NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed. Part 2

Remove this Banner Ad

Wosh

Admin
May 27, 2007
92,610
176,207
Bluestone Station
AFL Club
West Coast
Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread.
Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the report button, please and thank you.

If you feel upset or need to talk you can call either Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 or Lifeline on 13 11 14 at any time.

- Crisis support for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders 13YARN (13 92 76) 13YARN - Call 13 92 76 | 24 /7

This is a serious topic, please treat it as such.

Videos, statements etc in the OP here:



Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

Process Plan - https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/do...erms-of-Reference-and-Process-Plan-FINAL-.pdf
 
Last edited:

SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay

Seasoned Football Analyst
Suspended
Aug 21, 2018
25,782
65,646
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Are we still peddling the lie that Jackson didn't give them an opportunity to respond, when 24 hours is pretty standard in the industry and he even offered to delay the story to get their response?

I'm dealing with several requests from metro and national media organisations today, none have a 24 response time.

In fact, it's exceedingly rare, journos usually want a same day COB response, sometimes earlier due to online.

Or it gets stretched out a bit longer if they have a bit more leas in time.

People who actually work in the media understand this.

But you clearly don't and never have.

(Indeed I deal with unethical types who did what Rusty did daily - contact with no intention of running a fair response, but want to be able to say they "contacted X for comment". 95 per cent of the time News Ltd use this cheap tactic. Maybe a home for Rusty after he's sacked.)
 
Last edited:

Log in to remove this ad.

QuietB

Hall of Famer
May 13, 2008
33,155
52,134
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Many sources have said that their experience wasn't all positive, but that they would still be involved with the club.

You have a one-sided view of how people view the club and Clarko.

I've since heard from a person who works with Fagan that he is a fantastic influence, and a much needed change from the previous disciplinarian coaching methods at the Lions.

My view is that Fagan at least has possibly learned his lessons. Or that his methods coaching the group vary. Or any number of possibilities.

My views encompass more than just the one side that you seem to have clamped your teeth on.

Move on. Litigating the reactions from the first days of this saga don't help your cause.
I'd be surprised if Fagan has changed his views one bit on the matters that the accusers don't want to talk about.
 

lewdogs

Premium Platinum
Jun 4, 2008
9,302
30,081
Vic
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Arsenal, Portland Trailblazers
Not really, if the gravest allegations about Clarkson's mistreatment and bullying of indigenous players were true, I'd be stunned if a guy like Jy Simpkin wanted anything to do with him
Well how would Simpkin know if the accusations are true or not? Also, if Clarko has to stand down then Simpkin will still be the captain.
 

JackOutback

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 15, 2011
27,929
40,699
AFL Club
West Coast
I'm dealing with several requests from metro and national media organisations today, none have a 24 response time.

In fact, it's exceedingly rare, journos usually want a same day COB response, sometimes earlier due to online.

Or it gets stretched out a bit longer if they have a bit more leas in time.

People who actually work in the media understand this.

But you clearly don't and never have.

(Indeed I deal with unethical types who did what Rusty did daily - contact with no intention of running a fair response, but want to be able to say they "contacted X for comment". 95 per cent of the time News Ltd use this cheap tactic. Maybe a home for Rusty after he's sacked.)
Ah, so you've never actually worked in 'news'. A COB business response is absolutely standard for a daily. Unless you think immediacy isn't something news deals with. Now, Jackson's piece was a feature, so he could and did offer more time. But it was a sensitive one that couldn't be undermined by sitting on it for weeks while a large organisation considered ways to kill it off. A lack of response doesn't kill a story otherwise journalists would never be able to reveal anything so long as the subject of the story turned their phone off :tearsofjoy:
 

Slartibartfast

Premiership Player
Jan 16, 2016
4,076
8,726
AFL Club
Melbourne
I'm dealing with several requests from metro and national media organisations today, none have a 24 response time.

In fact, it's exceedingly rare, journos usually want a same day COB response, sometimes earlier due to online.

Or it gets stretched out a bit longer if they have a bit more leas in time.

People who actually work in the media understand this.

But you clearly don't and never have.

(Indeed I deal with unethical types who did what Rusty did daily - contact with no intention of running a fair response, but want to be able to say they "contacted X for comment". 95 per cent of the time News Ltd use this cheap tactic. Maybe a home for Rusty after he's sacked.)
He offered a day, then got back to them and asked if they needed more time……..no response so they go to print which is what any journalist would do.
 

SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay

Seasoned Football Analyst
Suspended
Aug 21, 2018
25,782
65,646
AFL Club
North Melbourne
He offered a day, then got back to them and asked if they needed more time……..no response so they go to print which is what any journalist would do.

I wouldn't have done it like that when I worked as a journo.

But I didn't launch misogynist tirades at women on social media either, so happy to accept my methods were different from Rusty's
 

Slartibartfast

Premiership Player
Jan 16, 2016
4,076
8,726
AFL Club
Melbourne
I wouldn't have done it like that when I worked as a journo.

But I didn't launch misogynist tirades at women on social media either, so happy to accept my methods were different from Rusty's
I see , so you acknowledge he offered appropriate time , no further discussion re the time offered to reply???? . Why do you keep putting up these false arguments???
You were never a journo, a copy boy at best for a weekly suburban paper . :tearsofjoy::tearsofjoy: That has been clear from your posts which showed bias and a lack of understanding in your blinkered approach.

Then divert discussion to a comment he was quick to apologise for Which had no relevance/impact to the issue at HFC. :rolleyes: If Sonja has moved on I am not sure why you keep raising it, I guess you have no substance to disparage Rusty and that is the best you can do.
 

boncer34

Formerly "Dos23"
Jul 11, 2005
57,414
67,138
Baghdad
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Melbourne Storm
I'm dealing with several requests from metro and national media organisations today, none have a 24 response time.

In fact, it's exceedingly rare, journos usually want a same day COB response, sometimes earlier due to online.

Or it gets stretched out a bit longer if they have a bit more leas in time.

People who actually work in the media understand this.

But you clearly don't and never have.

(Indeed I deal with unethical types who did what Rusty did daily - contact with no intention of running a fair response, but want to be able to say they "contacted X for comment". 95 per cent of the time News Ltd use this cheap tactic. Maybe a home for Rusty after he's sacked.)
So by giving them 24 hours, Rusty gave them more then standard? Nice of him.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay

Seasoned Football Analyst
Suspended
Aug 21, 2018
25,782
65,646
AFL Club
North Melbourne
I can't even recall what he said. What was specifically misogynistic about it?

I cbf playing this game again, it's like on the Ukraine thread where you have to "prove" guys in uniform with SS insignia are Nazis.

If you don't think Jsckson's attack on the female North president was misogyny, that's for you.
 

Slartibartfast

Premiership Player
Jan 16, 2016
4,076
8,726
AFL Club
Melbourne
I cbf playing this game again, it's like on the Ukraine thread where you have to "prove" guys in uniform with SS insignia are Nazis.

If you don't think Jsckson's attack on the female North president was misogyny, that's for you.
It’s not a game and the thread is about racism at HFC, nothing to do with the North president so STOP diverting thread and raising it as an issue!!
 

Chief

In Mourning
Dec 1, 1999
117,327
101,487
Gates' Payroll
AFL Club
Carlton
I cbf playing this game again, it's like on the Ukraine thread where you have to "prove" guys in uniform with SS insignia are Nazis.

If you don't think Jsckson's attack on the female North president was misogyny, that's for you.
I literally don't remember what the words were. There's an article that is paywalled and the Google SERP summary shows what looks like a part of it.

I don't think it was misogynistic. He just pathetically labelled her a heartless, self pitying hypocrite. That description could be applied to many men.
 

SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay

Seasoned Football Analyst
Suspended
Aug 21, 2018
25,782
65,646
AFL Club
North Melbourne
it's not ne8ng swept under the rug, a proper investigation is ocurring where accusations are tested based upon the key principles of law.

It's also the most non AFL controlled investigation we've seen. The people on it are very much not stooges.
 

Engimal v3

https://www.stan.com.au/sport
Sep 21, 2017
10,582
22,760
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Tasmania
Any further updates on the WorkSafe Victoria investigation? Haven't heard anything since it was announced they were looking into it.
 

JGreezy

All Australian
Mar 27, 2014
871
3,342
AFL Club
North Melbourne
The broader point is whether Clarkson and/or Fagan did anything wrong.

...

Does it support the argument that he did the nothing wrong in terms of the allegations? No.
It's not a question about whether Clarkson did "nothing wrong" in his time as Hawthorn coach. That is an impossible standard.

The question is the degree to which he acted inappropriately and if it was enough to warrant punishment.
 

Bojan KantKick

Man United Legacy Supporter
Sep 5, 2014
27,026
25,333
Hertford
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Manchester United, Stevenage FC
And Chief you said ages ago you don't think Clarkson should be allowed around young indigenous players, or if you had indigenous sons you wouldn't want Clarkson coaching them, words to that effect.

Do you think Jy Simpkin is wrong to want to be a co-captain under Clarko?

Should his family be worried?
Simpkin putting his hand up to captain North and/or backing Clarko reflects to a degree his own experience of dealing with Clarko. It doesn't necessarily reflect his opinion on what happened at Hawthorn and Clarksons role in it. He's very mature for his age and maybe he will make his own mind up rather than listening to others.

Regardless, Jy's opinion doesn't make those accused more or less guilty. Hopefully that comes out in time.
 

sr36

Hall of Famer
Aug 20, 2009
37,317
52,774
Vietnam
AFL Club
Collingwood
Simpkin putting his hand up to captain North and/or backing Clarko reflects to a degree his own experience of dealing with Clarko. It doesn't necessarily reflect his opinion on what happened at Hawthorn and Clarksons role in it. He's very mature for his age and maybe he will make his own mind up rather than listening to others.

Regardless, Jy's opinion doesn't make those accused more or less guilty. Hopefully that comes out in time.
It's completely irrelevant. If James Hird every becomes a coach again, there will be white guys and Aboriginal guys with their hands up to captain, despite him having crossed lines and helped persuade experimental drug taking amongst both white and Aboriginal players.

"I don't want a promotion, because I don't trust my boss." Is said very rarely, regardless of opinions of the boss.
 

Remove this Banner Ad