Coach John Longmire - Part II

[MarkP]

If we play like this and we can't win at home crowd size will quickly drop.

Sydney market hates mediocrity and boring crap.

Club should be concerned.

 

[The King!]

If we play like this and we can't win at home crowd size will quickly drop.

Sydney market hates mediocrity and boring crap.

Club should be concerned.

At the risk of being howled down I think the club truly believe rolling buddy out will be enough for bums on seats and just be competitive

 

[The King!]

The biggest crime horse has committed is running bodies into the ground

All of parker Hanners kennedy jack McVeigh bud etc he never rests, we play them hurt, we play a grinding style, play finals every year, yet has never rested or rotated guys out enough.

Feels like every year there’s talk on here of resting kennedy for instance, don’t recall horse doing it

Jack Hanners and to a lesser extent Jpk are all looking for a fast decline

 

[scaryness]

Feel we are way too regimented and robotic with the ball, which is why we are so defensive. The only guys I can think of that just seem to follow their own instincts and back themselves are Buddy, Papley and Jones.

 

[Mick Oxlong]

Feel we are way too regimented and robotic with the ball, which is why we are so defensive. The only guys I can think of that just seem to follow their own instincts and back themselves are Buddy, Papley and Jones.

Ronke & Parker?

 

[MF]

The biggest crime horse has committed is running bodies into the ground

All of parker Hanners kennedy jack McVeigh bud etc he never rests, we play them hurt, we play a grinding style, play finals every year, yet has never rested or rotated guys out enough.

Feels like every year there’s talk on here of resting kennedy for instance, don’t recall horse doing it

Jack Hanners and to a lesser extent Jpk are all looking for a fast decline

This is a pretty fair criticism. Other clubs seemed to have woken up to the benefit of resting and managing older players throughout the season.

 

[MarkP]

At the risk of being howled down I think the club truly believe rolling buddy out will be enough for bums on seats and just be competitive

Nope I think you are correct.

The model has been get a/the best power forward with media appeal (good/bad/as long as it bleeds) and build from there.

Plugger, BBBH, Tippett and of course the big one in Buddy.

It works to be fair, Sydney loves flash - see The Kings in their heyday, the Tahs when they where up and about Manly, Roosters at various times even Crowe with South but ultimately they all have to keep winning even with the bling or you end up with 10k odd turning on a perfect afternoon or night.

Really worrying signs to be honest.

I have said in the past part of the frustration with this side is the club has obviously decided that making finals is the be all to end all and I get that. I really do. Sort of works against us winning the thing to some degree because safety first and all that but in the Sydney market I understand it.

 

[BloodySwan]

Nope I think you are correct.

The model has been get a/the best power forward with media appeal (good/bad/as long as it bleeds) and build from there.

Plugger, BBBH, Tippett and of course the big one in Buddy.

It works to be fair, Sydney loves flash - see The Kings in their heyday, the Tahs when they where up and about Manly, Roosters at various times even Crowe with South but ultimately they all have to keep winning even with the bling or you end up with 10k odd turning on a perfect afternoon or night.

Really worrying signs to be honest.

I have said in the past part of the frustration with this side is the club has obviously decided that making finals is the be all to end all and I get that. I really do. Sort of works against us winning the thing to some degree because safety first and all that but in the Sydney market I understand it.

The Swans have made it very clear that we do not believe in bottoming out and they are right. I mean should we take gambles on our playing list and we slide backwards this can take years to resolve, just look at Melbourne - from Grand Finalists in 2000 to second last in 2007, last 2008 & 2009 and not making the finals since 2006. Since 2006 the Swans have made 3 grand finals and won a premiership and that's ignoring '05 & '06 .

If you think the approach of making finals while rejuvenating a list frustrating go support Melbourne and find out what real frustration is.

When I hear fans complaining that Horse isn't an amazing coach all I see is a spoilt 16yr old complaining that their parents bought them the wrong car

 

[LukeParkerno1]

The Swans have made it very clear that we do not believe in bottoming out and they are right. I mean should we take gambles on our playing list and we slide backwards this can take years to resolve, just look at Melbourne - from Grand Finalists in 2000 to second last in 2007, last 2008 & 2009 and not making the finals since 2006. Since 2006 the Swans have made 3 grand finals and won a premiership and that's ignoring '05 & '06 .

If you think the approach of making finals while rejuvenating a list frustrating go support Melbourne and find out what real frustration is.

When I hear fans complaining that Horse isn't an amazing coach all I see is a spoilt 16yr old complaining that their parents bought them the wrong car

There is some things I agree with but then I look at Clarkson and think "what would he have done with this Sydney side". I see no wrong in striving to be better than we are, in general I feel this side has under performed and that's despite results.

 

[BloodySwan]

There is some things I agree with but then I look at Clarkson and think "what would he have done with this Sydney side". I see no wrong in striving to be better than we are, in general I feel this side has under performed and that's despite results.

Under-performed? Maybe, but this notion that we're playing safe and our only intent is to make the finals is bull. People hate to admit it but defence wins games, it also wins premierships so why wouldn't Horse build from the back forward? Why wouldn't he pick the team he knows will perform from the players who he knows what they will deliver? He's picking the team to win, not try it's hardest. To me when I hear fans say they'd rather pick a young unproven kid over a proven player they want the Swans to try to win - not actually win. When they say Horse was wrong in telling Florent he should have held the ball up instead of run I'm hearing they want to see something special from the Swans, but they're not interested in winning - that's secondary.

If Clarko had the Swans we might have done better - we may have even done worse! But not every coach is Clarko, we may have ended up with Scott Watters or Neeld.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Under-performed? Maybe, but this notion that we're playing safe and our only intent is to make the finals is bull. People hate to admit it but defence wins games, it also wins premierships so why wouldn't Horse build from the back forward? Why wouldn't he pick the team he knows will perform from the players who he knows what they will deliver? He's picking the team to win, not try it's hardest. To me when I hear fans say they'd rather pick a young unproven kid over a proven player they want the Swans to try to win - not actually win. When they say Horse was wrong in telling Florent he should have held the ball up instead of run I'm hearing they want to see something special from the Swans, but they're not interested in winning - that's secondary.

If Clarko had the Swans we might have done better - we may have even done worse! But not every coach is Clarko, we may have ended up with Scott Watters or Neeld.

I actually think we are playing safe but if you look at our list as a whole, he has to. We literally have maybe 5-6 players that can really kick. You can only go flat out attack if you can pin point passes with elite kicking. We just don't have that. Now this has improved in the last 2 drafts though, we won't see the benefits of this for at least another year or two.

The Florent comment by Longmire was a wrong though and it is probably one Horse regrets. You need players to back themselves, if you coach that out of them you have a bunch of Jordan Foote's and that isn't helping anyone.

The main criticism I have of horse is running players into the ground. If we are going to play this style, our players need to have rests. We had a game against St Kilda, now why did we play Kennedy or Hanners when we were always going to smash them regardless?

 

[BloodySwan]

I actually think we are playing safe but if you look at our list as a whole, he has to. We literally have maybe 5-6 players that can really kick. You can only go flat out attack if you can pin point passes with elite kicking. We just don't have that. Now this has improved in the last 2 drafts though, we won't see the benefits of this for at least another year or two.

The Florent comment by Longmire was a wrong though and it is probably one Horse regrets. You need players to back themselves, if you coach that out of them you have a bunch of Jordan Foote's and that isn't helping anyone.

The main criticism I have of horse is running players into the ground. If we are going to play this style, our players need to have rests. We had a game against St Kilda, now why did we play Kennedy or Hanners when we were always going to smash them regardless?

Because you don't know if you're always going to smash them. Last has beaten first, a worst place team has beaten a better placed one. If his medical staff says their fit, the players say they're fit why would he rest them? The severely injured Doggies beat the Cats just 2 rounds ago. You would have backed the Cats to get on top regardless of their injury woes. St Kilda beat the Demons in the same round who were the "in form team" not that long ago.

So I wouldn't take any chances that we are definitely going to win, once you start resting a few players, have the players expect to win despite our best performances being out and you'll see a very different Swans quickly.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Because you don't know if you're always going to smash them. Last has beaten first, a worst place team has beaten a better placed one. If his medical staff says their fit, the players say they're fit why would he rest them? The severely injured Doggies beat the Cats just 2 rounds ago. You would have backed the Cats to get on top regardless of their injury woes. St Kilda beat the Demons in the same round who were the "in form team" not that long ago.

So I wouldn't take any chances that we are definitely going to win, once you start resting a few players, have the players expect to win despite our best performances being out and you'll see a very different Swans quickly.

If we couldn't beat St Kilda missing at least one of them...and Hanners played and was terrible anyway so even just not playing a half fit Hanners would have been an idea. Horse whilst he has some fantastic qualities is very very stubborn.

 

[The King!]

we may have ended up with Scott Watters or Neeld.

Puts it into perspective!

 

[Punts]

Underachieved this year it looks like going

Heat will be off as they will see it as the injuries cruled us

 

[MarkP]

The Swans have made it very clear that we do not believe in bottoming out and they are right. I mean should we take gambles on our playing list and we slide backwards this can take years to resolve, just look at Melbourne - from Grand Finalists in 2000 to second last in 2007, last 2008 & 2009 and not making the finals since 2006. Since 2006 the Swans have made 3 grand finals and won a premiership and that's ignoring '05 & '06 .

If you think the approach of making finals while rejuvenating a list frustrating go support Melbourne and find out what real frustration is.

When I hear fans complaining that Horse isn't an amazing coach all I see is a spoilt 16yr old complaining that their parents bought them the wrong car

When have I ever complained about the list? Reading comprehension. Get some.

Love to see any post where I suggest we bottom out. It ain't there.

Strawmen, verbal and misdirection.

I have never wanted to do that in fact I have been saying for years Horse is a "good", only good, coach who has a fantastic list.

Attack whatever you want about what I post but leave the fantasy aside please.

 

[MarkP]

Underachieved this year it looks like going

Heat will be off as they will see it as the injuries cruled us

Yep - another year of it.

 

[BloodySwan]

When have I ever complained about the list? Reading comprehension. Get some.

Love to see any post where I suggest we bottom out. It ain't there.

Strawmen, verbal and misdirection.

I have never wanted to do that in fact I have been saying for years Horse is a "good", only good, coach who has a fantastic list.

Attack whatever you want about what I post but leave the fantasy aside please.

If that wasn't your argument then I have no clue what you were trying to say. Maybe you should work on your arguments before attacking the reader on their comprehension skills.

 

[The King!]

rebuilding with a forward on the biggest contract in history

 

[MarkP]

If that wasn't your argument then I have no clue what you were trying to say. Maybe you should work on your arguments before attacking the reader on their comprehension skills.

Nah. You read what you wanted to and then ranted off on a tangent and told me to support Melbourne because I was a kid.

That's all.

Problem is with you.

 

[Tedeski]

Underachieved this year it looks like going

Heat will be off as they will see it as the injuries cruled us

So you're saying it's not the injuries?

 

[Tedeski]

Calm down everyone.

 

[Olian]

rebuilding with a forward on the biggest contract in history

Good to be optimistic but did you expect to be at the top for 9 years?

 

[The King!]

Good to be optimistic but did you expect to be at the top for 9 years?

Honest answer, Given where we were and how we got him, I expected to be maximzing his peak

Unlucky we didn’t get 14 or 16 though

 

[Kennedy Parker]

Just my opinion based on observing the last couple of games especially, I think what separates us from really contending at the moment can be summarised in three main issues, difficulty in transitioning from the back 50 into attack, inconsistent inside midfield performance, and inefficient delivery to forwards inside 50.

Our defensive game in terms of preventing the opposition from scoring, absorbing inside 50s, intercepting etc. is still very much elite and is largely the reason we still win more games than we lose. I think once we have it in defense though we can get boxed in, particularly in SCG games this year. Perhaps we push too many numbers back and we're a bit hesitant and predictable in moving the ball on. It doesn't help that currently we don't have a player like Malceski who can hit a target lace out 50m away. Lloyd is in that role but doesn't have the same penetration. Not entirely sure what the fix is but would like to see us go a bit more direct, we seems to prefer going towards the boundary a lot especially from kick ins.

It seems that our game plan still starts from winning the ball on the inside which was fairly effective a couple years ago when we had excellent inside mid depth with Kennedy, Parker, Hanners still elite, Tom Mitchell, Kieren Jack still a very handy player, Heeney in there as well. It meant that we would win it out of the stoppage more often than not. Nowadays we really only have JPK and Parker as our in and under bull type players with support from Heeney who's very good, Hewett who's handy, Florent rotates through there. Our think our current team is a bit more skillful on the outside than the 2016 one so I'd like to see us make some tweaks to our style to get the game away from stoppages and make it a bit more open - Heeney's a good kick, Florent goes alright, even Cunningham can kick, and Jones has some linebreaking speed so we may be able to make use of to maintain possession and move the ball quickly when the opportunity arises.

The delivery to forwards is perhaps more an execution and decision making issue, hope the coaches address the other two issues and I reckon it'll flow onto better scoring opportunities.