Bumped Hawthorn - the beginning of the end? Will they make the fnals in 2017?

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Mr Lizard

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Best shot for goal at 2m tall in the game.
I reckon he'll go alright for us. It will be good to get a decent 26yo fwd/ruck at a cost of no draft picks or players.

Hey, do you reckon Dimma is feeling a little lonely as he waits for the new coaching staff to arrive, or do you think he is keeping busy sorting out a gameplan for next season?
 
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Exactly the demographic I'm talking about.

Would you sign up for 2017 if Clarko said it is rebuild time, North Melbourne style, Mr Lizard? I reckon it would cost 10,000 members.

But it's by far the smartest thing for the club to do. They can't win next year, and by end of 2017, their 30+ year olds will have very little currency.
Gee, imagine all those hawks with the family memberships that include 2 adults and 3 kids (real or not) that'll think twice about signing up again for 2017. If not then, i'm sure by 2018 they'll disappear back into the woodwork and be back in their rightful (still doctored) spot with North, Demons etc. Gill needs to sort that shit out, fancy having twice as many juniors as the next team, all legit though according to the club. It's the sheer arrogance of hawk supporters that I'm certainly not going to miss. I reckon most will disappear from here too. The arrogant flog above is the perfect example
 

Unfinished

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Gee, imagine all those hawks with the family memberships that include 2 adults and 3 kids (real or not) that'll think twice about signing up again for 2017. If not then, i'm sure by 2018 they'll disappear back into the woodwork and be back in their rightful (still doctored) spot with North, Demons etc. Gill needs to sort that shit out, fancy having twice as many juniors as the next team, all legit though according to the club. It's the sheer arrogance of hawk supporters that I'm certainly not going to miss. I reckon most will disappear from here too. The arrogant flog above is the perfect example
What a laugh, seek help
 

hk89

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everything screams 'stay the course' with their current playing group, but it would be a huge mistake.
I'd like to dismiss this opinion out of hand, but given your close up experience with playing group disasters as a Richmond fan, I can't help but sit up and take notice. I understand you'd be pessimistic, given the number of times Richmond fans have been convinced to 'stay the course' only to find the GPS was broken and had set a path directly off the nearest cliff. But this is Hawthorn, not Richmond.

Given their age, we are likely to get bugger all for Hodge, Gibbo and Mitchell at the trade table. Players in that age bracket very rarely have any currency, no matter how good they are. They are taking unders to allow us to make plays for O'Meara and Tom Mitchell, which means they are worth a lot more to us on our list than they are as trade bait. Clarko tried 7 debutantes this year. A brilliant move , as we now have a bunch of extra players with AFL games under their belt, which adds considerably to their trade value when we start arranging deals to get in our next wave of elite mids.

The players you mention have just given us three flags, and deserve some reciprocal loyalty from the club. Based on the fact they've received contracts for next year, it seems they are receiving it. You don't build the fabric of a successful club by shitting on your most loyal servants. Someone might have to go to get Mitchell and O'Meara, but it will not be any of the players you've mentioned.

There is clearly a plan in process. Lake and Hale were nudged last year. We tried a lot of inexperienced players this year. The next stage is to get two new mids in to replace half of the soon-to-be retirees. Next, we'll likely see two of the older mids retire at the end of next year, and then we'll need to get another two incoming mids in the year after, either from those on the list already, or from draft or trade. Outside of our aging mids, the rest of group has a younger age profile, so our mids+Gibson are the immediate priority.

The main risk is that 2 years to retire the current bunch is too long. It requires probably Mitchell and one other of Lewis, Hodge and Burgoyne to go 2 more years, which might be a year too long (Mitchell can go 2 more I think, not sure about everyone else). There is also a big risk with O'Meara. Has the potential to be one of the best mids in the competition if he is truly right to go, but I have my doubts. Less risk with Tom Mitchell, and while he is no Sam Mitchell, he does provide raw ball winning ability at the coal face, which we need to address going into next season.

I'd be surprised if we can't play finals again next year (certainly I think Hawks for top 8 is a much safer bet than Tigers), and if the mini rebuild that clearly started at the end of last year works well, I think we could still be hoping for top 4 next year, and maybe even the year afterwards. As with any year, top 4 requires a few things to go right for most teams, and we are certainly no longer a team that can just expect it to happen just based on talent alone. Would expect us to need above average luck with injuries to make another prelim, and doubtful anyone is going to be able to go with GWS over the next few years anyway. From that point of view, you might be right in terms of this being a good time to give up on finals for a few years to accelerate the rebuild, but rebuild on the fly clubs have done ok in recent years (we did it ourselves after 2009's down year), and it is a much less painful path for supporters (and helps maintain the 'destination club' status which has been very handy for us over the years).
 

hk89

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Gee, imagine all those hawks with the family memberships that include 2 adults and 3 kids (real or not) that'll think twice about signing up again for 2017. If not then, i'm sure by 2018 they'll disappear back into the woodwork and be back in their rightful (still doctored) spot with North, Demons etc. Gill needs to sort that shit out, fancy having twice as many juniors as the next team, all legit though according to the club. It's the sheer arrogance of hawk supporters that I'm certainly not going to miss. I reckon most will disappear from here too. The arrogant flog above is the perfect example
I'm truly sorry your club has scarred you in this manner.
 

hk89

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I reckon he'll go alright for us. It will be good to get a decent 26yo fwd/ruck at a cost of no draft picks or players.

Hey, do you reckon Dimma is feeling a little lonely as he waits for the new coaching staff to arrive, or do you think he is keeping busy sorting out a gameplan for next season?
This is a good point. He tried to steal the Hawks' game plan, but now that doesn't even work for us, he must be feeling a little bereft of ideas.
 

hk89

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Best shot for goal at 2m tall in the game. But even with Ty coming in, are Hawthorn improving as fast as the Dogs/GWS/Melbourne/Saints?
No, but we are probably far enough ahead of the next two that if we get the players we are expecting next year we'll stay ahead of them. I know we lost to Melbourne, but we had Frawley as a late withdrawal, and when Stratton went down, we were structurally ****** in defence, and that is when they piled on the goals. I hear we have pretty good player development too, and of the 7 debutantes we tried this year, I'd hope at least a couple push for more regular spots next year. Some have given up on JOR, but given the way injuries wrecked his early development arc I reckon there is still some hope he can play some good footy next to JOM.
 

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What the majority fail to realise that 2016 was a free shot for the Hawks and they still competed and were relevant in the season. Take a player the calibre of roughead out for a season and let's see what happens. The man is a beast and a focal point who was missed. He wasn't just a forward either.

Anyway, hawthorn blooded kids, developed talent and will definitely be involved in the off season. O'meara will happen, Mitchell will happen and Vickery needs a new home.

We are in a transition phase no doubt, however we will be relevant again in 2017. Beware

KOLOKOTRONIS
 

Freomaniac

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What the majority fail to realise that 2016 was a free shot for the Hawks and they still competed and were relevant in the season. Take a player the calibre of roughead out for a season and let's see what happens. The man is a beast and a focal point who was missed. He wasn't just a forward either.

Anyway, hawthorn blooded kids, developed talent and will definitely be involved in the off season. O'meara will happen, Mitchell will happen and Vickery needs a new home.

We are in a transition phase no doubt, however we will be relevant again in 2017. Beware

KOLOKOTRONIS
I like you... But please change your username
 
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I think it's a bold call to be writing off Hawthorn just yet. Both Burgoyne and Mitchell had good enough output this year to give reason to think they'll still be very handy next year. Obviously there's a big question mark over whether Roughhead can make a successful comeback even if, as we all hope he can overcome his illness. IF he can make it back without his therapy taking too much out of him he would be a massive "in" for them relative to 2016. And IF they can land both of O'Meara and Mitchell ,as well as Vickery via FA then you'd certainly think they are pretty much certain to finish top 8 2017. Top 4 not so sure, as arguably their top finish this year was an 'outperform' given the unusually high percentage of close ones they pinched. if they perform well enough next year to maintain the impression a flag is within reach for 2018 then they can stay up there given the advantage so called 'destination clubs' have in the free agency/trade table stakes. As for them dropping to bottom 4, even absent Roughie and only getting one of O'Meara /Mitchell, no way in the world will that happen( he says with a sigh).
I would have thought their rebuild would be helped by one at least of Lewis/ Gibson pulling the pin at the end of this season rather than have about 5 guys move on at the end of next season.
 

The 747

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What the majority fail to realise that 2016 was a free shot for the Hawks and they still competed and were relevant in the season. Take a player the calibre of roughead out for a season and let's see what happens. The man is a beast and a focal point who was missed. He wasn't just a forward either.

Anyway, hawthorn blooded kids, developed talent and will definitely be involved in the off season. O'meara will happen, Mitchell will happen and Vickery needs a new home.

We are in a transition phase no doubt, however we will be relevant again in 2017. Beware

KOLOKOTRONIS
So do you think your rebuild is complete or you might finish it off over the preseason?

THE 747
 
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What a load.

Frawley was in amongst a heap of AA squads being written up on this very board for the majority of the year.
doe
I meant key defenders mate. Why would I compare him to Docherty.

I'd have Frawley behind Mcgovern Tarrant, Talia and Rance, probably on par with Grundy. 5th or 6th, thereabouts.

If you don't agree than I can't help the fact that you don't watch much footy.


Then you say key defenders not defenders mate , you must be some dumbass if u can't tell the difference between key defenders and defenders
 

year of the cat

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I'm tipping them to scrape into the finals next year while Burgoyne, Hodge etc are still around then fall out of the 8 in 2018. I dare say there will be a couple more targets next year in their sights - they will be screaming out for a ruck and a key forward before long. More mids as well will be needed in addition to the two they'll pick up this year.
 

Nuggets73

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What the majority fail to realise that 2016 was a free shot for the Hawks and they still competed and were relevant in the season. Take a player the calibre of roughead out for a season and let's see what happens. The man is a beast and a focal point who was missed. He wasn't just a forward either.

Anyway, hawthorn blooded kids, developed talent and will definitely be involved in the off season. O'meara will happen, Mitchell will happen and Vickery needs a new home.

We are in a transition phase no doubt, however we will be relevant again in 2017. Beware

KOLOKOTRONIS




Pretty sure we were referred as "old & cooked" in 91 too??? :D
 

hawks787

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Gee, imagine all those hawks with the family memberships that include 2 adults and 3 kids (real or not) that'll think twice about signing up again for 2017. If not then, i'm sure by 2018 they'll disappear back into the woodwork and be back in their rightful (still doctored) spot with North, Demons etc. Gill needs to sort that shit out, fancy having twice as many juniors as the next team, all legit though according to the club. It's the sheer arrogance of hawk supporters that I'm certainly not going to miss. I reckon most will disappear from here too. The arrogant flog above is the perfect example
You certainly provided an example that defines arrogance.

Who are you to say my kids don't count?
Can only go off the system in place and what's recognised as indicators.
So yes they have kids memberships as they love hawks and get kids packs.
How arrogant of us to support they club we love
 

Nuggets73

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You certainly provided an example that defines arrogance.

Who are you to say my kids don't count?
Can only go off the system in place and what's recognised as indicators.
So yes they have kids memberships as they love hawks and get kids packs.
How arrogant of us to support they club we love
My dog has a Hawks membership ... And I don't even own a dog! ;-)
 
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