Bumped Hawthorn - the beginning of the end? Will they make the fnals in 2017?

Whiskers

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Oct 16, 2006
Posts
5,425
Likes
3,815
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Geelong
Absolutely cooked. It's about time the competition improved as now we will have GWS and the dogs as really good teams for a number of years.
Hawthorn just beat up on a low standard competition for a few years. Good on them but they have never been as impressive as some other great sides.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

JackOutback

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Posts
17,256
Likes
21,133
AFL Club
West Coast
Hawks fans putting a lot of faith in a player that hasn't got on the park for two years. O'Meara should be seen as a possible bonus, not an integral part of the mini rebuild, because that way may lie disappointment.
 

stfan

Club Legend
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Posts
2,849
Likes
2,841
Location
Melb
AFL Club
St Kilda
Throw in Roughead at full forward and Vickery at center half forward, Burton and Sicily with a pre-season under their belts and our forward-line will be significantly stronger in 2017.
https://au.sports.yahoo.com/afl/a/32648784/hawks-hoping-for-jarryd-roughead-2017-afl-return/#page1
That course of treatment is expected to last through to next June (2017).

We all want Roughie to get better, but if he is still being treated till next June it is hard to envisage him playing AFL level football in 2017.
 

Abasi

WINGED GOD
Joined
Apr 19, 2006
Posts
57,155
Likes
92,681
Location
Bayside
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Spurs, Socceroos
Moderator #1,704
Absolutely cooked. It's about time the competition improved as now we will have GWS and the dogs as really good teams for a number of years.
Hawthorn just beat up on a low standard competition for a few years. Good on them but they have never been as impressive as some other great sides.
I bet you've had to recite this back to yourself multiple times since 2012....and now you're trying to convince yourself that Hawthorn are completely done. It's cute.

I think you should read this post though.
Look, I hate Hawthorn. You bastards have done my head in this year with all those flukey close wins. You have succeeded in ruining me this year as the unpalatable prospect of a 4th consecutive flag seemed to dawn closer and closer. It seemed as though God was a Hawthorn fan, orchestrating ways to get them in the top-4. You guys ruined my brain this year. Destroyed me. I legitimately believe that the 2016 version of Hawthorn was incredibly overrated and should have finished 6th or 7th based on their form through the year and it killed me seeing you finish in an undeserved position. Your overall finishing position of "5th" after the finals is the true measure of where you were at and I, like most of the rest of the football world rejoiced in seeing you beaten, and finishing where you deserved.

But I'm nothing if not fair and while my hatred and jealously for your mob reached new heights, I can't let bullshit go unanswered. And anyone who thinks Brisbane from 2001-2-3-4 was better than Hawthorn of 2012-13-14-15 is spouting utter bullshit. Total utter bullshit.

I just don't get the orgasming over Brisbane. There is NOTHING about any one of those 3 premierships which was better than average (by premiership standards of course)

Their best percentage in all four years was 137% (and that was the year they LOST the Grand Final) and in 2003 it was in the low 120's. They never finished top of the ladder. They just weren't that good - it's as simple as that.

By any numerical measure Hawthorn was far better. They just were. There is a lot of Hawks hatred from Bigfooty posters which makes them unable to give the Hawks any credit. I'll give them credit where it's due. Hell, they probably should have won 4. How they lost in 2012 is still a mystery. Everyone knows Sydney stole that one (and I'm glad they did, but it was a steal)

So which other great sides have been more impressive?
 

Abasi

WINGED GOD
Joined
Apr 19, 2006
Posts
57,155
Likes
92,681
Location
Bayside
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Spurs, Socceroos
Moderator #1,706
Last edited:

Dan26

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jan 23, 2000
Posts
24,968
Likes
2,619
Location
Werribee
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
post count: 38,986
I bet you've had to recite this back to yourself multiple times since 2012....and now you're trying to convince yourself that Hawthorn are completely done. It's cute.

I think you should read this post though.



So which other great sides have been more impressive?
Well, if you are talking "three year eras" Melbourne of 1955-56-57 is probably the one. Top of the ladder every year. In fact, they finished top of the ladder 6 years in a row from 1955-1960 inclusive.
 

Abasi

WINGED GOD
Joined
Apr 19, 2006
Posts
57,155
Likes
92,681
Location
Bayside
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Spurs, Socceroos
Moderator #1,708
Well, if you are talking "three year eras" Melbourne of 1955-56-57 is probably the one. Top of the ladder every year. In fact, they finished top of the ladder 6 years in a row from 1955-1960 inclusive.
Sorry Dan, that question was meant for Whiskers, but obviously it reads as if I am asking you.
 

MightyHawks

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Sep 6, 2003
Posts
8,113
Likes
7,730
Location
Hawthorn
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Hawthorn
Absolutely cooked. It's about time the competition improved as now we will have GWS and the dogs as really good teams for a number of years.
Hawthorn just beat up on a low standard competition for a few years. Good on them but they have never been as impressive as some other great sides.
Look I used to call Robert Harvey "worst dual Brownlow Medallist ever" at the footy

Most Saints fans didn't seem to find it particularly funny, though I do recall having a good discussion with a bloke as to why Keith Greig wasn't more deserving of the title

But two Brownlows is still two brownlows - even if Chris Grant polled more votes

I'm more than happy for you to declare us the worst threepeat side in history - maybe the Geelong threepeat side would have been better, but you lost to the weakest of our recent premiership sides in 08. You were very impresssive that year though with about 17 All Australians

Interesting to note that losing Lake, Hale, Suckling and Roughy this year we were a shadow of our 2012-2015 sides, yet we were pretty competitive for 3 quarters against a really good side like the Dogs. Considering in your opinion the Dogs are much better than 2012-2015 Hawthorn I'm surprised our 2016 side wasn't smashed from the start
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

footyfan78

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Aug 27, 2014
Posts
18,171
Likes
17,604
Location
spacetime
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
there are no other teams worthy
Absolutely cooked. It's about time the competition improved as now we will have GWS and the dogs as really good teams for a number of years.
Hawthorn just beat up on a low standard competition for a few years. Good on them but they have never been as impressive as some other great sides.
GWS will be dragging other clubs up kicking and screaming I suspect. I reckon they will be the best team we have seen since the Brisbane Lions in a few years. At the moment though I see a lot of clubs will struggle to even get close to them in coming years. Dogs are the best chance of giving them a run for their money over next 5 years. Dogs will need some more classy key position players I suspect as time goes on. If GWS get a jump on even second best team it good get very ugly for 4 or 5 years. The trick will be whether they can keep their strong list together for enough years to cash in on what they have access to. Gold Coast should have been able to create as strong a list but they seemed to have blown it to some degree.

Having said all that, I am looking forward to the next super team. I actually like seeing when a team raises the standards up to something truly special.
I would rather see 2 or 3 super sides fighting it out for the flag than 10 good sides and one of them has to win the flag even when none of them are super standard. The cricket era we are in right now has no super sides. Kind of vanilla era. You can get to number one without even being great. Hence our side was no.1 Test nation for a bit with average team.
 

footyfan78

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Aug 27, 2014
Posts
18,171
Likes
17,604
Location
spacetime
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
there are no other teams worthy
It is the end of the beginning of the middle of their end. Surely ?
A month later I now contend it is just the middle of their end.
Still think they should have enough form to make the top 8 next year.
Rioli is so good he will keep dragging some lesser lights with him to make finals for a bit.
 

Sydney Bloods

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Apr 7, 2012
Posts
18,214
Likes
13,845
Location
Sydney
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Coney Island, GWS, The Exers!
we still seriously calling the death of the hawks?

oh bigfooty never change, they finished top 4 missed out on the minor premiership by percentage, missed out on winning their QF by a kick, all in a year they lost their most valuable player.

add to that they're set to pick up another quality free agent in the off season, get roughy back next year and have more matches umpired by stevic in 2017, they will be fine.
 

Footy Smarts

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Jun 19, 2006
Posts
6,698
Likes
9,491
AFL Club
Geelong
Think they'll do what Geelong has done since 2012, a small rebuild, hang around the 8, maybe miss the finals one year, then come back

On D5833 using BigFooty.com mobile app
The problem with that is they don't have the gun young to mid age players Geelong had in Selwood, Hawkins and Taylor. Geelong only had to fill out the team around these guys from 2012-2015 while the Hawks don't have this luxury.

I think they're doing the right thing giving it one more shot. If they get a couple of good young players via trade and everything falls into place they're a sneaky chance next year. But if all the oldies go now it's basically resigning them to 5 or so years until the next shot which means even a guy as young as Rioli will be right at the end when that comes around.
 

Whiskers

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Oct 16, 2006
Posts
5,425
Likes
3,815
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Geelong
Look I used to call Robert Harvey "worst dual Brownlow Medallist ever" at the footy

Most Saints fans didn't seem to find it particularly funny, though I do recall having a good discussion with a bloke as to why Keith Greig wasn't more deserving of the title

But two Brownlows is still two brownlows - even if Chris Grant polled more votes

I'm more than happy for you to declare us the worst threepeat side in history - maybe the Geelong threepeat side would have been better, but you lost to the weakest of our recent premiership sides in 08. You were very impresssive that year though with about 17 All Australians

Interesting to note that losing Lake, Hale, Suckling and Roughy this year we were a shadow of our 2012-2015 sides, yet we were pretty competitive for 3 quarters against a really good side like the Dogs. Considering in your opinion the Dogs are much better than 2012-2015 Hawthorn I'm surprised our 2016 side wasn't smashed from the start
You know what? That's a really good reply. With the dogs though, I'm not saying they are a better team than your 2012-15 side yet or GWS.
What I'm saying is I suspect they will be next year and beyond with a rapid rate of improvement. I'm pretty desperate for the cats to win it this year as it will be extremely hard to keep up in 2017 and beyond even if we improve ourselves.
Swans and Cats really need to take their chance this year.
 

Abasi

WINGED GOD
Joined
Apr 19, 2006
Posts
57,155
Likes
92,681
Location
Bayside
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Spurs, Socceroos
Moderator #1,718
The problem with that is they don't have the gun young to mid age players Geelong had in Selwood, Hawkins and Taylor. Geelong only had to fill out the team around these guys from 2012-2015 while the Hawks don't have this luxury.

I think they're doing the right thing giving it one more shot. If they get a couple of good young players via trade and everything falls into place they're a sneaky chance next year. But if all the oldies go now it's basically resigning them to 5 or so years until the next shot which means even a guy as young as Rioli will be right at the end when that comes around.
Rioli, Gunston, Frawley.....even if I stop there, that's a very handy group of "mid-aged guns" you can build around who have plenty of years left.

Not even taking into account blokes like Stratton, Bruest, Smith and Shiels who all have 5+ years left.

Put a tall forward back into the team, continue to develop Burton and Sicily, recruit T.Mitchell, JOM and Vickery.... Hawthorn will be very competitive again in 2017.
 

habib1984

Team Captain
Joined
Sep 21, 2015
Posts
375
Likes
250
AFL Club
Essendon
Rioli, Gunston, Frawley.....even if I stop there, that's a very handy group of "mid-aged guns" you can build around who have plenty of years left.

Not even taking into account blokes like Stratton, Bruest, Smith and Shiels who all have 5+ years left.

Put a tall forward back into the team, continue to develop Burton and Sicily, recruit T.Mitchell, JOM and Vickery.... Hawthorn will be very competitive again in 2017.
some of players like sicily and bruest are trade bait you cant bend everyone over like north
 

cryptor

Premium Gold
Joined
May 11, 2008
Posts
16,499
Likes
33,299
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Roughy said June 2017 from his own mouth on triple m rub.

Cancer treatment is no joke... 2018 return if the Hawks are lucky.
It's not your traditional cancer treatment he is receiving. This one isn't anywhere near as taxing on the body. He's continued to train with the club all throughout the treatment. If he's cleared as cancer free in June 2017 as hoped then he could quite potentially start playing again within weeks, if not immediately.
 

The Gong

Premiership Player
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Posts
4,397
Likes
8,151
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Northern Districts Tigers
People are still talking like you have to bottom out to come back up the ladder for another shot. That is not the case any more. Free agency has changed all that. Hawthorn are a destination club now and are very smart operators. As their stars retire they can top up with quality to replace them. There's a real chance they can be perennial finalists for many years now. They have a well run club, a great coach and the right game plan to continue to succeed.

As much as I'd like Hawthorn to fall off the cliff I don't see it happening.
 

DemonZombie_001

All Australian
Joined
Oct 9, 2014
Posts
821
Likes
706
AFL Club
Melbourne
He's an AA Full back, and one of the best defenders in the league.
Frawley is quality when he has players like Gibson and Stratton around him that are in form. As soon as that support network is not around him, he falls apart.

That is the problem for the Hawks now, the sheer talent the core players have shown over these last couple of years is getting eroded by age. And those core players have been able to cover the fragility of certain players up to now.
 
Top Bottom