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- Dec 14, 2015
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- Essendon
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- Jye Caldwell & Georgia Clarke
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3rd round?every year I see Ceglar mooted as trade bait but with respect i think his value is 4-5th round or DFA. Given Casboult didn't get a bite as a free agent, what is his actual value?
Ahh the good old papers.
Just watch the headlines when Patton goes to the Hawks "Hawks take a huge gamble on a guy that's has 3 knee recos"
In steps that Essendon Dodo bloke with an offer and the headlines will be "Can getting Patton to Essendon propel them to the top 4"
Bookmark it.
casboult is a year older but otherwise very similar stats in a much worse team and he was free...3rd round?
Ceglar is surely worth more than Casboult.
Based on this data, Hawthorn are;
- the oldest list in the comp, with an average age of 25.1 years
- the second most experience list with an average of 84.2 career games
- have an average height of 188.4cm, which is the seventh tallest in the AFL
- have the shortest average contract length in the league
Your picks in the first five rounds of the draft are:
1st round pick (tied to Hawthorn - currently pick 4)
2nd round pick (tied to Hawthorn - currently pick 22)
3rd round pick (tied to Port Adelaide - currently pick 46)
5th round pick (tied to Hawthorn - currently pick 76)
5th round pick (tied to Collingwood - currently pick 89)
To check the draft order (updated weekly) see the thread here.
So, Hawks fans, who do you want to re-sign, and who is on the trade table?
Where do you see the gaps in the list as it stands?
Which players do you think are gettable to fill those needs?
What will it take, given the current trade and draft value on hand?
Way too slow
Paton in - late pick
Thomlinson in - free agent
Shai Bolton in - third round pick
Midfielder first round pick ie Young
Downgrade second round for two third round picks for extra points for Maginess.
If they can convince Cogs to come over then I think they can stay afloat next season with Mitchell returning and Wingard hopefully finding some form.
Worpel (despite Goddard) has been a bloody ripper in his second year although Sicily has wilted alittle with extra responsability (along with being thrown all over the ground)
JOM has cemented himself as a solid B grade midfielder but has continued to show he can't break a tag and has issues with his disposal. If he can become the thrid best midfielder behind Cogs and Mitchell though he becomes far more dangerous.
Scirmshaw looked decent although still needs too build a tank and has missed a worrying amount of games allready.
Impey has gone from an inconsistent player to a genuine B grader.
Hardwick and Shiel have had his colours lowered this season but still solid players.
There is not anything else worth getting excited about.
McEvoy, Henderson and Frawley are playing well but won't be apart of the next tilt.
The old brigade is just playing out their contracts.
19 unsigned players is worrying, They probably want to cut most of them but do you really want to go to the draft with that many picks at the back end? Remember each draft pick is 2 years on the roster.
Interesting times ahead for Hawthorn.
I have no idea where you are getting your figures from but Essendon's average is 61.7 career games using the same method as Hawthorn numbers that I quoted in the OP.If i make a comparison with my own team we average 55.4 games experience compared to 71.4. We are in the fight for finals and they are bottom 4.
I have no idea where you are getting your figures from but Essendon's average is 61.7 career games using the same method as Hawthorn numbers that I quoted in the OP.
Essendon is the 4th oldest list and the 16th most experienced, with 4 players over 30 (average), and it should be unsurprising that the only senior player who was not suspended in 2016 is currently the only player on the list with 200 games to his name. We have a pretty peculiar list, and unusual circumstances that make us a pretty useless comparison, least of all when put next to a club that hasn't put much effort into drafting for a long time.
Their list is in big trouble and as i have said before they are headed for mid table finishes for many years to come. It's possible mid table could be an understatement.
The bottom line is they certainly won't be a legitimate challenger for a very long time. Of course this is offset to some extent in that their supporters have recent flags to console themselves with.
They have the oldest list, weekly put out the oldest best 22 (Which is more damning) and have the most experienced list.
Experienced lists are the ones that are generally the best performing and usually the legit challengers, yet they are currently bottom 4.
If i make a comparison with my own team we average 55.4 games experience compared to 71.4. We are in the fight for finals and they are bottom 4.
Go to the draft
The big problem they face if they go to the draft is as they delist their current old players, and lose a lot of leadership, the kids who replace them take a few years to become hardened good players (No guarantees they even make it of course).
By the time that happens Birchall is 35, Bruest 32, Ceglar 32, Frawley 34, Gunston 32, Henderson 34, McEvoy 33, Puopolo 35, Scully 31, Shiels 31, Smith 34, Stratton 34, Wingard 29. Left out Roughy as we can all agree he's gone this year for sure. Now not all those players will be there next year but the vast majority of them will be
So if they had an influx of kids by the time they end up being any good Hawthorn will find themselves with a massive load of old players again. The best scenario they can hope for is to start drip feeding the older players off year by year but that of course leaves you without much leadership and a lack of experience.
Keep trading
This is the route that keeps them in limbo far longer but keeps them more competitive in the short term.
Players like Gunston and Bruest have been found out this year as they no longer have the great players around them and as more pressure and attention has been focused on them they haven't been able to perform up to past years, despite being in their prime years now. This isn't a Hawthorn problem only because every team has or has had players that were stars in great teams but average in average teams.
If Hawthorn do trade (This is assuming that good players even want to go there) then depending on the type of players they trade for these guys can improve on their current output but it's very unlikely to be back to their old form.
Of course going down the trading route sees them with less kids than they already have leading to even more pain down the road.
A lot of Hawthorn supporters think Mitchell coming back is going to solve a lot of their issues. He will help no doubt but he is coming back from one of the worst injuries a footballer has to come back from and there are several examples of players that took years to get back to their best (Voss for example) and in the case of Nathan Browne he never returned to his best form.
There are also rumours and were discussed today on radio that there is a split between the Board and Clarkson on their strategy going forward.
The Board want to go to the draft and Clarkson wants to keep trading. Not saying this is fact but there are quite a few rumours about this.
Anyways the above are just a few examples of what they face and there are many others good and bad but what i have no doubt about is it will be a very long time before Hawthorn are a legit challenger again.
That data would be a bit out of date, given retirements, pre-season signings, any cat B rookies signed on and the mid-season rookie draft. It also lists Hawthorn having an average of 80.4 career games. 71.4 games that you quoted in your post is actually Adelaide according to your link.Oldest? Youngest? Most experienced? Club lists compared
Nick Bowen looks at how the club lists stack up following the draftwww.afl.com.au
Smith is gaining significant interest from the Western Bulldogs and Melbourne.
Henderson, McEvoy and Frawley are all certain to get new 1 year deals.
The rumour on the Hawks board is that Burgoyne will go around again for another season. So he won’t be retiring.
The retirements will likely be Roughead, Puopolo, Birchall, Schoenmakers and Mohr.
There is not anything else worth getting excited about.
Pathetic sypnosis of a club you clearly hate. Stick to rubbishing your own. We could easily challenge again next year with a good off season (e.g Cogs and Patton) and the return of Mitchell and Wingard and hopefully Birchall. I can assure you we will challenge for a flag well before your rabble!Their list is in big trouble and as i have said before they are headed for mid table finishes for many years to come. It's possible mid table could be an understatement.
The bottom line is they certainly won't be a legitimate challenger for a very long time. Of course this is offset to some extent in that their supporters have recent flags to console themselves with.
They have the oldest list, weekly put out the oldest best 22 (Which is more damning) and have the most experienced list.
Experienced lists are the ones that are generally the best performing and usually the legit challengers, yet they are currently bottom 4.
If i make a comparison with my own team we average 55.4 games experience compared to 80.4. We are in the fight for finals and they are bottom 4.
Go to the draft
The big problem they face if they go to the draft is as they delist their current old players, and lose a lot of leadership, the kids who replace them take a few years to become hardened good players (No guarantees they even make it of course).
By the time that happens Birchall is 35, Bruest 32, Burgoyn 40, Ceglar 32, Frawley 34, Gunston 32, Henderson 34, McEvoy 33, Puopolo 35, Scully 31, Shiels 31, Smith 34, Stratton 34, Wingard 29. Left out Roughy as we can all agree he's gone this year for sure. Now not all those players will be there next year but the vast majority of them will be
So if they had an influx of kids by the time they end up being any good Hawthorn will find themselves with a massive load of old players again. The best scenario they can hope for is to start drip feeding the older players off year by year but that of course leaves you without much leadership and a lack of experience.
Keep trading
This is the route that keeps them in limbo far longer but keeps them more competitive in the short term.
Players like Gunston and Bruest have been found out this year as they no longer have the great players around them and as more pressure and attention has been focused on them they haven't been able to perform up to past years, despite being in their prime years now. This isn't a Hawthorn problem only because every team has or has had players that were stars in great teams but average in average teams.
If Hawthorn do trade (This is assuming that good players even want to go there) then depending on the type of players they trade for these guys can improve on their current output but it's very unlikely to be back to their old form.
Of course going down the trading route sees them with less kids than they already have leading to even more pain down the road.
A lot of Hawthorn supporters think Mitchell coming back is going to solve a lot of their issues. He will help no doubt but he is coming back from one of the worst injuries a footballer has to come back from and there are several examples of players that took years to get back to their best (Voss for example) and in the case of Nathan Browne he never returned to his best form.
There are also rumours and were discussed today on radio that there is a split between the Board and Clarkson on their strategy going forward.
The Board want to go to the draft and Clarkson wants to keep trading. Not saying this is fact but there are quite a few rumours about this.
Anyways the above are just a few examples of what they face and there are many others good and bad but what i have no doubt about is it will be a very long time before Hawthorn are a legit challenger again.
Pathetic sypnosis of a club you clearly hate. Stick to rubbishing your own. We could easily challenge again next year with a good off season (e.g Cogs and Patton) and the return of Mitchell and Wingard and hopefully Birchall. I can assure you we will challenge for a flag well before your rabble!