I’ve never met and wouldn’t be at all prejudiced if I were investigating them.

 

[hawkinoz]

The players statement today confirms to me the belief that Hawthorn underestimated what would be declared when they attempted to find justification for the Rioli’s claims and the players involved really just wanted to then be heard.

Does the leak of issues for Jackson to follow up happen if the players have faith that the Hawthorn report won’t get sat on during finals?

This all seems to have blown up because they felt the whole way that their issues would never be addressed.

I can’t help but think this entire mess gets handled in an instant if the AFL had any integrity in their integrity dept, and I’m amazed how more people don’t question how the AFL mishandled this and did nothing for 8 months.

When hawks took it to AFL, all they needed to do was say - listen to these people. Don't involve us other than to request access to the accused.

Also HFC should have prepared for this. As they say, don't go asking questions if you are not ready for the answers. Clearly some of these answers could have been guessed. They should have talked to AFL first and asked them to run this or advance permission to deal as HFC saw fit. Where it gets murky is if current HFC is implicated.

 

[Brishawk]

If we engaged the cousin of a potential complainant to conduct the work we deserve what’s coming. That’s mindblowingly bad.

Equally Binmada and Egan should have declined the work. Reflects just as badly on them.

It’s s**t all around. No wonder reeves got the flick.

 

[Nastyfish]

 

[Nastyfish]

 

[Brishawk]

Devil’s advocate for the club it might have been a stated conflict however possibly they are distant cousins with little connection. I have dozens of first cousins on one side of my family I’ve never met and woudont be at all prejudiced if I were investigating them.

Even if Phil declared it wasn’t a real conflict of interest, it’s 100% going to be perceived as a conflict of interest. That is usually sufficient to exclude someone from a decision in every workplace I have operated in.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Even if Phil declared it wasn’t a real conflict of interest, it’s 100% going to be perceived as a conflict of interest. That is usually sufficient to exclude someone from a decision in every workplace I have operated in.

Definitely not ideal I agree. Possibly there were guardrails in place though - maybe someone external to Egan’s firm did the interviews with Leon to avoid any conflict.

 

[Sixpence]

Even if Phil declared it wasn’t a real conflict of interest, it’s 100% going to be perceived as a conflict of interest. That is usually sufficient to exclude someone from a decision in every workplace I have operated in.

He hasn't been involved in any particular decisions though, just wrote a report.

 

[brad sue well]

It’s not clear at all that I think players are just pawns. I could just as careless say it’s clear you just think a football club is actually a counselling service and there is zero point in arguing this any further with you. Perhaps the fact that you think this is an argument rather than a discussion is the issue.

Regardless, the purpose of a footy club is to win games. The purpose of players at the club is to be winners. Those goals are in alignment, not conflict, and it is from that perspective that I write what I write. If those goals aren’t in alignment for any reason, it’s obviously not in the interest of either party to joint together. It’s take a whole lot of time, money and commitment to make a club successful. Getting that right is worth a lot of effort on everyone’s part.

Our positions aren’t inconsistent at all. The only difference is that I am not losing sight of the fact that the primary purpose of a footy club is to win footy games. That doesn’t mean win at any cost (I would not advocate sacrificing goats on a game day morning, for example) so don’t try to misread my comments in order to “argue” instead of discuss.

If players are happy they tend to play well but they aren't robots to winning. Personal, family, wider club, on field team all have different goals and values and they will never line up. Players come with an incredible history and they channel it all into trying to win but they can't leave turn some bits on and off is how I see it. AFLPA made an app for players that is all about these values and how in a sense they are to be managed.

 

[thehardway]

Gloves are now off on both sides. So off to the HRC they go. Not a bad thing IMO but the organisation is overworked and under funded and this could drag on for years. I just want to watch the Hawks play footy.

 

[daniel23]

I'm confused

 

[derp de derp]

Storm in a teacup


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Rob R]

OK, but for those of us that follow this from afar, it would be great if we actually knew what they wanted?

As in - what changes do you want?

If a goal is set, it makes it easier to try to reach it,yes?

What do the other 6 people who aren't in this letter want? Two of them were outed in Burts letter, plus most people know who the other 4 are.

What do they want?

It just seems that too many people want too many different things, or aren't clear what their ultimate aims are, in terms of improvements.

It also seems SAR is absolutely the one driving this forward.

Anyone know more about Jermaine and Montanah Miller-Lewis? I don't know the names?

All I can find on Google is that he was drafted, didn't make it, and was now an artist and dancer.

Plus he gifted Hawthorn some of his art in 2016

Bit of a juxtaposition really.

Life focus bigger than football right now for Miller-Lewis

JERMAINE Miller-Lewis dreamed of playing AFL football with Hawthorn so being drafted and spending the last two years at the Hawks was something he will always cherish, but when he found himself back home in 2017 he took the brave choice to take a step back and decide what made him happy...

www.sffc.com.au

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[BobHawk]

I'd say Clarko is fkd. Cyril wants to give him both barrels. You can run, but you can't hide.

And we are gutted that these so-called AFL role models weren’t prepared to listen to our truths through mediation. We have always had the courage to listen to their truths too. That is our way.

I think this bit from the letter pretty much confirms that they went into mediation in good faith until the accused trio decided to blow it up with the letter from Fagan's legal team. It is an incredible tactic to use when one considers it was an opportunity, not just to end the matter, but for Fagan, Clarkson and Burt to front up and listen to their former players concerns (which IMO, they should have done from the get-go).

 

[brad sue well]

Egan was employed to help protect the welfare of our indigenous players. Obviously he feels the club didn’t enable him to do that successfully.

Leon Egan was the IPDM at the time. The one frozen out of doing his job. Why did they employ him then?

‘They were too busy winning’: Former Hawks Indigenous manager says club must face its past

Leon Egan believes Hawthorn are genuinely trying to make changes, but he said the club in the past had dealt with Indigenous issues in a “tokenistic” fashion.

www.theage.com.au

‘We were watching those blokes break’: The Hawthorn women who would not stay silent

The prevailing view at Hawthorn is that a small group of women have led the decision to make public the allegations that could radically reshape football’s landscape.

www.theage.com.au

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I seem to recall that there was someone on the coaching staff that was allegedly willing to corroborate on some of the accusations, claiming they were present. Did any more ever come of that? Not asking for names but just wondering if it was legitimate.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

"will now bring them to a Human Rights Commission conciliation to listen to the truths that they don't want to hear."

So thats why you want to take Hawthorn to court, but it's not about money? Just be honest about it.

There tarnishing the club too not just the members involved. This is what is frustrating me. The club is doing all it can presently to be as welcoming to First nations people than it ever has in its history. Their gripe is with 3-4 specific individuals. What there effectively saying here is that even Sam Mitchell and Luke Hodge for eg have something to answer for by not doing enough to stop it. Seeing as they were the main onfield leaders at the time. The Hawthorn Football club did not provide the unstable work environment. Clarko, Fagan and Burt did who were employed by the club. Now if your argument is the Hawthorn Football club ignored the problems if they were made aware of them than that's a different story but that's not what is being said here. All very sad it's come to this.

 

[NewkTheLot]

He hasn't been involved in any particular decisions though, just wrote a report.

He’s advising the complainants right now

 

[Ned Ryerson]

There tarnishing the club too not just the members involved. This is what is frustrating me. The club is doing all it can presently to be as welcoming to First nations people than it ever has in its history. Their gripe is with 3-4 specific individuals. What there effectively saying here is that even Sam Mitchell and Luke Hodge for eg have something to answer for by not doing enough to stop it. Seeing as they were the main onfield leaders at the time. The Hawthorn Football club did not provide the unstable work environment. Clarko, Fagan and Burt did who were employed by the club. Now if your argument is the Hawthorn Football club ignored the problems if they were made aware of them than that's a different story but that's not what is being said here. All very sad it's come to this.

The organisation always gets the blame though - they are the ones responsible for their employee’s conduct. This is true of any scandal. It’s why CEOs often step down in corporate scandals despite the issue at hand being something the CEO could never possibly have known about let alone condoned.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I seem to recall that there was someone on the coaching staff that was allegedly willing to corroborate on some of the accusations, claiming they were present. Did any more ever come of that? Not asking for names but just wondering if it was legitimate.

Yes. An unnamed assistant.