News Hawthorn Racism Scandal

[Saltiga]

The term 'racism' is used way too loosely these days.

If anything involves an aboriginal then it must be racism, no matter what it is.

Ever thought that maybe clarko and fagan were just ruthless insensitive pricks? That's not great either but being a prick doesn't make someone a racist.

 

[Jason K]

If they explicitly told and coerced "Amy" to get an abortion, then that is morally abhorrent. I'm not absolutely sure that is a legal offence, unless it can be proven that it caused some sort of financial or long standing psychological problem. I'm not a lawyer so unsure how that would go.
Clearly neither would be coaching in the AFL ever again.

I just wanted you to admit that it would be "morally abhorrent". I can accept you believe otherwise, although I don't.

 

[Festerz]

the accuser is now hiding behind vague notions of cultural appropriateness,

If they explicitly told and coerced "Amy" to get an abortion,

Not sure why you and others keep repeating this. 'Amy' has not alleged this (that she was told by Clarkson et al to get an abortion) at all.

With all this absolute BS flowing about her reported statements and motivations on social media, including in Big Footy, is it any wonder 'Amy' and other Indigenous family members interviewed in the Egan review are reluctant to participate in the AFL trial process?

Given so many people here have formed a strong negative opinion about 'Amy' without having taken the time to actually read Russell Jackson's report on his interview with her I paraphrase the key bits here :

On the day Amy and Ian had decided to share the news of their pregnancy with Hawthorn, it’s alleged Alastair Clarkson and Chris Fagan isolated Ian in an office and urged him to terminate the pregnancy and reside with an assistant coach.

He was then coerced to remove his SIM Card and cut contact with his family. Hawthorn staff denied repeated requests from Amy to meet with Ian, citing in one instance that her father, a well-respected Aboriginal man, was a threat to Ian’s safety.

The pair were reunited after five months, once Ian’s mental health had deteriorated. However, their reunion was conditional, and they were forced to move to a suburb more appropriate to Hawthorn’s image.Amy had the child, but was isolated from her family and suffering from postnatal depression. They eventually moved back to their home suburb.

Six months after the birth of their child, they were expecting again. The pair decided on terminating the pregnancy, traumatised over their initial ordeal.
Amy and Ian are no longer together.

 

[Jason K]

The term 'racism' is used way too loosely these days.

If anything involves an aboriginal then it must be racism, no matter what it is.

Ever thought that maybe clarko and fagan were just ruthless insensitive pricks? That's not great either but being a prick doesn't make someone a racist.

I think you just don't know what the the "term 'racism'" means.

 

[Saltiga]

I think you just don't know what the the "term 'racism'" means.

Give me a spell.

 

[Saltiga]

Not sure why you and others keep repeating this. 'Amy' has not alleged this (that she was told by Clarkson et al to get an abortion) at all.

With all this absolute BS flowing about her reported statements and motivations on social media, including in Big Footy, is it any wonder 'Amy' and other Indigenous family members interviewed in the Egan review are reluctant to participate in the AFL trial process?

Given so many people here have formed a strong negative opinion about 'Amy' without having taken the time to actually read Russell Jackson's report on his interview with her I paraphrase the key bits here :

On the day Amy and Ian had decided to share the news of their pregnancy with Hawthorn, it’s alleged Alastair Clarkson and Chris Fagan isolated Ian in an office and urged him to terminate the pregnancy and reside with an assistant coach.

He was then coerced to remove his SIM Card and cut contact with his family. Hawthorn staff denied repeated requests from Amy to meet with Ian, citing in one instance that her father, a well-respected Aboriginal man, was a threat to Ian’s safety.

The pair were reunited after five months, once Ian’s mental health had deteriorated. However, their reunion was conditional, and they were forced to move to a suburb more appropriate to Hawthorn’s image.Amy had the child, but was isolated from her family and suffering from postnatal depression. They eventually moved back to their home suburb.

Six months after the birth of their child, they were expecting again. The pair decided on terminating the pregnancy, traumatised over their initial ordeal.
Amy and Ian are no longer together.

Traumatic as that is doesn't mean it's racist.

I assume it's not totally uncommon for teenagers to be advised to get an abortion. I'm not going to comment on the morality of that as it's a separate issue to racism.

 

[Shaucob_Burjan]

The Kyrie Irving situation in the NBA makes me hate the good bloke defence culture of Australia

 

[edgie]

Give me a spell.

R-A-C-I-S-M

Find out what it means to them

Sent from my Nokia 7.2 using Tapatalk

 

[Papa G]

Even though the AFL hate the optics around this, there's no way Clarkson and Fagan fry for this. The "evidence" is completely weak at best and the fact that the accuser now seems to not want be cross examined in any meaningful way, it should be dead in the water. There will be money put towards "Cultural Awareness" roles at all AFL clubs, there will be more Welcome to Country type crappola, they'll introduce places like the Adelaide Oval as Kaurna Country and other tokenistic unnecessary gestures, but that's where it will end, although we may get some hand wringing mainly Government funded Talk Shows continue hand ring on behalf of the accuser with scant regard for established facts.

 

[Grave Danger]

Even though the AFL hate the optics around this, there's no way Clarkson and Fagan fry for this. The "evidence" is completely weak at best and the fact that the accuser now seems to not want be cross examined in any meaningful way, it should be dead in the water. There will be money put towards "Cultural Awareness" roles at all AFL clubs, there will be more Welcome to Country type crappola, they'll introduce places like the Adelaide Oval as Kaurna Country and other tokenistic unnecessary gestures, but that's where it will end, although we may get some hand wringing mainly Government funded Talk Shows continue hand ring on behalf of the accuser with scant regard for established facts.

...and less Indigenous kids drafted.

 

[StrappingTape]

Traumatic as that is doesn't mean it's racist.

I assume it's not totally uncommon for teenagers to be advised to get an abortion. I'm not going to comment on the morality of that as it's a separate issue to racism.

You're arguing with the leader of a whole bunch of people in this thread that went directly from A - Z and ever since has been writing chunks of texts from the position that Clarkson and Fagan are guilty, like he has any clue more than anyone else here about wtf actually happened (if anything at all). I'm actually shocked at how many people on this board seem to have hated Clarkson and all it took was some so far completely unfounded accusations to find him guilty then attack him non stop. Have I missed something he did to Port or is it from Luke Hodge smacking Wingard or something?

I don't think it's asking too much to just wait and see if anything at all is true, if so shoot him into the sun by all means but all we have so far is lawyers from all accusers doing their best to back out of everything (different opinions on why still doesn't change that they are) which just leaves us with unfounded accusations lobbed in from the ABC journo. Gut instinct tells me we'd have had more leaking by now through him if there was substantive evidence to back up anything at all to save his bacon but right now it looks like him and the ABC (in a roundabout way all of us if they lose big) will be the biggest losers out of this. I can't see how they don't sue based on the reputational damage if the status quo stays as is.

 

[Saltiga]

You're arguing with the leader of a whole bunch of people in this thread that went directly from A - Z and ever since has been writing chunks of texts from the position that Clarkson and Fagan are guilty, like he has any clue more than anyone else here about wtf actually happened (if anything at all). I'm actually shocked at how many people on this board seem to have hated Clarkson and all it took was some so far completely unfounded accusations to find him guilty then attack him non stop. Have I missed something he did to Port or is it from Luke Hodge smacking Wingard or something?

I don't think it's asking too much to just wait and see if anything at all is true, if so shoot him into the sun by all means but all we have so far is lawyers from all accusers doing their best to back out of everything (different opinions on why still doesn't change that they are) which just leaves us with unfounded accusations lobbed in from the ABC journo. Gut instinct tells me we'd have had more leaking by now through him if there was substantive evidence to back up anything at all to save his bacon but right now it looks like him and the ABC (in a roundabout way all of us if they lose big) will be the biggest losers out of this. I can't see how they don't sue based on the reputational damage if the status quo stays as is.

There's a few racism warriors without a cause on here so they just make one up to feed the chip on their shoulder.

Be a simple court system in Australia if judges had a chip on their shoulder and were allowed to handout sentences based on only half of one side of the story.

 

[Power Raid]

The term 'racism' is used way too loosely these days.

If anything involves an aboriginal then it must be racism, no matter what it is.

Ever thought that maybe clarko and fagan were just ruthless insensitive pricks? That's not great either but being a prick doesn't make someone a racist.

yep

without knowing the full details, I would suggest this is about "work place safety" and "safe working environments" rather than "racism"

the fact the investigation is probably framed around racism, rather than the lower hanging fruit would suggest the outcome will be in favour of the defence

 

[raptalia]

This is one of those threads that goes round and round in ever diminishing circles until the vortex in the centre sucks everyone down and around the 'S' bend. A thread best left alone, and yes, I will heed my own advice.

 

[dirty2]

Don't worry... The betting scandal will help people forget all about this.

 

[Nicktheguy]

 

[Schulzenfest]

View attachment 1561140

"Chris Fagan is innocent!", says Chris Fagan. More at 11.

 

[elsler]

Honestly do we expect anything to come of this . I don't i fully expect it to be swept under the carpet and them to say nothing to see here move along

 

[Handyandy]

Even though the AFL hate the optics around this, there's no way Clarkson and Fagan fry for this. The "evidence" is completely weak at best and the fact that the accuser now seems to not want be cross examined in any meaningful way, it should be dead in the water. There will be money put towards "Cultural Awareness" roles at all AFL clubs, there will be more Welcome to Country type crappola, they'll introduce places like the Adelaide Oval as Kaurna Country and other tokenistic unnecessary gestures, but that's where it will end, although we may get some hand wringing mainly Government funded Talk Shows continue hand ring on behalf of the accuser with scant regard for established facts.

I think this is too big now for an afl whitewash now. Justice has to be done and seen to be done or higher powers will step in and it’s the afl in the legal crosshairs. There are politicians (we have a very left wing gov now keen on reconciliation matters), govt bodies, NGOs watching the afl very closely.

 

[Handyandy]

I even heard talk of an indigenous player boycott recently

 

[Handyandy]

You're arguing with the leader of a whole bunch of people in this thread that went directly from A - Z and ever since has been writing chunks of texts from the position that Clarkson and Fagan are guilty, like he has any clue more than anyone else here about wtf actually happened (if anything at all). I'm actually shocked at how many people on this board seem to have hated Clarkson and all it took was some so far completely unfounded accusations to find him guilty then attack him non stop. Have I missed something he did to Port or is it from Luke Hodge smacking Wingard or something?

I don't think it's asking too much to just wait and see if anything at all is true, if so shoot him into the sun by all means but all we have so far is lawyers from all accusers doing their best to back out of everything (different opinions on why still doesn't change that they are) which just leaves us with unfounded accusations lobbed in from the ABC journo. Gut instinct tells me we'd have had more leaking by now through him if there was substantive evidence to back up anything at all to save his bacon but right now it looks like him and the ABC (in a roundabout way all of us if they lose big) will be the biggest losers out of this. I can't see how they don't sue based on the reputational damage if the status quo stays as is.

Zero chance Clarkson sues the abc.

 

[Portology]

Don't worry... The betting scandal will help people forget all about this.

Those }#%^ing operators would be sorely tempted to offer a punt on that very point.

In fact #%** it, why don’t they make a market out of whether market access for betting agencies might become subject to greater restrictions in the 1/3/5Y future? What a money spinning hedge that would be.


On iPhone using recycled electrons, via BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Powerade 08]

View attachment 1561140

Gave it a little love heart did ya mate? lol

 

[edgie]

I even heard talk of an indigenous player boycott recently

Utter nonsense.

Just this very off season we seen indigenous players nominate clubs with very recent scandals to be traded to.

Players don't care.

Sent from my Nokia 7.2 using Tapatalk

 

[Power Raid]

I even heard talk of an indigenous player boycott recently

ouch

the AFL won't like the perception of that. I dare say the AFL sponsors won't like that either