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Hawthorn's List Management: Did they get it wrong?
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hawkman
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Most of the goals were kicked by Hawthorn youth. Moore, Ross, Hanrahan, Lewis even O'Brien is only 24. Pittonet was probably the best player on the ground
Antares
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I mean, I'm not going to slag them, but they don't strike me as a high quality youth contingent. Let's see them at AFL level before suggesting they have what it takes.
You don't think I know how much you guys rip this guy to shreds? The fact that he's 24 and still on the list is the real brain scratcher.
It's pretty easy to ruck against nothing. Again I can't criticize him, but I don't think Casey were playing a ruckman, at least not in the 4th quarter.
If you can't land some mature targets and/or the cost/benefit of recruiting them doesn't work in your favour, it might be worth making a solid investment in the top 30 of this year's draft.And that is fair. The hawks have got all those players with pretty poor picks so whatever they are doing is working.
There is no chance the Hawks are even close to the finished product though. But pieces are coming together.
The question is how do you get an Oliver without the high draft pick or hope you a Cripps with a good draft pick or completely arse someone like Fyfe with a relative poor draft pick.
The hawks need to find a mid like those + at least one gun key back + at least one gun key forward.
Not too much to ask
Sure, it probably makes it hard to gain ground on the current top 4, but I'd back your recruiters to find some gems that could really give a 2020s flag push some impetus.
Dylan Moore was huge throughout the entire finals series and good again today, Ollie had a great finals (probably not his best day).
Pitto was BOG today despite not getting the medal.
Cousins has been consistently very good at VFL level all year.
Mitchell Lewis who was 2nd in the VFL for goals kicked this season
Not saying they will go on with it, but that is the young talent that helped win us the flag.
DrEvil_
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Yep.
SSSSSS
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Master stroke by Hawthorn and fair credit to Lewis himself. Can't believe he snagged himself a 3 year deal.
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Great win by box hill...they did have 16 listed afl players today...Worpel and Nash were late outs as well...the following will all play consistent afl over the next 3-5 years:
Marc Pittonet
Teia Miles
James cousins (if he doesn’t leave. He was robbed this season by Clarko. Deserved much better and has every right to leave)
James Worpel
Dylan Moore
Ollie hanarhan
Mitch Lewis
Out of the 16 listed players today only Worpel, cousins, Lewis, Pittonet and Dylan Moore will play 100+ afl games. Guys like Obrien, mirra, Whitecross, Lovell, Orourke who played well today are potatoes when they play afl and won’t be on the senior list in 2 years time.
There is definitely enough good young talent for the hawks to challenge again over the next 3 years if they can get some gun FA ‘s this year and next year. Their list management has been the best in the league for a decade now with a lot more hits than misses. Since 2009 they have not had a top 15 draft pick. Incredible when you think about it.
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Marc Pittonet
Teia Miles
James cousins (if he doesn’t leave. He was robbed this season by Clarko. Deserved much better and has every right to leave)
James Worpel
Dylan Moore
Ollie hanarhan
Mitch Lewis
Out of the 16 listed players today only Worpel, cousins, Lewis, Pittonet and Dylan Moore will play 100+ afl games. Guys like Obrien, mirra, Whitecross, Lovell, Orourke who played well today are potatoes when they play afl and won’t be on the senior list in 2 years time.
There is definitely enough good young talent for the hawks to challenge again over the next 3 years if they can get some gun FA ‘s this year and next year. Their list management has been the best in the league for a decade now with a lot more hits than misses. Since 2009 they have not had a top 15 draft pick. Incredible when you think about it.
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Marc_Remillard
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And providing leadership to our young list, worth every cent. Win win for both clubs, it freed up salary cap so the Hawks could buy a midfield
Yep, really bullish on Dylan Moore. He has come on in leaps and bounds in the last six weeks since returning from his shoulder injury. And I love Jiath, that he has been able to hold his spot in the Premiership team is extraordinary given where he started the season.
You mean the undisciplined free kicks off the ball? Yeah, great leadership.
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Jiath has a real crack which is great but his disposal is deplorable..will need to make huge improvements to play senior football...watch for Irving Misquito in the vfl next season. He will be doing his VCE so may not play every game but he is the perfect replacement for Cyril. He may even get 3-5 senior games.
I've met women that talk less than you and know more about footy, keep it up pal!
Strapping Young Lad
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You just made that up.
Strapping Young Lad
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What a load.
Geelong and Essendon fans mouthed off all preseason about how much better their teams were than Hawthorn, then Hawthorn win all 4 encounters against these teams and those very same posters squeal that Hawthorn got an easy draw.
Going by your theory, if we only play Geelong once next year it will be a harder draw.
why shouldn't they?
threenewpadlocks
Brownlow Medallist
God this is a bad thread.
I'd argue that their list management, if anything, has been the best in the league.
Why ever bottom out when, it being bad for the fans and the club finances aside, you don't know if you're ever going to return.
Why draft players when it takes them a few years to come good, when you can extend your time at the top by trading those draft picks?
Hawks haven't had a top 10 picks in decades. But if they took picks, instead of trading for Hale/Gibson/Lake/Burgoyne/Mitchell/O'Meara and so on and so forth, we know two things would have happened: they would have fallen down the ladder, because young players are worse than old players, and we don't know how good their picks would have been.
If you look at the picks traded in the Brian Lake deal, for example, they only gave up a pick in the value of the mid 30's. Those types of players on average only play 50 games, but many of them would be when a player is young and developing. Lake outperformed his draft pick.
O'Meara's a dodgy one because of his injuries - he showed signs of what made him such a dominant young player at GC, but he also lost games to injury. But if you can be confident that he plays to 30, on the balance of value of the picks that were traded - you make that trade time and time again.
I'd argue that their list management, if anything, has been the best in the league.
Why ever bottom out when, it being bad for the fans and the club finances aside, you don't know if you're ever going to return.
Why draft players when it takes them a few years to come good, when you can extend your time at the top by trading those draft picks?
Hawks haven't had a top 10 picks in decades. But if they took picks, instead of trading for Hale/Gibson/Lake/Burgoyne/Mitchell/O'Meara and so on and so forth, we know two things would have happened: they would have fallen down the ladder, because young players are worse than old players, and we don't know how good their picks would have been.
If you look at the picks traded in the Brian Lake deal, for example, they only gave up a pick in the value of the mid 30's. Those types of players on average only play 50 games, but many of them would be when a player is young and developing. Lake outperformed his draft pick.
O'Meara's a dodgy one because of his injuries - he showed signs of what made him such a dominant young player at GC, but he also lost games to injury. But if you can be confident that he plays to 30, on the balance of value of the picks that were traded - you make that trade time and time again.
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Chris Scott's finals record since he won the flag with Bomber's team in his first season:
12 finals: 3 wins, 9 losses
2012 EF - M - .Lost by 16 - Freo 14.12.96 .def. Geel 11.14.80
2013 QF - KP - Lost by 15 - Freo 12.15.87 .def. Geel 9.18.72
2013 SF - M - .Won by 16 - Geel 13.18.96 .def. Port 12.8.80 - 2nd (18-4) vs 7th (12-10)
2013 PF - M - .Lost by 5.- _Haw 14.18.102 def. Geel 15.7.97
2014 QF - M - .Lost by 36 - Haw 15.14.104 def. Geel 10.8.68
2014 SF - M - .Lost by 6 _- North 14.14.98 def. Geel 13.14.92
2015 - n/a
2016 QF - M -_Won by 2 - _.Geel 12.13.85 def. Haw 12.11.83 - flag faves lucky to beat over-the-hill Hawks
2016 PF - M - .Lost by 37 - _Syd 15.7.97 _.def. Geel 8.12.60
2017 QF - M - .Lost by 51 - .Rich 13.13.91 .def. .Geel 5.10.40
2017 SF - M - .Won by 59 - .Geel 15.8.98 _.def. .Syd 5.9.39 - 2nd (15-6-1) vs 6th (14-8)
2017 PF - AO - Lost by 61 - .Adel 21.10.136 def. Geel 10.15.75
2018 EF - M - _Lost by 29 - .Melb 10.15.75 .def. Geel 6.10.46
Incredible to think Chris Scott has coached the AFL's most talented list to just 3 wins from his previous 12 finals. So many weapons at his disposal: the AFL's best captain, the legendary Joel Selwood. The most underrated key forward-of all time, Tom Hawkins. The greatest small defender of all time, Corey Enright with other gun defenders such as Harry Taylor, Tom Lonergan, Lachie Henderson, Andrew Mackie, Zach Tuohy, Mark Blicavs, Tom Stewart. An abundance of top midfielders: Selwood, Stevie J, Bartel, Kelly, Chapman, Duncan, Caddy, Stokes, Motlop, Guthrie, Menegola, Kelly.
Not forgetting the AFL's pre-eminent player over the past few years, Patrick Dangerfield
What a waste!
Imagine if you could combine Geelong's awesome list management with some decent coaching
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Antares
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Why bother replying to your post when you're not even smart enough to read the opening post? I could repeat myself for the umpteenth time about timing for trades, but I doubt that'll get through your head.
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