NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed. Part 2

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Wosh

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Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread.
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Videos, statements etc in the OP here:



Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

Process Plan - https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/do...erms-of-Reference-and-Process-Plan-FINAL-.pdf
 
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Osho

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I'm suggesting that specifically Kennett was involved in the leaking of the report.
I understood your suggestion was that SOMEONE at Hawks leaked the report to spite Alistair, however, Kennett doing so could easily blow up in his own face. I was thinking someone else with no link to the Aborigine players' scandal.
 

sr36

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One of multiple reasons.
I'm struggling to see him throwing the whole club under the bus. Hawks were bloody lucky that Jackson chose to name the coaches, otherwise it wouldn't have been Clarkson it would have been Hawthorn.
 

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blackshadow

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Literally no one has played down the seriousness of the allegations

Exactly.

I’ve definitely questioned the credibility of the Jackson article because quite frankly it’s highly questionable.

I believe he printed what he was told but he did absolutely nothing to frame the context of the allegations. It was a lazy article designed to create headlines and his shoddy handling has now meant that the complainants have been put under the spotlight when they don’t want to be.

A competent journalist wouldn’t have handled it that way.
 

SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay

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Egan hasn’t made any claims, he conducted interviews and compiled a report at the request of the HFC.

Fair point, but it is also a bit more nuanced.

Egan actually places himself in the report as a key player.

He says people spoke to him due to the "profile and respect" he has in the community.

He talks about using yarning where the researcher is an active participant in driving the discussion.

You're framing this as a very clean and legalistic procedure, that you'd get had Hawthorn hired a big 4 firm to do it.

It wasn't that at all, it was a very different process. Egan says it was culturally safe and that's how he got revelations that some 29 year old working for KPMG probably wouldn't.

But Amy's lawyer also says she now has concerns about its cultural safety.

It's hugely nuanced and complex.
 

Jim Prideaux

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Fair point, but it is also a bit more nuanced.

Egan actually places himself in the report as a key player.

He says people spoke to him due to the "profile and respect" he has in the community.

He talks about using yarning where the researcher is an active participant in driving the discussion.

You're framing this as a very clean and legalistic procedure, that you'd get had Hawthorn hired a big 4 firm to do it.

It wasn't that at all, it was a very different process. Egan says it was culturally safe and that's how he got revelations that some 29 year old working for KPMG probably wouldn't.

But Amy's lawyer also says she now has concerns about its cultural safety.

It's hugely nuanced and complex.
I’m not framing it as anything. It’s a report, made at the request of the HFC.

Bolded- probably why they hired him?
 

SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay

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I’m not framing it as anything. It’s a report, made at the request of the HFC.

Bolded- probably why they hired him?

Given he's related to one of the most important people in the whole thing, Leon Egan, that they hired him at all is mind boggling.

But given his involvement in the interviewing, its not just a report made at the request of the HFC per se, it is something else altogether.
 

Jim Prideaux

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Given he's related to one of the most important people in the whole thing, Leon Egan, that they hired him at all is mind boggling.

But given his involvement in the interviewing, its not just a report made at the request of the HFC per se, it is something else altogether.
1st para - not really.

2nd - it really is just a report that the HFC commissioned. That you want it to be something more doesn’t make it so.
 

Laphroaig

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Exactly.

I’ve definitely questioned the credibility of the Jackson article because quite frankly it’s highly questionable.

What you are told and how you tell it are amazingly versatile things.

Let us not forget that this is the same journalist that reported as an unquestionable fact that Robert Muir was driven to violence by being abused and spat on in the race at Vic Park.

Like every other non Collingwood player that ever played there.

Just forget about the fact that his violent alcoholic father beat the piss out of him on a daily basis and provided him with permanent internal injuries; that had nothing at all with him becoming the most feared footballer ever to play the the game, and a violent alcoholic thug afterwards - who by his own admission was lucky to not end up in jail.

NO NO NO. Muir became a thug because of racism. There can be no other possible cause.
 

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Albert Collier

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What you are told and how you tell it are amazingly versatile things.

Let us not forget that this is the same journalist that reported as an unquestionable fact that Robert Muir was driven to violence by being abused and spat on in the race at Vic Park.

Like every other non Collingwood player that ever played there.

Just forget about the fact that his violent alcoholic father beat the piss out of him on a daily basis and provided him with permanent internal injuries; that had nothing at all with him becoming the most feared footballer ever to play the the game, and a violent alcoholic thug afterwards - who by his own admission was lucky to not end up in jail.

NO NO NO. Muir became a thug because of racism. There can be no other possible cause.

You seriously have no idea.
 

SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay

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What you are told and how you tell it are amazingly versatile things.

Let us not forget that this is the same journalist that reported as an unquestionable fact that Robert Muir was driven to violence by being abused and spat on in the race at Vic Park.

Like every other non Collingwood player that ever played there.

Just forget about the fact that his violent alcoholic father beat the piss out of him on a daily basis and provided him with permanent internal injuries; that had nothing at all with him becoming the most feared footballer ever to play the the game, and a violent alcoholic thug afterwards - who by his own admission was lucky to not end up in jail.

NO NO NO. Muir became a thug because of racism. There can be no other possible cause.

Jackson covered in detail the direct racism from umpires that Muir experienced in Ballarat among many other things.

That kind of historical feature he's brilliant at.

Poor post.
 

Laphroaig

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Jackson covered in detail the direct racism from umpires that Muir experienced in Ballarat among many other things.

That kind of historical feature he's brilliant at.

Poor post.
I was a kid at the footy in Ballarat at that time. Also a young adult at the footy in Melbourne after that, often attending St Kilda games with a mate who supported them. How about you?

It certainly takes a perverse talent to be able to heap so much extra mayo on a "reinterpretation" of events by the central figure in those events that the original can barely even be seen anymore, but it aint brilliant.

This brilliant article not only managed to brush aside a childhood spent in extreme violence as a likely primary cause to being an out of control perpetrator of violence, it also managed to inform us that Muir was known as Mad Dog because he ran around a lot.

As someone who was there, I can inform you that it was not the running around. It was the stopping for long enough to belt someone before running off to the next one and belting them.

I can also inform you that the stuff that Muir got caught for, either on camera or by the umps, was the tip of the iceberg. He was the nastiest player in the nastiest team the game has ever seen. Rebadging him as a victim is self serving rubbish.
 
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sr36

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I was a kid at the footy in Ballarat at that time. Also a young adult at the footy in Melbourne after that, often attending St Kilda games with a mate who supported them. How about you?

It certainly takes a perverse talent to be able to heap so much extra mayo on a "reinterpretation" of events by the central figure in those events that the original can barely even be seen anymore, but it aint brilliant.

This brilliant article not only managed to brush aside a childhood spent in extreme violence as a likely primary cause to being an out of control perpetrator of violence, it also managed to inform us that Muir was known as Mad Dog because he ran around a lot.

As someone who was there, I can inform you that it was not the running around. It was the stopping for long enough to belt someone before running off to the next one and belting them.

I can also inform you that the stuff that Muir got caught for, either on camera or by the umps, was the tip of the iceberg. He was the nastiest player in the nastiest team the game has ever seen. Rebadging him as a victim is self serving rubbish.
Robbie was a victim, but you're right the balance between whether that was at the hands of his father versus racism within the VFL is likely distorted by Jackson. However, there's also no doubt that the racism in the VFL was outrageous and did play a part.
 

Chief

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Yeah I'm just trying to find out what Amy's words are. Could be simple as Egan using the wrong name for something or title for a person, all the way through to him trying to convert her to Veganism.
 

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