Autopsy HB Returns, Dockers smashed v Richmond

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Bicco

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Elite ball use won't cover up for a midfield that can't find space. We have one mid who can get clear, Brad Hill, and every opposition has covered him since the middle of the season.

Langdon can do it, Tucker will be able to do it eventually.

We kick up the line to protect the turnovers, if we are running well then we hit targets in the middle but it takes some nuts to pull the trigger on those kicks. Bennell hit the nearly stationary Fyfe with one. Walters looks for it, Johnson used to but he doesn't anymore.

Logue looks extra lost at times when the ball is peppering defence, I would have preferred he took the role of negating Rance's impact as a defensive forward but the amount of times Taberner had the paddock open up in front of him with a kick about to come in and went back to shove Rance instead of leading to the space would have meant we were two forwards down keeping Rance quiet.

Sean Darcy is working his guts out, he looks like he would get out bodied by a 60kg girlfriend rushing to the bathroom first. Not because he isn't strong, but because he has over worked his strength. He can stand and use his bulk but moving players aside has slipped out of his game. He will be so much better for his efforts this season, a strong preseason and he will be ready to win the rising star next year.

Fyfe is a gun. His efforts, and the scoreboard result, in the first quarter was all the first half of 2015 again. He keeps us in it.

If we could land a mature contested ball bull in the draft or free agency to pair up with him it would be great, we get smashed in the middle when he isn't rescuing us.

Mundy could do it but we are faced with the same result, if the ball isn't tapped where we are moving to then we get caught out of position and Neale's groin soreness is still there our players don't have the agility to counter. That isn't uncommon in the AFL, but I'd like to try a drill where the player on the other side of the circle is your opponent, not the one beside you to see if they can watch the tap and be moving to the contest or already breaking out if the ball is in hand. Hit outs to advantage are no good if the player was flat footed.

If we win the contested ball everything else is actually alright, not great, but alright. We could do with a contested mark forward and a bit more composure to hit the right spots when we have the chance.

Fast ball movement from defense dried up the last month and so has our scoring. The personnel is the same we are just not able to hit the free target in the middle anymore. Opposition identify that as our tactic and countered it, not such a big deal. We can outwork them with our power runners in the side which aren't there at the moment.
Doesn't your second sentance give you the pip? The opposition have figured us out. We've got one trick and that's it. What teams will do now is let Brad get the ball and force him onto his left 'cause he ain't got one.
This just sums up so much of Ross. We're going to try really, really hard and that should do it along with our one trick. 2015 was the same, Fyfe will dominate and we'll let everyone else follow. Fyfe stops dominating. .. game over. 2016, no Fyfe, no game. 2017 we'll get some outside run, that gets figured out, we're done. Ross just seems so one dimensional. Although he did mention in his presser we need skill and effort which is a big step for him.
 
Doesn't your second sentance give you the pip? The opposition have figured us out. We've got one trick and that's it. What teams will do now is let Brad get the ball and force him onto his left 'cause he ain't got one.
Langdon and Tucker contribute to this, Langdon the most. He is a massive loss.

We can't shoehorn Honda Civics into a supercar race when our first choice arent available and expect them to match it with the best.
 

meima

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Langdon and Tucker contribute to this, Langdon the most. He is a massive loss.

We can't shoehorn Honda Civics into a supercar race when our first choice arent available and expect them to match it with the best.
Whose fault playing players sore /injured and rush them back ?
 

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Bicco

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Langdon and Tucker contribute to this, Langdon the most. He is a massive loss.

We can't shoehorn Honda Civics into a supercar race when our first choice arent available and expect them to match it with the best.
I think you're talking personnel while I'm talking tactics. If Brad is innefective in his current role, why not move him and Bennell alone up forward and push the big forwards past CHF to dominate the midfield air. Watching both Hill boys has been so disappointing. But we keep doing the same thing. Losing twice by 100 points, once when we we up a quarter time, is just not on. Same game plan beat us and we played the same way. Those boys are out so we need to adapt.
 
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Not sure he tank , but grey ,Walters ,langdon , blakely ,Neale ,Sandi, spurr can all do with rest or playing wafl match before rushing back to play for Freo.


Do you think Ross has played to win? No way! he's picking a team to develop first, not to win. I'm happy with it though it's the right move, but we have definitely been tanking. Did you see DP at half back last week lol. Sutcliffe on the ball at times against Richmond, Hill starting at half back even though he's always failed there. I could go on. Every week it's been the same. The players aren't buying in anymore plus lots of the young players are tired.

That said, bring back AP at full back. Put Apeness in the goal square. Get Langdon fit. Hopefully we get a gun mid with our first pick and I'll get excited again. I don't think we'll win more games next season but we'll see more direction and possibility moving into 2019.

RTB and Fyfe we trust.

Challenge the behaviour support the team meima
 
Do you think Ross has played to win? No way! he's picking a team to develop first, not to win. I'm happy with it though it's the right move, but we have definitely been tanking. Did you see DP at half back last week lol. Sutcliffe on the ball at times against Richmond, Hill starting at half back even though he's always failed there. I could go on. Every week it's been the same. The players aren't buying in anymore plus lots of the young players are tired.

That said, bring back AP at full back. Put Apeness in the goal square. Get Langdon fit. Hopefully we get a gun mid with our first pick and I'll get excited again. I don't think we'll win more games next season but we'll see more direction and possibility moving into 2019.

RTB and Fyfe we trust.

Challenge the behaviour support the team meima

What is wrong with Sutcliffe on the ball? He is a midfielder and should have never been playing in defence in the first place.
 

meima

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Do you think Ross has played to win? No way! he's picking a team to develop first, not to win. I'm happy with it though it's the right move, but we have definitely been tanking. Did you see DP at half back last week lol. Sutcliffe on the ball at times against Richmond, Hill starting at half back even though he's always failed there. I could go on. Every week it's been the same. The players aren't buying in anymore plus lots of the young players are tired.

That said, bring back AP at full back. Put Apeness in the goal square. Get Langdon fit. Hopefully we get a gun mid with our first pick and I'll get excited again. I don't think we'll win more games next season but we'll see more direction and possibility moving into 2019.

RTB and Fyfe we trust.

Challenge the behaviour support the team meima
I don't buy the tanking part , clearly nyhuis and Collins ,deluca could all play against team like GC if he really want to tank and play to lose .
 
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We experimented out shoes off against Sydney. Long kicks up the middle out of defense, multiple times? Come on.

Then Richmond, no ball movement into the corridor except for that Bennell kick to Fyfe that resulted in a score.

Sure, but that doesn't mean we're not trying - the tank is on, but those sorts of performances are not part of the plan, they're not even an unfortunate by-product.

The reason we had so little ball movement into the corridor was because that normally is generated from the back half. You don't cut to the corridor from centre square (obviously) and you only do it from mid-wing contested play if you have a wide open players and that only happens if the opposition are asleep (Richmond weren't that). When a team has as much efficiency fwd of 50 as Richmond does, it means you're not going to get the ball as much from the back half. It came in there too easily, they had a great day in front of the sticks and that means we have much less opportunity to drive it back out with purpose. Then when we did have the odd opportunity, even quality players like BHill butchered it and we went into our shells more.

TL;DR:
We were beaten in crucial areas which made doing what you suggest as very difficult. I highly doubt it was because of some considered choosing. It's because we weren't good enough.
 
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Didn't like it, but the cue is in the rack and has been for a few weeks. Game time has been gotten into kids, which is the best thing. Darcy shows a bit as does Tucker. Thet wouldn't have played if Griffin and Pearce had. As much as I think Zac is "much maligned" he is where he should be. Be interesting to see whar Balic is worth to Vic teams. And another of fantapants great picks, no more Bennell, well and truly busted.
 

TheMcManusNose

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What is wrong with Sutcliffe on the ball? He is a midfielder and should have never been playing in defence in the first place.

I don't buy this at all.

First of all, to put Sutcliffe on the ball you're going to have to have him push out one of Fyfe, Mundy, Neale, S.Hill, or Blakely at full strength. Or at least on the current team limit the time you can throw Weller or Tucker in there.

Secondly, Sutty spent a lot 2013 and 2014 running off half back. He was decent then. He is just a fundamentally limited footballer and should be consigned to the void before he becomes a genuine list clogger.
 

scon

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Yep Sutty has just plateaued and stagnated; has not continued his early development.
I don't have an issue with him remaining contracted for another year as we continue to reorganise our list.However unless he somehow transforms his game or manages to reinvent himself as something noone has seen any signs of he has not realised the signs I thought were there early.
Don't buy the yarn that being played out of position or Lyon's oppressive defensive lunacy have squeezed all the talent out of him.
I agree with TheMcManusNose that he is simply more limited as a footballer than we all hoped.
 

Square Peg

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Our last two losses have been horrendous, but we were 2 points off beating Geelong, 12 points off beating GWS, and 9 points off beating St Kilda (supposedly years ahead of us in development)."

I agree with you for once, the last two weeks are pretty meaningless in the grand scheme. These were all very good performances. Yes we do need to find something more than winning games on effort, because then when Mad Monday is the end of year goal you get smashed as the effort drops. But we are tracking OK
 

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M_rash

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I agree with you for once, the last two weeks are pretty meaningless in the grand scheme. These were all very good performances. Yes we do need to find something more than winning games on effort, because then when Mad Monday is the end of year goal you get smashed as the effort drops. But we are tracking OK
Don't forget back to back Peel flags before the mad Monday!
 

BStaff17

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Sutcliffe was pick 63 wasn't he. So the fact he will most likely play his 100th game this week if he isn't dropped is a pretty good effort for a low draft pick as a 19 year old.

He is better in the midfielder then in defence as he turns it over too much in the back half. And has good endurance.

He does need to improve his tackling though which is horrendous. Gets fended off way too easily.


In terms of the team the most disappointing thing on sunday was the lack of effort and heart after quarter time. You would think last home game of the year coming off an embarrassing performance would provide a bit of a response.

Its not losing but how you lose and the fact we have become an embarrassment and laughing stock again 2 years after winning the minor premiership and were 1 game away from 2 grand final appearences in 3 years is sad.

It seems all that hard work we did to earn the respect of the competition which took 17-18 years to get has gone down the toilet.
 

mattis117

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Ball burner with bad decisions. Discuss.


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Disagree, Weller has been instructed to take risks. The truth is he is a beautiful kick who is learning how to play aggressive football.
 

Dockerbay

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Sutcliffe was pick 63 wasn't he. So the fact he will most likely play his 100th game this week if he isn't dropped is a pretty good effort for a low draft pick as a 19 year old.

He is better in the midfielder then in defence as he turns it over too much in the back half. And has good endurance.

He does need to improve his tackling though which is horrendous. Gets fended off way too easily.


In terms of the team the most disappointing thing on sunday was the lack of effort and heart after quarter time. You would think last home game of the year coming off an embarrassing performance would provide a bit of a response.

Its not losing but how you lose and the fact we have become an embarrassment and laughing stock again 2 years after winning the minor premiership and were 1 game away from 2 grand final appearences in 3 years is sad.

It seems all that hard work we did to earn the respect of the competition which took 17-18 years to get has gone down the toilet.

Outside of his disposal - Thought Sutcliffe was ok as the run with player in the middle - stifled Cotchin in the first, got blown away in the 2nd. But was one player who tried his guts out for the second half.
 

meima

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Outside of his disposal - Thought Sutcliffe was ok as the run with player in the middle - stifled Cotchin in the first, got blown away in the 2nd. But was one player who tried his guts out for the second half.
Are he the future ? I rather deluca than sutty .
 

meima

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Course not - he's a clogger - but if he can apply himself and become an alternate run with player he may just carve out a place on the list.
He stuff up his disposal even in WAFL , the only position I think he will be good at HF .Langford hawthorn whipping boy play there .
 
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