Strategy Head Coach: John Longmire - Part II

What should we do about the coaching situation?


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Bonz

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Not sure how valuable his experience at the Suns will be... they have barely been around long enough to be considered a proper club.

Though they did beat us, so at least we know he can coach!
According to our board anyone can outcoach Longmire.
 

Tedeski

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They love him and want him back. It's good he's getting experience at another club , not like Bucks, Voss , Watson and Hird .
Well if Horse is moving on elsewhere & they think Dew is the man then I'm all for that.....................................unless Gold Coast finish bottom 4 again & more players leave. Dew needs to establish a culture where players want to stay.
 

Tedeski

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Well if you never change it does make someone out strategising you easier.
Well maybe, just maybe, Horse is one of the top 3 coaches in the land & we are actually lucky enough to have him for another two years.
Some Swan supporters are just tired of him & want change, even if it means the next in line isn't as good as Longmire.
I've said it many times on here that people need to be careful what they wish for.
 

caesar88

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Well maybe, just maybe, Horse is one of the top 3 coaches in the land & we are actually lucky enough to have him for another two years.
Some Swan supporters are just tired of him & want change, even if it means the next in line isn't as good as Longmire.
I've said it many times on here that people need to be careful what they wish for.
There is merit to the idea that a coach can’t change his spots though. I can’t really think of an example of a coach winning two different flags, years apart, with a totally different game plan. Not much of a precedent there so I can very much see why people think Horse won’t win us another flag.

I’m confused though... why they’d ditch Horse but love Dew. They were hand in hand basically every step of the way this decade, which makes Dew nearly as much of a culprit in any of our faults as Horse is. If we were going to make such a change at the top, I’d rather bring in fresh eyes, someone not associated with whatever we were doing five years ago, because that’s irrelevant now.
 

Tedeski

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Maybe one of these guys can get us a decent game plan.

There is merit to the idea that a coach can’t change his spots though. I can’t really think of an example of a coach winning two different flags, years apart, with a totally different game plan. Not much of a precedent there so I can very much see why people think Horse won’t win us another flag.

I’m confused though... why they’d ditch Horse but love Dew. They were hand in hand basically every step of the way this decade, which makes Dew nearly as much of a culprit in any of our faults as Horse is. If we were going to make such a change at the top, I’d rather bring in fresh eyes, someone not associated with whatever we were doing five years ago, because that’s irrelevant now.
 

caesar88

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Lol Ted I didn't say I was totally down for it, but rather if it were to happen, I'd probably only be in support of it if Horse was replaced with someone from outside the club. Otherwise I'm not sure what it achieves bringing someone in who is from the school of Longmire. I just think fresh eyes are always needed or you can be stuck in your past as a club.
 

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That's a pretty spot on call , we often have 3 or 4 handballs to try and get it out.

Players will burst from congestion to be an option of taking posession if they have the desired work rate. This is one area of the game Longmire cannot be held accountable for. When we have the opportunity to spread and work hard to space we don't seem to have the numbers who do it enough. You know my thoughts on Longmire's game style but this deficiency sits firmly at the players feet and wrongly adds to the criticism of Longmire. Players are not instructed to not work hard. On the Contrary you can walk into any change room in Australia before A game and the first keypoint that hits you in the eye on the white board will be work rate. We need to be better at it to be more fluent. Ball movement patterns under instruction from coaching is another case entirely. That's where Horse is accountable.
 

bedford

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Players will burst from congestion to be an option of taking posession if they have the desired work rate. This is one area of the game Longmire cannot be held accountable for. When we have the opportunity to spread and work hard to space we don't seem to have the numbers who do it enough. You know my thoughts on Longmire's game style but this deficiency sits firmly at the players feet and wrongly adds to the criticism of Longmire. Players are not instructed to not work hard. On the Contrary you can walk into any change room in Australia before A game and the first keypoint that hits you in the eye on the white board will be work rate. We need to be better at it to be more fluent. Ball movement patterns under instruction from coaching is another case entirely. That's where Horse is accountable.
Well said as always , where is old mate CM ?
 

caesar88

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Players will burst from congestion to be an option of taking posession if they have the desired work rate. This is one area of the game Longmire cannot be held accountable for. When we have the opportunity to spread and work hard to space we don't seem to have the numbers who do it enough. You know my thoughts on Longmire's game style but this deficiency sits firmly at the players feet and wrongly adds to the criticism of Longmire. Players are not instructed to not work hard. On the Contrary you can walk into any change room in Australia before A game and the first keypoint that hits you in the eye on the white board will be work rate. We need to be better at it to be more fluent. Ball movement patterns under instruction from coaching is another case entirely. That's where Horse is accountable.
They're not instructed to not work hard, but are they instructed to stay in close to create congestion and create stoppages? I think it's very possible. I remember a few years ago I think it was Stewy Dew who after a loss said the midfield needed to be better at creating the stoppages to stop the opposition team's spread. (I can't remember the game in question) I think Horse & co see reverting to that stoppage game as our best way to win, because it's the way Horse has always known. If you look at times in 2018 when we'd be close to a clearance, very often the players who were supposed to be on the receiving end of a possession and start a chain would actually run into the incoming contact and invite pressure, rather than trying to clear it with hard-running and creating space. It just looked suspiciously intentional. That tells me our midfielders particularly are wired into a stoppage-based game to suck the pace out of the game. In theory it's a good tactic, but in doing so we suck the pace out of our own game and can't get anything going.

I don't doubt the work ethic of any of the boys who played for us in 2018, and we've seen some of them take the game on and be prepared to work hard with second, third and fourth efforts. So I can only conclude they're being instructed against spreading too much..
 

bedford

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They're not instructed to not work hard, but are they instructed to stay in close to create congestion and create stoppages? I think it's very possible. I remember a few years ago I think it was Stewy Dew who after a loss said the midfield needed to be better at creating the stoppages to stop the opposition team's spread. (I can't remember the game in question) I think Horse & co see reverting to that stoppage game as our best way to win, because it's the way Horse has always known. If you look at times in 2018 when we'd be close to a clearance, very often the players who were supposed to be on the receiving end of a possession and start a chain would actually run into the incoming contact and invite pressure, rather than trying to clear it with hard-running and creating space. It just looked suspiciously intentional. That tells me our midfielders particularly are wired into a stoppage-based game to suck the pace out of the game. In theory it's a good tactic, but in doing so we suck the pace out of our own game and can't get anything going.

I don't doubt the work ethic of any of the boys who played for us in 2018, and we've seen some of them take the game on and be prepared to work hard with second, third and fourth efforts. So I can only conclude they're being instructed against spreading too much..
Don't take this bloke on , knows what he says.
 

bedford

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Well thankfully we're a democratic society so I can have a discussion without having to take someone on.
Well thankfully we're a democratic society so I can have a discussion without having to take someone on.
Very true , that's why those than don't like the coaching can have their say.
 

bedford

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Same as those of us that don't think Longmire is to blame for everything that is wrong in the world - including terrorism and global warming, can feel free to have their say.
Exactly,
Same as those of us that don't think Longmire is to blame for everything that is wrong in the world - including terrorism and global warming, can feel free to have their say.
but why bring the other stuff is ridiculous .
 

Tedeski

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Players will burst from congestion to be an option of taking posession if they have the desired work rate. This is one area of the game Longmire cannot be held accountable for. When we have the opportunity to spread and work hard to space we don't seem to have the numbers who do it enough. You know my thoughts on Longmire's game style but this deficiency sits firmly at the players feet and wrongly adds to the criticism of Longmire. Players are not instructed to not work hard. On the Contrary you can walk into any change room in Australia before A game and the first keypoint that hits you in the eye on the white board will be work rate. We need to be better at it to be more fluent. Ball movement patterns under instruction from coaching is another case entirely. That's where Horse is accountable.
Fair call WW.
Just my opinion but I believe that often young players can come across as having a poor work rate. It's well known now that it takes 3 full pre seasons to get a good fitness base for any player so I'm hopefull that players like Heeney, Hayward, Paps, Florent & Ronke will explode this season.
 
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It may or may not be relevant that when the players on fox footy were asked their coaches key words at training Keiran Jack just said "Spread !!!"

I'd be very surprised if the coaching staff game plan has changed from spread to stay still at the stoppage.

The difference is that you spread when you have the ball and if you cheat by leaving before the team has won it people see that.

As far as I'm concerned it is the winning of the ball that has been our problem, with or without Mitchell actually.
 

Tedeski

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KJ might be spreading in the Ressies
I like to look at it this way. As with ROK when he was doing his stuff in the ressies in his final year, it will mean that there are younger players doing better than he is, that he is being kept out of the seniors but should his output be far greater than those supposedly knocking down the door, then I see no reason why Kizza shouldn't be playing seniors ahead of some who may have all the potential in the world but aren't displaying it week in week out when fully fit.
Kieren Jack, who has given his all for our club, even under duress, should always be given that opportunity ahead of someone that is still to prove themselves with the out put. Again this is just my way of thinking.
 
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