NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

[Wosh]

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Videos, statements etc in the OP here:

NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

 

[Ricketz]

This is classism, not racism. Tho the two are intertwined sure.



I have friends who are dead because they couldn't reconcile being members of the stolen generation. I am struggling to see how you can liken those accusations to what they went thru.

Well it's not my problem if you can't read what I wrote. The stolen generation were left without the guidance of their parents, elders and culture.

Nice job speaking on behalf of the dead, too. That's pretty disgraceful.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Unnamed hey…..

You want to believe it imo.

You equated police coming into indigenous homes and stealing children from their parents with advising a professional athlete to be professional.

Sure I can accept thinsgmoght lot have been handled as we would expect them to a decade later, but you are frothing for a villain.

Desperate for one infact.

Not one aspect of the stories makes sense

- he forced me to get an abortion, but we didn’t get an ablation, and then later with a different fetus we got an abortion

- despite medical advice that no one knows why a miscarriage happens, I can definitively tell what caused another ladies

- I was forced to cut contact with people, I was unable to use a phone, write an email, or use social media - sure

- the aflpa, cops, player manager were all aware of the horrors and did nothing

- we want to remain anonymous, so let’s talk to a jurno, implement out lawyer strategy etc all at a moments notice (or with orchestrated planning)

- why aren’t they lodging paperwork to sue the afl, hawthorn etc? Please tell me why they haven’t after 10 years. Please

Ripping kids from homes, destroying families, allegedly advising abortions are all horrific acts. One person's pain from stolen generation could be another's over an abortion. Both are horrific.

 

[South of the Yarra]

But I would also add that even if it was - it doesn't matter.

My boss made a comment to me in jest about 'going home to shag the missus' to celebrate something once recently. No problem.
But if he said the same thing, with the same intent and same context to a woman in the office - big problem.


And I think this is where this mad defence of Fagan and Clarkson is confused. They are not necessarily being accused of being mad raving racists. They're being accused of doing racist s**t.

Whether they're actually racists or not isn't the issue.

If you do racist things, you are RACIST

 

[Chadwiko]

Just for what it's worth;

IF it is proven that Clarkson/Fagan did separate young Indigenous men from their families, recommend abortions, cut off and control communications between families, etc etc... then yes, that would absolutely be racist.

I know there's a couple of other NMFC supporters here seemingly arguing that. But they're wrong and I felt it important as a NMFC supporter to point that out.

Here's hoping those things never actually occured though.

 

[ferball]

I'm certain he's denying that.

He denying that went down yeah.

Despite you saying this:

Yeah, but he's not denying that they did go down.

About 10 pages ago.

Now surely if just that one sentence hadn't been published then this whole thing would have a different vibe.

 

[sr36]

Thank you for the utterly irrelevant association.

So just to be clear. Your contention is that even in the case where the alleged actions might be shown to be NOT determined in their application by racial factors, then there is still racism in the actions?

Wow. What a brave new world we live in.

It's all just labels and categorisation. But surely you'd consider it shit, if the outcome of an action is more detrimental to one race than other races, regardless of whether it was intentional due to racist attitudes. Call it what you like, drop the isms, etc, but it's still something that we should try to avoid.

 

[Nickoo]

The abc said he didn’t have the report.

He would have done what good journalists do. Everyone knew their were issues with First Nation players and hawthorn. I imagine he went and met with every First Nation player on the list Over the last 15 years and asked questions.

No they went to the journalist and told him that’s how he knew. Or I should say the partners did.


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[Tiger08]

IF it is proven that Clarkson/Fagan did separate young Indigenous men from their families, recommend abortions, cut off and control communications between families, etc etc... then yes, that would absolutely be racist.

If they did these things.. and they did them because the men were indigenous, that would be racist.

Otherwise if they would just be awful things to do that football clubs have absolutely no right to be doing.

 

[Nickoo]

Too coincidental for mine. Timing is impeccable. How long was the report with Hawthorn before Jackson's work? Not that long from what I can gather. Happy to be corrected.

Sorry but in such huge matters, I don't really believe in coincidences.

Very true.


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[South of the Yarra]

Well speaking of not getting it, you equated the forceful stealing of children with encouraging/facilitating grown men living in an environment that was conducive to being a professional athlete.

Which has been standard practice for footy clubs for 20 years.

Yes, many of the young Aboriginal people who suffer inter-generational trauma as a result of stolen generation could easily equate what took place in the football environment with the forceful stealing of children.

 

[ferball]

Ling called it a "dog act" when he KO'd someone with a front on hip and shoulder on someone bent over picking up the ball. I liked him as a player, but that was a s**t act from LT. Is dog act racist? I wouldn't have thought so.

What did Ling say about Dangerfield a few years ago?

 

[sr36]

What did Ling say about Dangerfield a few years ago?

Not sure?

 

[Nickoo]

Agreed. She spent a whole career biting her tongue and reporting within the spaces given to her, mostly by people less impressive than her. She now has space and is flourishing in the openness.

I think she does sometimes show her hand a bit too much but she more than makes up for it with her courage to call a spade a spade and not let the latest zeitgeist or powerful interests dictate how she will report.

Very very biased. Often comes up with nice little stories that are shown by media watch to be unsound.


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[Nickoo]

100% - you have people saying Clarko et al haven't been afforded due process despite being given multiple opportunities to reply to the accusations - but without the ABCs report who is to say the Hawks report sees the light of day.

They got 24 hours and the journo sent email to general info@ addresses which gave standard response time greater than 24 hours.


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[South of the Yarra]

Anything can be traumatic to a stranger. Regardless of background. Indigenous people don’t own trauma.

Oh, my did I really just read this.

 

[ferball]

Well it's not my problem if you can't read what I wrote. The stolen generation were left without the guidance of their parents, elders and culture.

They were stolen from their families and forced to live as second class citizens while being subject to all manner of abuse. Including physical punishment for acting like black people. Its a fundamentally traumatic event for them and their families. As well as the stuff you said.

Aboriginal children are still being removed from their families ... with the "best of intentions" in the world. Did you know that?

Nice job speaking on behalf of the dead, too. That's pretty disgraceful.

**** off!!

Who the hell do you think you are saying that. You have no ****en respect kid.

 

[South of the Yarra]

See I’m talking about extending that thought process from the article ………. Into reality

So, no the players weren’t physically separated against their will.

Ok

Now, assuming they went along with it but didn’t really want to, do you think they were incapable of making any form or contact with their girl friends?

They couldn’t buy a new phone? Borrow a mates? Direct message someone on Insta? Use a landline? Write an email? Drive to their house when not chained up?

Tell me how in reality hawthorn could enforce a no contact rule

You have very little understanding of the young Aboriginal men and women who come into our football clubs.

 

[Ricketz]

He denying that went down yeah.

Despite you saying this:



About 10 pages ago.

Now surely if just that one sentence hadn't been published then this whole thing would have a different vibe.

He was not denying the events occurred, just how they were characterised.

"However, as the allegations against me have been spread widely and sometimes presented as indisputable matters of fact, I must state that my clear memory of the matters reported is very different," he said.

Why would he have clear memories of matters reported that didn't occur?

"The failure to maintain the confidentiality of the review and further damaging public speculation means I have no option but to express publicly, in the strongest and most emphatic terms possible, that I did not behave in the manner claimed."

Again, not denying the events occurred, just how he has been characterised.

"I have been committed to acknowledging and understanding their many varied experiences and brought all my efforts to ensuring these players are given the opportunity to realise their dreams. But not at any cost, and never at the cost of their families as has been alleged."

Again, not denying the events occurred, denying the outcome of those events and the motivations for actioning them.

 

[Nickoo]

Clarkson has the best lawyers in Melbourne so he is getting a right of reply.
The overwhelming evidence and corroberated statements stand there for everyone to see.
What's wrong is people inventing conspiracy theories or dismissing the available evidence.
They went to his house , changed his sim card, took some of his possessions and told him he was breaking up with his partner and living somewhere else. The partner contacted the club to see how her partner was, got a reply saying they can't do anyyhing.
She was in stress and physically sick and then miscarriaged.
Those are all facts that were corroborated.
There's people on these threads who don't care about facts or miscarriages, they just want a coach for their football team, which is pretty disgusting.

Why would they do that with no reason? What had been going on?


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[Nickoo]

Why was she contacting the club and not her partner? Seems wierd

Exactly. Like Meghan Markle can’t get a psych in London sort of weird. But that turned out to be untrue out of her mouth in last podcast.


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[Aristotle Pickett the3rd]

Why would they do that with no reason? What had been going on?


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White guys judging a different culture and forcing families apart to get 1% more out of the player in their bigoted minds.

 

[Nickoo]

The allegation is that the club cut all contact between her and the player including removing him from their house and taking his SIM card.

Why would they do that?


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[Ricketz]

They were stolen from their families and forced to live as second class citizens while being subject to all manner of abuse. Including physical punishment for acting like black people. Its a fundamentally traumatic event for them and their families. As well as the stuff you said.

Aboriginal children are still being removed from their families ... with the "best of intentions" in the world. Did you know that?

* off!!

Who the hell do you think you are saying that. You have no *en respect kid.

Are you saying two wrongs make a right? I am really not sure why you are giving me lessons about treatment of indigenous people.

I do have respect, just not for you. It's nothing personal, I don't have respect for anyone who speaks on behalf of the dead to give their argument credibility.

 

[Nickoo]

Far out what psychos did they have him locked up in basement somewhere, sounds like a Scientology cult

With hawthorn your never too sure.


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[Nickoo]

So you get a new SIM card. Call them and hey presto you have their contact. Or find out from a third party the phone number. Surely everyone knows this. Its probably saved to the phone anyway. The SIM card thing is one of the more bizarre aspects of this.

Smells to high heaven.


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