Hawthorns Mental Toughness

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Funny thing is both Geelong and Hawthorn have been called chokers at some point over our golden eras, a sea of negativity from the general public can always be counted on. We have fallen off the peak off of our performance obviously. We're in a new era but the mentality at least remains, even if the list isn't in a position to genuinely contend just yet.

Not that there's an inferior way of winning a premiership, but look at Adelaide last year, everyone thought the flag was wide open but they were shook too easily and too dependent on everything going right. Even 2012 when we were coming off years of rebuilding and we weren't even fit for the GF, we still came back against Sydney and didn't roll over like the Crows did. The Swans and Eagles at least had the potential to knock us off if they didn't get demoralised by a good team taking it up to them so easily, the Dockers put in a shift at least.

It's actually kind of amazing how many top sides absolutely get thumped once the opposition team brings pressure for 4 quarters. A dynasty starts looking forward to getting challenged, that's the key. Hodge said so many times that he loved the opposition making a comeback that I honestly believe him.

I've been around a while, and Remember the Hawks flags of the late 70's and 80's. I can't recall them ever being called chokers. Dirty yes, overrated heaps of times, but never that. Maybe it's the circles I've moved n.

 

[hk89]

I’ve honestly got no idea why Richmond & Collingwood are considered ‘big 4’ when Hawthorn & Geelong have been clearly more dominant force since say, 1989 or earlier.

Essendon I understand with 3 flags and a dominant nineties period whereby finals and good sides were the norm. Carlton have been strong up until 2001, but not Richmond & Collingwood. I’d argue West Coast & Sydney slot into the other big 4 spots along with Hawthorn & Geelong.

Collingwood is still big 4, despite only having two flags in the last 30 years. It is still twice as many Richmond and Carlton, the same as Essendon, and only 1 less than Geelong (but 5 less than Hawthorn - if we include 1988). Collingwood won one spoon in those 30 years, Carlton 4, Richmond 3. Collingwood have a massive latent supporter base, and a very large actual paid up membership base. They have a bunch of assets, and make regular profits. If you combine on and off field success there is really a big 3 now and it looks like this (in no particular order):
Collingwood
West Coast
Hawthorn

All those teams have made multiple grand finals this century, and won at least one. They are very financially secure, with a bunch of assets, good revenue streams, and good membership numbers. A number of other teams can boast one or two of those on and off field criteria, but I think those are the only three that tick all boxes.

Geelong and Sydney would make it on on-field success but off field those two are not strong enough to break into the top group (Sydney especially).

 

[hk89]

Love it when posters just announce they are clueless to the rest of us. Cheers for that, we all know now how to view your future posts.

There is not one similarity in the approach of Hawthorn doing Kokoda and Melbourne doing their flog filled testosterone dominant alpha camps.

Not one similarity? I think you lack imagination. I'd say both off-season camps are a way of putting the players in a somewhat psychologically challenging situation in order to push them outside their comfort zones and form a bond with their teammates. Kokoda trail isn't climbing everest, but its a difficult track in a area that is likely to contain Malaria and other disease and injury risks. The risks are relatively well controlled, but it isn't risk free. I'd say it was a situation that was less controllable than the testosterone dominant alpha camps.

 

[MinerBoy]

The OP isn’t taking the Mickey, this poster appreciates all things football.
However I think this post he made is absolute tripe. Hawks are overrated imo

Yep the best sort of tripe absolute

 

[parsons nose]

You're overrating Hawthorn.

Probably because you are overrating Geelong.

To state that Hawthorn will win every premiership for the next decade would be overrating Hawthorn. To state they will enjoy another threepeat imminently,
would be a reasonable claim.

 

[Tuck In]

Thanks to the OP - a balanced post that is wider than "gee, aren't Hawthorn great". The mental toughness thing in the organisations and teams you mentioned most likely include - good recruitment (for the most part) focusing on fit as well as talent, creating and maintaining a culture that is tangible rather than amorphous and such is something new hires can feel and embrace, leadership developed through showing, doing and listening and a strong financial base that reduces mental worry. Of course, the playing team needs to have a base talent to be able to be developed and shaped but none of these things should be beyond the majority of clubs in these days of equalisation.

 

[Holy Rioli]

Its two rounds in. They beat Collingwood who finished 13th a Geelong side by a point that didnt have a backline. Get your finger outta ya butt.

We just beat the holy trinity with your 5th best midfielder, we deserve some credit.

 

[Benny78]

If it lasts i'll consider them a dynasty alongside Geelong and their little brother Sydney.

 

[Since 2001]

Its two rounds in. They beat Collingwood who finished 13th a Geelong side by a point that didnt have a backline. Get your finger outta ya butt.

We should've smacked em if we kicked straight

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

The only ominous warning was to Geelong that you’ve sold the farm for three magic beans.

Cool football opinion - did you read it on the back of a cereal box?

 

[Janus]

Cool football opinion - did you read it on the back of a cereal box?

Do you want me to clarify? Fine.

Free agency and future draft pick trading was never designed for clubs that had won flags in the past seven years to “top up” and pretend they are still contenders by putting all their salary cap eggs into one, two or three baskets while trading in middling players like Henderson and Touhy to supplement a list that was built during a premiership run.

You’ve wasted picks on trying to sell a dream to guys like Dangerfield who would have won a flag with Adelaide had he stayed, and ended up with a list that is completely unbalanced, targeting players in their mid to late twenties as if you are on the cusp of another flag run while your premiership stars retire.

Hawthorn, meanwhile, traded out guys like Sam Mitchell and Jordan Lewis and went after guys like Tom Mitchell and Jaeger O’Maera - guys who were actually young enough to be around in five or six years when the Hawks are genuine contenders again.

The only reason why it appears to have “worked” so far is because of the dearth of talent due to Gold Coast and GWS sucking up what would have went to other clubs that should be replacing you in the eight this year.

One club said that the ride was fun, let’s get back in line quickly so we can ride again.

The other is still sitting in the roller coaster, waiting for security to come kick them out of the theme park.

 

[Whiskers]

We should've smacked em if we kicked straight

Yeah and we should’ve won ‘08 but bad kicking is bad football. Mooney... farrrk.

Anyway wce will beat us more convincingly than you did but no one is gonna give them praise. Why? Coz anytime hawthorn win is generally overrated even when it’s against a Zac Guthrie led defence.
You’re a very average football team and right now we are to.

 

[Since 2001]

Yeah and we should’ve won ‘08 but bad kicking is bad football. Mooney... farrrk.

Anyway wce will beat us more convincingly than you did but no one is gonna give them praise. Why? Coz anytime hawthorn win is generally overrated even when it’s against a Zac Guthrie led defence.
You’re a very average football team and right now we are to.

Ok were are very average......lets see what happens tomorrow.

 

[JoondalupJ]

Seriously what is this Hawthorn utensil-sucking from a Geelong fan? Reverse psychology? Please start threads about Essendon or something.

Its about someone that observes. As any one with an interest in your opposition.

Having lousy opposition and winning means nothing, Geelong know it, and we know it about them, I always kick the umpires who are as confused sometimes as us the fans, and I do , do some knocking of a certain individual at Geelong, but believe me , I know what they are, our greatest enemy on the field.

Being recognised by opponents as something hard and different, especially dangerous opponents , that is when you need to look closely at them for next time.
The coach of Geelong doesn't say crikey that Hawthorn are a lucky dip bunch , we'll kill them next time, nah he says we know how good they are , how do we beat them, that's what Clarko does too, that's why we have a massive rivalry going back to 1963!

We have a love/hate relationship= we love hating each other,with great respect!

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Do you want me to clarify? Fine.

Free agency and future draft pick trading was never designed for clubs that had won flags in the past seven years to “top up” and pretend they are still contenders by putting all their salary cap eggs into one, two or three baskets while trading in middling players like Henderson and Touhy to supplement a list that was built during a premiership run.

You’ve wasted picks on trying to sell a dream to guys like Dangerfield who would have won a flag with Adelaide had he stayed, and ended up with a list that is completely unbalanced, targeting players in their mid to late twenties as if you are on the cusp of another flag run while your premiership stars retire.

Hawthorn, meanwhile, traded out guys like Sam Mitchell and Jordan Lewis and went after guys like Tom Mitchell and Jaeger O’Maera - guys who were actually young enough to be around in five or six years when the Hawks are genuine contenders again.

The only reason why it appears to have “worked” so far is because of the dearth of talent due to Gold Coast and GWS sucking up what would have went to other clubs that should be replacing you in the eight this year.

One club said that the ride was fun, let’s get back in line quickly so we can ride again.

The other is still sitting in the roller coaster, waiting for security to come kick them out of the theme park.

I nearly made it through the whole thing!

 

[TheFourPillars]

Yeah and we should’ve won ‘08 but bad kicking is bad football. Mooney... farrrk.

Anyway wce will beat us more convincingly than you did but no one is gonna give them praise. Why? Coz anytime hawthorn win is generally overrated even when it’s against a Zac Guthrie led defence.
You’re a very average football team and right now we are to.

Dont worry mate weve been overrated over the last 7 years. I dont care. All i care about is results. Who cares if u or anyone else rates us. Its all about banking the wins at this stage 4 points and move on

 

[hk89]

Yeah and we should’ve won ‘08 but bad kicking is bad football. Mooney... farrrk.

You lost some chances for scoreboard pressure, that is all. If every one of your kicked behinds (as opposed to rushed behinds) went through for a goal, and the same for ours, then Hawthorn still wins that game. This myth that bad kicking lost you the game is partly based at looking at the goals and behinds, and forgetting that a bunch of the behinds were rushed, not missed shots.

Anyway wce will beat us more convincingly than you did but no one is gonna give them praise. Why? Coz anytime hawthorn win is generally overrated even when it’s against a Zac Guthrie led defence.
You’re a very average football team and right now we are to.

You might be right, but it will take a few more rounds to really know where both sides sit. In any case, being an average side seems a prerequisite for winning flags these days.

 

[Jiggyman]

Very cool and fun thread

 

[bigfarter]

Just seeing the hilarious, offended reaction to this thread from some begs the question: are you so offended and untrustworthy like this in real life? Like, are you incapable of talking footy with mates or strangers who barrack for different teams? Seems so bizarre to me. Most Hawks/Cats games I go to I end up chatting and laughing with Hawks fans, despite the fact that the games are usually tense. I pity people so tribalised that they can't do that. It's just a game, FFS. Or maybe the people who get so salty on here just act this way because it's anonymous so they can take out impotent rage and feel tough? I don't know but it looks pathetic from the sidelines.

As for Hawthorn, like the best sides, they have belief ingrained over years of winning. It's why a team like Geelong on Monday can still think it's in a game despite being 5 goals down halfway through the last. It's a signature that's bred over years and the number one argument to me against tanking.

 

[fnerd]

Seriously what is this Hawthorn utensil-sucking from a Geelong fan? Reverse psychology? Please start threads about Essendon or something.

For the love of god she IS NOT A GEELONG SUPPORTER... is a west coast alias

 

[Macpotata]

4 goals down in the 2nd and 2 in the final term but their belief and endeavour never wavered. They truly are a great side the Hawkers.


Well played.

 

[HawkMongrel]

4 goals down in the 2nd and 2 in the final term but their belief and endeavour never wavered. They truly are a great side the Hawkers.


Well played.

It’s always fun to go back and find a call made early on that proves you right.

Well in.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Clarkson

 

[Sterge]

Resilience and belief is only a small part of it, of the teams the op named what do they all have in common.
Federer and nadal - all time greats
New england - belichick and brady possibly the greatest coach and qb ever

Melbourne storm seem to win a lot as well it wouldn't have anything to do with having some of the greatest league players ever in the team would it?

The truly great hawks teams
80s dunstall dermie etc
Not as good during the 90s/ early 2000s
Get blokes like hodge mitchell clarko etc for the threepeat team look at all that resilience

The current hawks team is good and they still have clarko so anything is possible but the comp is so even and they lack those real stars of the past.

So is it really mental toughness or just the fact all these teams/players/coaches just have exceptional talent that wills their team over the line?

 

[Snake_Baker]

Clarkson

He is head and shoulders the making of that club.