NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed. Part 2

[Wosh]

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Videos, statements etc in the OP here:

NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

Process Plan - https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/do...erms-of-Reference-and-Process-Plan-FINAL-.pdf


DO NOT QUOTE THREADS FROM OTHER BOARDS

 

[South of the Yarra]

Language can provide us with much analysis in regards to racial perceptions. Interesting over the last 20 pages to see the way Clarkson and Fagan are referred to in comparison to the players and families. Exclusive language is a key indicator

jj15 I am interested in what is so amusing

 

[sr36]

But to what end?

It's not like they went sobbing to the AFL or anyone else about this.

It happened like 19 years ago, and as far as I'm aware, they only spoke about it now because Hawthorn specifically asked them about it.

Wouldn't they only go to court if they specifically wanted something from Clarkson?

Do you hire a lawyer if you don't want anything?

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Do you hire a lawyer if you don't want anything?

You hire a lawyer to protect yourself, or to guide you through a process you don't understand.

 

[jj15]

Language can provide us with much analysis in regards to racial perceptions. Interesting over the last 20 pages to see the way Clarkson and Fagan are referred to in comparison to the players and families. Exclusive language is a key indicator

jj15 I am interested in what is so amusing

You didn’t give one example, just a bunch of hyperbole.
Hence I found it amusing.
I’m indigenous btw and have found nothing exclusive in the conversation hence why I’ve been commenting.

 

[South of the Yarra]

You didn’t give one example, just a bunch of hyperbole.
Hence I found it amusing.
I’m indigenous btw and have found nothing exclusive in the conversation hence why I’ve been commenting.

As have I been commenting since day one. All I said is that I found it interesting the way the two groups are referred to the majority of the time. It is commonplace that the ones in power are referred to by name, title or grouping whereas the ones not in power are 'them, they and those'. Yes, most posters have been extremely respectful to Aboriginal people in this thread. Subtle Language is where it begins.

 

[blue healer]

Because it is with an independent panel which doesn't seem to leak like the AFL does to the media

But is this panel actually doing anything?

 

[yodellinhank]

The last I heard was that Clarko & Fagan had yet to make a statement to the panel because they were waiting on Hawthorn to release information to them, I am guessing that this is likely to be records at Hawthorn which could have recorded details of player interactions. If memory serves me correct, Hawks were one of the first clubs to utilise psychologists. I would imagine Hawthorn would likely require lawyers to sieve through that info. There is no indication this will resolve any time soon.

Yeah, you wouldn't want to just give your own honest account.

 

[PJays]

Yeah, you wouldn't want to just give your own honest account.

The other side's account was written by someone who's since been arrested for fraud

I'm willing to forgive Clarko and Fagan for wanting to be meticulous in their own responses, since the other side has never seemed quite as committed to the truth, from day one of the allegations being made public

 

[Rob R]

Seems pathetic from Hawthorn not to fully fund their counselling.

Also seems odd that the couple are complaining about the legalistic and adversarial nature of the investigation whilst threatening legal action.

It sounds like they asked for much more than just money for counselling.


The requisite support called for much more than funding for counselling. It was denied outright," Dr Courtin said.



Hawthorn shouldn't pay a cent until there has been a proper investigation with full cross examination of claims on both sides which should say if they pay a lot or potentially counter sue for damages.



Sent from my SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[HairyO]

Yeah, you wouldn't want to just give your own honest account.

And have one innocent mis-remembering used against you when the AFL decide they have enough for a lynching.

Im sure even a 1st year graduate would advise to wait for all the info to be provided.

 

[owen87]

The other side's account was written by someone who's since been arrested for fraud

dancing with glee that Egan got done for something unrelated to the report, which has nothing to do with the accounts reported by the ex-players and their families in said report, or separately, in the ABC article.

Funny how quickly people are willing to shut down the entire story isn't it? Those Indigenous ex-players and their families can't possibly be telling the truth.

 

[jj15]

Funny how quickly people are willing to shut down the entire story isn't it? Those Indigenous ex-players and their families can't possibly be telling the truth.

Funny how quickly people are willing to believe the entire story isn’t it? Those non- indigenous coaches and staff can’t possibly be telling the truth.

 

[owen87]

Funny how quickly people are willing to believe the entire story isn’t it? Those non- indigenous coaches and staff can’t possibly be telling the truth.

Multiple accounts telling remarkably similar stories of abuse of power, supported by stories like Sam Mitchell's showing a similar pattern of attempted controlling behaviour;

Fresh allegations emerge of Alastair Clarkson’s controlling behaviour

The details surround Alastair Clarkson’s treatment of Sam Mitchell during the 2011 season, the year the player’s wife Lyndall gave birth to twin girls and the family was beset by a number of confronting health problems.

www.theage.com.au

I'm with Eddie Betts on this one

“But I’m always gonna believe the players and the brothers.”

‘Still don’t feel like I belong’: Eddie Betts’ heartfelt plea for all clubs to investigate racism after Hawks report

‘Still don’t feel like I belong’: Betts’ heartfelt plea for all clubs to investigate racism

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[sr36]

You hire a lawyer to protect yourself, or to guide you through a process you don't understand.

Lawyers making press statements like this isn't protecting them. There's got to some process that they're trying to work through.

 

[jj15]

Multiple accounts telling remarkably similar stories of abuse of power, supported by stories like Sam Mitchell's showing a similar pattern of attempted controlling behaviour;

Fresh allegations emerge of Alastair Clarkson’s controlling behaviour

The details surround Alastair Clarkson’s treatment of Sam Mitchell during the 2011 season, the year the player’s wife Lyndall gave birth to twin girls and the family was beset by a number of confronting health problems.

www.theage.com.au

I'm with Eddie Betts on this one

‘Still don’t feel like I belong’: Eddie Betts’ heartfelt plea for all clubs to investigate racism after Hawks report

‘Still don’t feel like I belong’: Betts’ heartfelt plea for all clubs to investigate racism

www.foxsports.com.au

He’s always going to believe the players has to be one of the most ridiculous comments.

Is he believing T. Thomas at the moment?

The large majority of indigenous players had no issues with Hawthorn, remarkably similar positive experiences.

Funnily enough a few players who’s careers didn’t work out had some complaints.

 

[owen87]

Is he believing T. Thomas at the moment?

one of the most ridiculous comments.

Yeah, that one really was. Let's pretend context isn't a thing hey.

a few players who’s careers didn’t work out had some complaints.

Ah. Makes sense now. They're just complaining because their careers didn't work out.

 

[Rusty Brookes]

Don't read this if you are watching or want to watch Pepsi-Where's my Jet?

The threat of legal action is often a precursor to an out of court settlement. I don't know if anyone has watched the awesome doco on Netflix Pepsi, Where's my Jet? - it's about a young bloke who took Pepsi to court because they didn't honour a prize of a Harrier Jet that he believed he should have won by collecting "Pepsi points" which was advertised on TV. So the threat of legal action, got him into the offices of Pepsi where they offered him a 7 figure settlement. He didn't accept it (he wanted the jet), followed through on the legal action and subsequently lost.

The only time I've been on a jury was for a workplace issue with parallels to the situation. You'd better believe every aspect of the plaintiff's lives will be brought up in court - it will be up to the plaintiff's legal team to argue that the actions of the coaches, Hawthorn and the AFL were the only reason for subsequent mental distress. Even if Clarkson et al. are found liable, that liability will be mitigated by any action of the plaintiffs. The judge asked us to consider all the following (by memory this was 20 years ago):

1) Was the workplace unsafe?
2) If so, was the employer aware of the risk?
3) Was it reasonable for the employer to be aware of the risk?
4) If there was a known risk, did the employer do anything to mitigate the risk?
5) Did the employer follow the law and/or guidelines at the time of the incident?
6) Was the plaintiff aware of the risk?
7) Did the plaintiff's actions contribute to the risk?
8) Were there other plausible explanations for the mental state of the plaintiffs?

It was all pretty raw. I'm not sure many people would want to go through the whole process to be honest. Hence, I reckon this is headed for an out of court settlement.

 

[PrinceCharles]

He’s always going to believe the players has to be one of the most ridiculous comments.

Is he believing T. Thomas at the moment?

The large majority of indigenous players had no issues with Hawthorn, remarkably similar positive experiences.

Funnily enough a few players who’s careers didn’t work out had some complaints.

Wow, the level of stupidity in this post is bizarre.

 

[mcnulty]

Credit where it’s due this is a fair return of serve from Jeff.

Bluff called.


r/AFLPosted by u/AlphonseGangitano48 minutes ago
Jeff Kennett responds to former Hawthorn player and his wife threatening legal action against the club
Ex-Hawthorn president Jeff Kennett has urged the club not to give in to what he sees as a “one-sided public blackmail campaign”.
Tuesday’s Herald Sun revealed a former Hawthorn player and his wife were threatening legal action against the club, claiming it has “abandoned” them in the aftermath of its racism scandal.
Lawyers for the couple released a statement, saying the couple’s lives had been “turned upside down” in the fallout from the Hawks’ Cultural Safety Review, which was established to probe historic allegations of racism at the club.
But Kennett, who was part of the Hawks board that commissioned the report, said the allegations deserved to be tested in a proper forum.
“I’m just talking as a Hawthorn member, but I am sick and tired of this particular lawyer hiding behind the anonymity of her clients, defaming the football club and its staff,” Kennett said.
“So much of what she has said in the statement is incorrect – and she has admitted that her clients have decided not to participate in the AFL investigation – because they simply don’t trust it.
“That is their choice but they can’t then expect, on the advice of their lawyer, to conduct a public campaign, defaming others, without being prepared to have their story tested.
“In the statement, the lawyer claims that they are considering civil action – I say to the family and the lawyer, if you are not prepared to be a part of the AFL investigation to establish the truth, then do as you are threatening to do and take it to the courts.”
Kennett added: “I know who the couple are and I also know the support the club has given to the couple.
“The lawyer should clearly explain to her clients the scrutiny that going to the courts will provide, the risks and the costs associated with that.
‘Voices are being silenced’: Ex-Hawk, wife threaten legal action Why have AFL coaches been snubbed in footy’s bounce back? “While some of the claims made may have merit – or may not – the only way to establish the truth is for those who make the claims to be a part of the AFL investigation or civil courts …
“But neither the AFL nor Hawthorn should – and hopefully they will not – give in to what I consider to effectively be a one-sided public blackmail campaign.”

 

[blackshadow]

Credit where it’s due this is a fair return of serve from Jeff.

Bluff called.


r/AFLPosted by u/AlphonseGangitano48 minutes ago
Jeff Kennett responds to former Hawthorn player and his wife threatening legal action against the club
Ex-Hawthorn president Jeff Kennett has urged the club not to give in to what he sees as a “one-sided public blackmail campaign”.
Tuesday’s Herald Sun revealed a former Hawthorn player and his wife were threatening legal action against the club, claiming it has “abandoned” them in the aftermath of its racism scandal.
Lawyers for the couple released a statement, saying the couple’s lives had been “turned upside down” in the fallout from the Hawks’ Cultural Safety Review, which was established to probe historic allegations of racism at the club.
But Kennett, who was part of the Hawks board that commissioned the report, said the allegations deserved to be tested in a proper forum.
“I’m just talking as a Hawthorn member, but I am sick and tired of this particular lawyer hiding behind the anonymity of her clients, defaming the football club and its staff,” Kennett said.
“So much of what she has said in the statement is incorrect – and she has admitted that her clients have decided not to participate in the AFL investigation – because they simply don’t trust it.
“That is their choice but they can’t then expect, on the advice of their lawyer, to conduct a public campaign, defaming others, without being prepared to have their story tested.
“In the statement, the lawyer claims that they are considering civil action – I say to the family and the lawyer, if you are not prepared to be a part of the AFL investigation to establish the truth, then do as you are threatening to do and take it to the courts.”
Kennett added: “I know who the couple are and I also know the support the club has given to the couple.
“The lawyer should clearly explain to her clients the scrutiny that going to the courts will provide, the risks and the costs associated with that.
‘Voices are being silenced’: Ex-Hawk, wife threaten legal action Why have AFL coaches been snubbed in footy’s bounce back? “While some of the claims made may have merit – or may not – the only way to establish the truth is for those who make the claims to be a part of the AFL investigation or civil courts …
“But neither the AFL nor Hawthorn should – and hopefully they will not – give in to what I consider to effectively be a one-sided public blackmail campaign.”

Jeffrey says put up or shut up.

I find it rather distasteful to agree with him.

 

[yodellinhank]

And have one innocent mis-remembering used against you when the AFL decide they have enough for a lynching.

Im sure even a 1st year graduate would advise to wait for all the info to be provided.

You think Clarko might mis remember demanding abortions?

 

[peetoo]

Now it sounds like the parties being discussed have suffered more from the investigation than the actual incident(s)

 

[the big lebowski]

Now it sounds like the parties being discussed have suffered more from the investigation than the actual incident(s)

One couple, that lost a baby, and were forced to seperate, has stated (via their lawyer), that what they have experienced by hawthorn and the afl in the last 5 months is worse than what they experienced in the past.

Amazing

 

[HairyO]

You think Clarko might mis remember demanding abortions?

Well done on making my point.

 

[Osho]

Credit where it’s due this is a fair return of serve from Jeff.

Bluff called.


r/AFLPosted by u/AlphonseGangitano48 minutes ago
Jeff Kennett responds to former Hawthorn player and his wife threatening legal action against the club
Ex-Hawthorn president Jeff Kennett has urged the club not to give in to what he sees as a “one-sided public blackmail campaign”.
Tuesday’s Herald Sun revealed a former Hawthorn player and his wife were threatening legal action against the club, claiming it has “abandoned” them in the aftermath of its racism scandal.
Lawyers for the couple released a statement, saying the couple’s lives had been “turned upside down” in the fallout from the Hawks’ Cultural Safety Review, which was established to probe historic allegations of racism at the club.
But Kennett, who was part of the Hawks board that commissioned the report, said the allegations deserved to be tested in a proper forum.
“I’m just talking as a Hawthorn member, but I am sick and tired of this particular lawyer hiding behind the anonymity of her clients, defaming the football club and its staff,” Kennett said.
“So much of what she has said in the statement is incorrect – and she has admitted that her clients have decided not to participate in the AFL investigation – because they simply don’t trust it.
“That is their choice but they can’t then expect, on the advice of their lawyer, to conduct a public campaign, defaming others, without being prepared to have their story tested.
“In the statement, the lawyer claims that they are considering civil action – I say to the family and the lawyer, if you are not prepared to be a part of the AFL investigation to establish the truth, then do as you are threatening to do and take it to the courts.”
Kennett added: “I know who the couple are and I also know the support the club has given to the couple.
“The lawyer should clearly explain to her clients the scrutiny that going to the courts will provide, the risks and the costs associated with that.
‘Voices are being silenced’: Ex-Hawk, wife threaten legal action Why have AFL coaches been snubbed in footy’s bounce back? “While some of the claims made may have merit – or may not – the only way to establish the truth is for those who make the claims to be a part of the AFL investigation or civil courts …
“But neither the AFL nor Hawthorn should – and hopefully they will not – give in to what I consider to effectively be a one-sided public blackmail campaign.”

I much prefer the threat of legal action to being taken by surprise with actual legal action.

The former has the door further ajar.