NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed. Part 2

[Wosh]

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Videos, statements etc in the OP here:

NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

Process Plan - https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/do...erms-of-Reference-and-Process-Plan-FINAL-.pdf


DO NOT QUOTE THREADS FROM OTHER BOARDS

 

[Chief]

I did not expect to see this campaigners rude mug in this thread

He is a hero of the people's revolution, comrade!

 

[sickmick92]

Chief how do you like your eggs? I'm tipping you're an over-easy man

 

[Maddo11]

Chief how do you like your eggs? I'm tipping you're an over-easy man

Laid by Hens that only have one wing, the left wing

 

[Dangerousfield]

Looking forward to this inquiry, as promised, being all over by Xmas. Good work AFL.

It means we only have another two weeks before it's all out in the open for all to see.

 

[FlyHigh18]

Can we have an inquiry into how many kids were plucked from their family & home and sent interstate to play footy? Make sure to ask how many of them were also denied a family visit when requested.
Actually, could we interview only indigenous peoples please.

I'll start typing up the report... "National Draft Racism Review..."
No leaks please

 

[Noidnadroj]

The point is simple, suggesting an abortion to an Aboriginal person who does not want one could be catastrophic. Can you provide the statistics on the following-
How many of the Aboriginals who were having the abortions were from traditional mob backgrounds?
How many were from families linked to stolen generation and Inter generational trauma?
How many of the Abortions were due to rape and violence?

Is there any actual data or research to prove suggesting an abortion to an aboriginal person is more catastrophic on average than it would be to a non-aboriginal person?? Or was that just an assumption?


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[ferball]

Absolutely! Trent Cotchin was Dusty’s minder back in the day. He was basically on call 24/7 should Dusty ever need ‘assistance’. And yes, that’s a fact.


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Dustin Martin has Maori heritage and claims indigenous Australian heritage based on recognition from groups in Tasmania.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Can we have an inquiry into how many kids were plucked from their family & home and sent interstate to play footy? Make sure to ask how many of them were also denied a family visit when requested.
Actually, could we interview only indigenous peoples please.

I'll start typing up the report... "National Draft Racism Review..."
No leaks please

How many of those non Aboriginal kids could not speak English? How many of them were racially abused? How many had horrific backgrounds of disadvantage? How many had to learn a new culture? How many had a different skin colour?

 

[peetoo]

Perhaps if you understood the Stolen Generations and the devastation this has caused Aboriginal people then maybe you could begin to understand the catastrophic impact the suggestion of an abortion would have

Did the report actually identify that

 

[VinnieB]

Can we have an inquiry into how many kids were plucked from their family & home and sent interstate to play footy? Make sure to ask how many of them were also denied a family visit when requested.
Actually, could we interview only indigenous peoples please.

I'll start typing up the report... "National Draft Racism Review..."
No leaks please

Speechless….

 

[peetoo]

The report is irrelevant to what I am saying, I don't care what is says or doesn't say. I am just telling you that any Aboriginal who has links to stolen generation may be severely damaged if an abortion is suggested.

Thanks for sharing. Abortion wasn’t part of the scene back then, but as I said it’s how the individual involved is affected, not how dozens of commentators feel on their behalf.

 

[The Warlord]

Absolutely! Trent Cotchin was Dusty’s minder back in the day. He was basically on call 24/7 should Dusty ever need ‘assistance’. And yes, that’s a fact.


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Richmond's coercive control of a First Nations player doesn't count though.

 

[peetoo]

I can categorically tell you that a large number of Aboriginal people with links to stolen generation are deeply impacted by abortion.

Are you not surprised that this mar not have been referenced directly in the extensive first hand story telling


Or maybe it was. That’s why I asked

 

[sr36]

Richmond's coercive control of a First Nations player doesn't count though.

Whatabout all these other people who haven't made complaints about the way they were treated by there club? Let's see if we can find some other people who may have less serious grievances, suggest they're equivalent, even though they're clearly not. That way the Hawk coach accusations won't look as bad.

 

[Maddo11]

Can we have an inquiry into how many kids were plucked from their family & home and sent interstate to play footy? Make sure to ask how many of them were also denied a family visit when requested.
Actually, could we interview only indigenous peoples please.

I'll start typing up the report... "National Draft Racism Review..."
No leaks please

... pretty sure indigenous people understand the impact of being plucked from their families..
Nominating for the draft is a bit different..

 

[peetoo]

Whatabout all these other people who haven't made complaints about the way they were treated by there club? Let's see if we can find some other people who may have less serious grievances, suggest they're equivalent, even though they're clearly not. That way the Hawk coach accusations won't look as bad.

Gee that sounds a bit like root cause enquiry dangerous in the eyes of the AFL

 

[1970crow]

What are you TALKING about?

Honestly. The two have no relation at all. None.

of course they do.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

No, they are both stories about indigenous players at Hawthorn having the club impose control on their personal lives during Clarkson's time as coach.

Those are facts.

The reality is that indigenous players at Hawthorn being given "minders" is literally the crux of this whole issue.

You've decided that Buddy being given a minder doesn't need the lens of intergenerational trauma, I'm interested how.

As I said above, I know where you are coming from in that Franklin being given a "minder" doesn't have for mine any racist coercive control element.

But then again, I can see very plausible explanations for all the stuff in Retraction Jackson's story where there's no racist coercive control either.

But you cannot ... or more accurately wont even try it seems.

I only check into this thread every few days to see what the latest attempts from North fans are to try and depict this as a HFC/Egan/Kennett problem rather than a set of very specific allegations directed at Clarkson, Fagan and Burt, but the reaching you’re doing in this thread has become laughable.

Buddy was a 6’5 generational superstar at 20, who had every Tom, Dick and Harry trying to get their claws into him, and you’re making out like the HFC deciding that they needed to look out for him when he was out on the town was because of his skin color rather than him being the biggest thing in this town at such a young age.

 

[the big lebowski]

I only check into this thread every few days to see what the latest attempts from North fans are to try and depict this as a HFC/Egan/Kennett problem rather than a set of very specific allegations directed at Clarkson, Fagan and Burt, but the reaching you’re doing in this thread has become laughable.

The only thing more laughable would be a hawthorn supporter accepting the e allegations as true and then attempting to somehow spin the issues as not a hawthorn problem.

It’s like Optus trying to say, it was the hackers, it’s not an Optus issue.

Bizzare

But I can see how trying to pin the blame on authorised agents of the club in coaching welfare, administration etc and wiping your hands of it from a club post of view, keeps the demons at bay at night for you.

But it’s laughable none the less

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

The only thing more laughable would be a hawthorn supporter accepting the e allegations as true and then attempting to somehow spin the issues as not a hawthorn problem.

It’s like Optus trying to say, it was the hackers, it’s not an Optus issue.

Bizzare

But I can see how trying to pin the blame on authorised agents of the club in coaching welfare, administration etc and wiping your hands of it from a club post of view, keeps the demons at bay at night for you.

But it’s laughable none the less

LOL. Yes, it was such widespread club problem that Shaun Burgoyne quit the club immediately, Impey refused a trade to us years later and Wingard went to the dogs instead. Oh wait, none of that happened, yet some very specific allegations have been leveled at a select few….

But you choose to think it was a club sanctioned thing apparently, we just somehow asked Clarkson, Fagan and Burt to only do it to young draftees, behind closed doors, in secret, without the knowledge of any other indigenous players on the list.

 

[the big lebowski]

LOL. Yes, it was such widespread club problem that Shaun Burgoyne quit the club immediately, Impey refused a trade to us years later and Wingard went to the dogs instead. Oh wait, none of that happened, yet some very specific allegations have been leveled at a select few….

But you choose to think it was a club sanctioned thing apparently, we just somehow asked Clarkson, Fagan and Burt to only do it to young draftees, behind closed doors, in secret, without the knowledge of any other indigenous players on the list.

It was dank, hird and Robinson. It wasn’t Essendon

Newsflash

Organisations are responsible for the actions of their staff.

 

[Devington]

Surely the comparison with Buddy is about the extent the club (and I acknowledge Hawthorn would by no means be alone in it) went to control their players' lives and to mitigate any potential issues and 'distractions'? Different strokes for different folks, and clearly more benevolent appearing treatment for the superstar compared to the long shot rookies.

I can't speak for SBTDOTB, but I was really hoping the overall levels of interference in players lives, in general, would be a core focus that the AFL investigated. Lines are crossed at every club that wouldn't be accepted in the vast vast majority of industries, and certainly from the outside it seems like there are no solidified rules as to how far clubs can go, which would be a failing on the AFL's behalf.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

It was dank, hird and Robinson. It wasn’t Essendon

Newsflash

Organisations are responsible for the actions of their staff.

You compare these previously unknown incidents to an entire playing list being jabbed by a club/coach wanting their list to get big quick?

What I said earlier about reaching certainly stands.

 

[the big lebowski]

You compare these previously unknown incidents to an entire playing list being jabbed by a club/coach wanting their list to get big quick?

What I said earlier about reaching certainly stands.

It was John Elliot, Craig Bradley and Silvagni that cheated the salary cap. It wasn’t Carlton

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

It was John Elliot, Craig Bradley and Silvagni that cheated the salary cap. It wasn’t Carlton

Another bad comparison and false equivalence. How are you so bad at this?

We’re talking about specific conversations that took place between 2-3 staff and young indigenous players.

Are you suggesting Burgoyne turned a blind eye to these alleged actions by Clarkson, Fagan and Burt?