NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

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Videos, statements etc in the OP here:



Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report
 
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Handsome.B.Wonderful

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How do you know?

The circumstances detailed in attachment 2 and the “Ian” story are exactly the same as this player has detailed in articles after he left the Hawthorn football club.

Raising his partners stepson, a lost pregnancy shortly after arriving at the football club and another pregnancy after that while still at the club followed by a stillborn birth after leaving Hawthorn. The time spent at the football club is also the same.

Interestingly in the old articles which are a direct account of his experience, not his partner’s, this player could not be more happy about the support network that Hawthorn provided while at the club and after he was delisted. Literally calls out how supportive Burt and Clarkson were, the faith they showed in him and that he was still in contact with them as friends.
 
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The circumstances detailed in attachment 2 and the “Ian” story are exactly the same as this player has detailed in articles after he left the Hawthorn football club.

Raising his partners stepson, a lost pregnancy shortly after arriving at the football club and another pregnancy after that. The time spent at the football club is also the same.

Interestingly in the old articles which are a direct account of his experience, not his partner’s, this player could not be more happy about the support network that Hawthorn provided while at the club and after he was delisted. Literally calls out how supportive Burt and Clarkson were, the faith they showed in him and that he was still in contact with them as friends.

Doesn’t sound like he was happy with it at face value.
 

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Corkintheocean

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I don't know any intimate details around this story but it's starting to sound like a stitch up for mine. There's the issue of the 10 year changing story as outlined above by Handsome. Now there's terms like "run like the Russian mafia" being thrown around.

Now I've been in corporate life in senior roles for the last 25 years. Not once have I heard that term being used before. I can't see it being used at a football club...by an assistant coach no less. That's a term used to paint something in a very negative light. Even though none of us who have a *ing clue what a Russian mafia is run like.

Clarkson, Fagan, Burt et al may have done some wrong. To the extent that's being portrayed...not for mine.

They're being stitched up. Who could possibly have motive and be of such vindictive character to destroy all around him?

IMO!!!
Ah yes, 'Handsome' has definitely displayed to us how his investigative journalism credentials far outshine those of Walkely Award winner Russell Jackson. Definite stitch up on that basis.
 

less than zero

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I’m not naming the player but the circumstances in the leaked report and Jackson article are exactly the same, down to the age of the stepson when he arrived, a lost pregnancy shortly after joining the club and a following pregnancy resulting in a child.

The player also goes into detail about having a tendency to disappear for periods of time when life got hard for him or he made mistakes. This is pertinent information when lined up with one of the circumstances in the allegations.
So speculation? Interesting, as a few posters on your board are categorically denying it is him.
 
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The circumstances detailed in attachment 2 and the “Ian” story are exactly the same as this player has detailed in articles after he left the Hawthorn football club.

Raising his partners stepson, a lost pregnancy shortly after arriving at the football club and another pregnancy after that. The time spent at the football club is also the same.

Interestingly in the old articles which are a direct account of his experience, not his partner’s, this player could not be more happy about the support network that Hawthorn provided while at the club and after he was delisted. Literally calls out how supportive Burt and Clarkson were, the faith they showed in him and that he was still in contact with them as friends.
Reading the Jackson article, it suggests that both the player and the partner spoke, not just the partner.
 

Handsome.B.Wonderful

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So speculation? Interesting, as a few posters on your board are categorically denying it is him.

You are referring to speculation on the North board about a current North player.

The player in the newspaper articles I’m referencing was delisted over 10 years ago.

It is actually amazing that Russell Jackson has either not investigated these articles and their content, or he has deliberately ignored them. They are both in the public domain, still posted online on the newspaper’s site.

If Jackson knew about these articles and their content including direct quotes from the player he should have at least clarified why his story was so drastically different 10 years later.
 

Sphynx

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 10, 2011
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How do you know?

If you read the articles it's absolutely obvious it's Ian/Example 2.

He talks about struggles with miscarriage, moving to an outer suburb and helping raise his partners first child and then the mentions of his biological children align with with the birth times in the article and report.

He's also a Aboriginal/Torres Straight Islander, was at Hawthorn during when it was rumored and delisted and spent the amount of time on the list that aligns with the two stories.

It's also obvious from these two article's who the redacted coach in the report is (he no longer works in the AFL) and helped said player for years afterwards, including providing him a future assistant coaching opportunity for him under redacted coach at Vic Metro.

The obvious difference is, he undertakes these interviews 12/24 months from the events of the report when he's out of the AFL system and playing local football and heaps praise on the support Clarkson, Burt and redacted coach provided him in a very tough time in his life. He also owns alot of his own issues as down to his unprofessionalism. He specifically states he'd just go missing for days at a time when things got hard, which has direct relevance and provides contest on the accusations being levelled against Hawthorn when considering he is meant to be an elite athlete.

Another interesting point is, for someone who was supposedly forcibly separated from his community and people, Ian stayed in Melbourne for a number of years after he was delisted and Hawthorn and their network were the ones that provided him with work after football, a profession, the opportunity at his local football club etc.
 
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Sphynx

Norm Smith Medallist
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You are referring to speculation on the North board about a current North player.

The player in the newspaper articles I’m referencing was delisted over 10 years ago.

It is actually amazing that Russell Jackson has either not investigated these articles and their content, or he has deliberately ignored them. They are both in the public domain, still posted online on the newspaper’s site.

If Jackson knew about these articles and their content including direct quotes from the player he should have at least clarified why his story was so drastically different 10 years later.

If Jackson wasn't aware of these articles or didn't do his research. Or Ian failed to inform him/remembered them.

Then wow.

It's certainly A LOT of conflicting testimony for Clarkson and Fagan's defence team.

I think what's also relevant is, one of the journo's who did the main piece on Ian in 2011, died in 2018. He was a former political editor of the Age, he was also a Walkley winner and one who specialised in the treament of Asylum seakers and spent the latter part of his career to devoted to highlighting indigenous inequality.

His perspective on this would have been completely fascinating at the moment given he was right there talking with Ian just after the events of the report and in no way reported the struggles between Ian and the club.
 
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Sphynx

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 10, 2011
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Ah yes, 'Handsome' has definitely displayed to us how his investigative journalism credentials far outshine those of Walkely Award winner Russell Jackson. Definite stitch up on that basis.

Well the article in question was also written by a Walkley winner and a Graham Perkin Award winner for Australia's most outstanding journalist......
 

CheapCharlie

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 12, 2015
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I don't know any intimate details around this story but it's starting to sound like a stitch up for mine. There's the issue of the 10 year changing story as outlined above by Handsome. Now there's terms like "run like the Russian mafia" being thrown around.

Now I've been in corporate life in senior roles for the last 25 years. Not once have I heard that term being used before. I can't see it being used at a football club...by an assistant coach no less. That's a term used to paint something in a very negative light. Even though none of us who have a *ing clue what a Russian mafia is run like.

Clarkson, Fagan, Burt et al may have done some wrong. To the extent that's being portrayed...not for mine.

They're being stitched up. Who could possibly have motive and be of such vindictive character to destroy all around him?

IMO!!!

Conspiracy eh?
A few former players and their families, a former coach, a journo, and a Hawks investigation team all banded together to take down some big guns?
 

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Sphynx

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wouldn't linking the current story with the ten year old story necessarily identify the player, and weren't they trying to avoid that?

I'm not sure the 10 year old story, which is a first hand interview with the player itself, suits the angle of Jackson's article tbh.

It contradicts a major portion of the partners claims 10 years later.
 

Handsome.B.Wonderful

Premiership Player
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Conspiracy eh?
A few former players and their families, a former coach, a journo, and a Hawks investigation team all banded together to take down some big guns?

The conspiracy is not from the players interviewed, stories change over time especially over decades when people experience pain in their lives.

The conspiracy is that Russell Jackson has barracked way too hard for the story and released it either without investigating or wilfully ignoring direct conflicting testimony from the accuser.
 

Corkintheocean

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Well the article in question was also written by a Walkley winner and a Graham Perkin Award winner for Australia's most outstanding journalist......
You and Handsome are connecting two stories assuming it is the same individual with some back of the envelope calculations. If there was a systematic abuse of indigenous players/families going on, then it is conceivable similar events occurred during that period (of which, those involved may have different reflections on/or have changed their understanding of traumatic events once having time and space to process it).
 
Well, not really, it’s actually the law.
The law says you have to sue?
In a defamation suit, it will be incumbent upon the ABC to prove every accusation within that article was true.
Substantially true so no
Based on some of the wording like “forcibly removed” etc I imagine that’s not going to be easy

It’s not incumbent upon Clarkson to disprove the allegations.
Never said it was, said our defamation laws are good for silencing victims, which they are with how they work
Clarko has to prove he was defamed first. Like he has the burden of proof. Can't just bring a suit and go "go on, prove me wrong"
No Clarko has to prove there is damage to him from the claims. Then the ABC has to prove they were substantially true.
 

Dangerousfield

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Looks to be going swimmingly for the AFL.

All fairly simple, both sides can't be right. One side is telling the truth, one side is telling lies.

The AFL just needs to work out which side is telling the truth - simple
 

Sphynx

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 10, 2011
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So alongside the three couples telling independent first hand accounts we now have a former coach corroborating their stories.

The benefit of the doubt is shrinking for Clarkson and Fagan.

There may be a motive for the coach.

He was released from Hawthorn in 2012 and has never held a coaching position in the AFL since. He worked mainly part time at NAB League level afterwards and now coaches local football.
 
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There may be a motive for the coach.

He was released from Hawthorn in 2012 and has never held a coaching position in the AFL since. He worked mainly part time at NAB League level afterwards and now coaches local football.
How many allegations and corroborations thereof are going to be attributed to "revenge"?
 

jj15

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You and Handsome are connecting two stories assuming it is the same individual with some back of the envelope calculations. If there was a systematic abuse of indigenous players/families going on, then it is conceivable similar events occurred during that period (of which, those involved may have different reflections on/or have changed their understanding of traumatic events once having time and space to process it).
Hence why the accusers should come out and put their name to the allegations. Maybe they won’t because these old articles exist where they stated they had a great experience.
Maybe it’s not them in these articles. We don’t know until they are revealed so the aspersions on people that potentially have nothing to do with it can stop.
I mean the accused were named quite quickly without care of their or their families mental health.
 

less than zero

Team Captain
Jun 18, 2014
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The conspiracy is not from the players interviewed, stories change over time especially over decades when people experience pain in their lives.

The conspiracy is that Russell Jackson has barracked way too hard for the story and released it either without investigating or wilfully ignoring direct conflicting testimony from the accuser.
And it may take decades to fully realise the source of their pain along with being comfortable to able to reveal it to others.

There is more than one accuser
 
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