Analysis Health of the list

Yoda_

Brownlow Medallist
May 6, 2007
25,268
11,711
South East Suburbs
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Tottenham Hotspurs, Melbourne Vixen
The more pressing issue is list management info

How Jake Long has managed to survive 5 years on our AFL list is beyond me.
It’s a common theme we see far too often


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eth-dog

Premium Gold
Jan 11, 2007
75,678
34,807
Melbourne
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Coburg Lions, All Boston sides
The more pressing issue is list management info

How Jake Long has managed to survive 5 years on our AFL list is beyond me.
It’s a common theme we see far too often


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Every club has those. Geelong have Cunico, Parsons in a similar boat. West Coast have Mutimer, Nelson. Richmond have Menadue. Collingwood Rupert Wills. David Mackay has played 200 games for Adelaide and I don't think he's as good as Long. Hawthorne had O'Rourke for a while there. Singling out one player is kinda silly
 

BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!

Hall of Famer
Sep 2, 2008
49,417
27,692
Melbourne
AFL Club
Essendon
The more pressing issue is list management info

How Jake Long has managed to survive 5 years on our AFL list is beyond me.
It’s a common theme we see far too often


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We don't turn over the list fast enough imo cant keep hanging onto players like Long thinking the will come good.
 

Knox Harrington

All Australian
May 27, 2016
856
1,077
AFL Club
Essendon
The more pressing issue is list management info

How Jake Long has managed to survive 5 years on our AFL list is beyond me.
It’s a common theme we see far too often


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If his surname was different he'd have been gone much earlier. There I said it


Ariel Steinberg also lasted five years.
 

eth-dog

Premium Gold
Jan 11, 2007
75,678
34,807
Melbourne
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Coburg Lions, All Boston sides
If his surname was different he'd have been gone much earlier. There I said it


Ariel Steinberg also lasted five years.
If his surname was different everybody wouldn't be whinging about his surname. His first 3 years were what you'd expect from a project skinny half forward and people decided that he only got on the list cos of his dad with most people having not seen him play. Should he have been delisted end of last year? Yes. Did he deserve to be on the list before that with what he'd shown? Also yes.
 

Kakkle

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 2, 2012
13,921
21,255
Melbourne/Los Angeles
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Los Angeles Dodgers
If his surname was different everybody wouldn't be whinging about his surname. His first 3 years were what you'd expect from a project skinny half forward and people decided that he only got on the list cos of his dad with most people having not seen him play. Should he have been delisted end of last year? Yes. Did he deserve to be on the list before that with what he'd shown? Also yes.

I guess you could argue the merit of why he was selected, and his history/dad comes into that. How many TAC games did he play? Couldn't have been more than 2. There was little to no exposed form, not a single other club was interested for good reason. You also don't sign project flankers who were taken where they were to 3 year deals with no really standout attribute.


Having said that, I was probably one of the few who didn't mind what he showed at AFL level, he was one of the players in those games who was willing to take the game on (yes, he got caught a few times, but you don't mind that from someone who has played less then 5 games) and get creative. He just never really progressed after his exposure at AFL level, and since the start of his 2018 he's been playing at non-AFL listed VFL standard.
 

yodellinhank

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 22, 2008
10,787
11,379
Geelong
AFL Club
Essendon
I guess you could argue the merit of why he was selected, and his history/dad comes into that. How many TAC games did he play? Couldn't have been more than 2. There was little to no exposed form, not a single other club was interested for good reason. You also don't sign project flankers who were taken where they were to 3 year deals with no really standout attribute.


Having said that, I was probably one of the few who didn't mind what he showed at AFL level, he was one of the players in those games who was willing to take the game on (yes, he got caught a few times, but you don't mind that from someone who has played less then 5 games) and get creative. He just never really progressed after his exposure at AFL level, and since the start of his 2018 he's been playing at non-AFL listed VFL standard.
When he did get the ball in the seniors last year it was often part of a scoring chain. I think his game would translate to AFL more similarly than some of the blokes we've played who dominate 2's footy but are at sea in the 1's.

Having said that, his ability to get to where the ball isn't in the VFL and (from what I've seen) unreliability in front of goal has made him look a less likely player than his cousin was.
 

Yoda_

Brownlow Medallist
May 6, 2007
25,268
11,711
South East Suburbs
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Tottenham Hotspurs, Melbourne Vixen
I guess you could argue the merit of why he was selected, and his history/dad comes into that. How many TAC games did he play? Couldn't have been more than 2. There was little to no exposed form, not a single other club was interested for good reason. You also don't sign project flankers who were taken where they were to 3 year deals with no really standout attribute.


Having said that, I was probably one of the few who didn't mind what he showed at AFL level, he was one of the players in those games who was willing to take the game on (yes, he got caught a few times, but you don't mind that from someone who has played less then 5 games) and get creative. He just never really progressed after his exposure at AFL level, and since the start of his 2018 he's been playing at non-AFL listed VFL standard.
He did play national champs for NT at least.


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Paul_Barnard

Club Legend
Feb 12, 2013
1,120
1,051
AFL Club
Essendon
The health of our list is at crisis point under Justin Crow.
We are now limping to the finish line and with so many unavailable, we will be starting as outsiders in all of our remaining 3 games.
This is really going to impact whether or not we make finals and if we do, being competitive when we get there.
2019 has been riddled with:
  • Soft tissue injuries to seperate players after almost every game.
  • Historical injuries to our best players which are reoccurring.
  • Illness spreading through the group more than in any season prior
  • Late outs every second week
Does anyone have faith in JS and his team given how many forced changes there have been this season?
Discuss.
 

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Mercurial89

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 20, 2011
10,331
12,969
Melbourne
AFL Club
Essendon
The question that needs to be asked is if we did change, would those benefits be seen with this current group in this current window? Are we doing something wrong? Is it what we are doing, or not doing?

The performance and training of AFL footballers is so secretive it's hard to know what we are doing/aren't doing compared to others. It's hard to judge without any information the only thing we can go off is the team performance, we seem to run out games fine so is our overall fitness good but the ability to get through a season bad? Why?

Last time we tried to do something radical, well we all know what happened.

Listening to the Lombardi interview with Tim and Gary they were talking about how we prepare our athletes over here and they were astonished at how we (our industry not club) are seen as gurus on athlete preperations and people to follow. So the people employed will be scouring every professional source globally to ensure we are doing things right.
But our industry already employs world leaders.
There is also no sport on earth to compare what you need.

What are a team like Hawks doing that everyone speaks in awe of their medical department?
What have the lions done with people saying they have the best most well resourced fitness department in the league?

What makes our department seemingly an issue? I kind of want to know those answers before I call for people's jobs.

I'll throw this out there. What if it's not our fitness department but the players not living the professional standards required?

What if the much lauded fitness departments of other clubs aren't that much different but the playing group have complete buy in to a professional lifestyle vs the handful at our club?
(Not saying our players ARE doing less but raising it as a possibility because we don't have any info apart from injuries to go off)
 

JDavey

Premiership Player
Feb 2, 2011
3,536
5,064
Sydney
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Minnesota Vikings, Miami Heat
The health of our list is at crisis point under Justin Crow.
We are now limping to the finish line and with so many unavailable, we will be starting as outsiders in all of our remaining 3 games.
This is really going to impact whether or not we make finals and if we do, being competitive when we get there.
2019 has been riddled with:
  • Soft tissue injuries to seperate players after almost every game.
  • Historical injuries to our best players which are reoccurring.
  • Illness spreading through the group more than in any season prior
  • Late outs every second week
Does anyone have faith in JS and his team given how many forced changes there have been this season?
Discuss.
What? Looking at our current injury list I get...

Non soft tissue injuries:
Best 22
:
Heppell - Growth plate issue in his foot that he was born with (was successfully fixed in his other foot)
Hurley - AC joint from contact
Smith - ACL
Guelfi - MCL
----
Draper - ACL

Soft tissue:
Best 22:

Daniher - Groin
TBC - Calf
Saad - Hamstring
----
Stewart - Groin
Mosquito - Hamstring
Mutch - Hamstring


Missing 7 of our best 22, but only 3 are due to soft tissue injuries. If we didn't get unlucky on Heppell/Hurley/Smith/Guelfi and had Draper instead of Zac Clarke would be be complaining as much?

On the upside there are some players that have overcome consistent soft tissue injuries this year (Laverde, Myers) and there was Gleeson who has successfully returned from a very very serious ankle break.

A lot of injury list comes down to luck. Look at the BL, Richmond, Geelong, WCE - all have avoided multiple LTI injuries in their list in the lead up to finals.

This is also missing the point that when we've been most injury ravaged (~the last two months) we've gone 7-2.
We lost early games with all of our injured 22 still in the side: Smith/Daniher/Heppell/Hurley/TBC/Guelfi/Saad.

Is there room for improvement? Sure, we're no Hawthorn when it comes to injuries, and we should be looking at how we improve and whether Crow is the best person to be managing our injuries but 'crisis point' is a bit of an overreaction.
 

Hird05

Team Captain
Mar 29, 2019
313
287
AFL Club
Essendon
Every team has bad runs. Lions had heaps and now this year none. Our fitness to run out games is good. The speed of the game now will result in guys going down. Get used to it.
 

HirdsTheWord

booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Jun 19, 2014
4,283
4,840
AFL Club
Essendon
its actually pretty cruel that we are able to make it 2 games clear in the 8 at Round 19 only to have injuries end up ******* us.

are we ever going to catch break?

fu** me.......
 

JayJ20

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 28, 2016
9,851
13,594
AFL Club
Essendon
What? Looking at our current injury list I get...

Non soft tissue injuries:
Best 22
:
Heppell - Growth plate issue in his foot that he was born with (was successfully fixed in his other foot)
Hurley - AC joint from contact
Smith - ACL
Guelfi - MCL
----
Draper - ACL

Soft tissue:
Best 22:

Daniher - Groin
TBC - Calf
Saad - Hamstring
----
Stewart - Groin
Mosquito - Hamstring
Mutch - Hamstring


Missing 7 of our best 22, but only 3 are due to soft tissue injuries. If we didn't get unlucky on Heppell/Hurley/Smith/Guelfi and had Draper instead of Zac Clarke would be be complaining as much?

On the upside there are some players that have overcome consistent soft tissue injuries this year (Laverde, Myers) and there was Gleeson who has successfully returned from a very very serious ankle break.

A lot of injury list comes down to luck. Look at the BL, Richmond, Geelong, WCE - all have avoided multiple LTI injuries in their list in the lead up to finals.

This is also missing the point that when we've been most injury ravaged (~the last two months) we've gone 7-2.
We lost early games with all of our injured 22 still in the side: Smith/Daniher/Heppell/Hurley/TBC/Guelfi/Saad.

Is there room for improvement? Sure, we're no Hawthorn when it comes to injuries, and we should be looking at how we improve and whether Crow is the best person to be managing our injuries but 'crisis point' is a bit of an overreaction.
Hooker was injured, Fantasia was injured, Laverde was injured, Shiel was injured, Stringer was injured, Ambrose was injured. All from soft tissue injuries.

That’s quite significant.
 

DapperDon

Waiting for Essendon to arrive
Oct 4, 2006
29,939
44,874
AFL Club
Essendon
Every team has bad runs. Lions had heaps and now this year none. Our fitness to run out games is good. The speed of the game now will result in guys going down. Get used to it.
Do you think the Lions changed anything, or are soft tissue injuries just luck of the draw?
 

Hird05

Team Captain
Mar 29, 2019
313
287
AFL Club
Essendon
Do you think the Lions changed anything, or are soft tissue injuries just luck of the draw?
I doubt they made massive changes over one off season but who knows. I reckon most clubs have very professional operations now. They were saying on Sen yesterday our fitness departments are considered world class. I'd be putting luck, speed of the game and hardness of the grounds before ineptitude of the staff personally.
 

Donakebab

Premium Platinum
May 18, 2009
28,322
34,090
Canberra
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Detroit Red Wings
I think there are two things which have saved Crow up until now, both of which are typical Essendon.

- Strong family ties to the club.
- Seen to have 'earned' his position having worked his way through the ranks from the VFL.

Surely he has worn out both of these. A full clean out of fitness and medical staff is in order. How many are still around from the dark days?
 

Donakebab

Premium Platinum
May 18, 2009
28,322
34,090
Canberra
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Detroit Red Wings
What? Looking at our current injury list I get...

Non soft tissue injuries:
Best 22
:
Heppell - Growth plate issue in his foot that he was born with (was successfully fixed in his other foot)
Hurley - AC joint from contact
Smith - ACL
Guelfi - MCL
----
Draper - ACL

Soft tissue:
Best 22:

Daniher - Groin
TBC - Calf
Saad - Hamstring
----
Stewart - Groin
Mosquito - Hamstring
Mutch - Hamstring


Missing 7 of our best 22, but only 3 are due to soft tissue injuries. If we didn't get unlucky on Heppell/Hurley/Smith/Guelfi and had Draper instead of Zac Clarke would be be complaining as much?

On the upside there are some players that have overcome consistent soft tissue injuries this year (Laverde, Myers) and there was Gleeson who has successfully returned from a very very serious ankle break.

A lot of injury list comes down to luck. Look at the BL, Richmond, Geelong, WCE - all have avoided multiple LTI injuries in their list in the lead up to finals.

This is also missing the point that when we've been most injury ravaged (~the last two months) we've gone 7-2.
We lost early games with all of our injured 22 still in the side: Smith/Daniher/Heppell/Hurley/TBC/Guelfi/Saad.

Is there room for improvement? Sure, we're no Hawthorn when it comes to injuries, and we should be looking at how we improve and whether Crow is the best person to be managing our injuries but 'crisis point' is a bit of an overreaction.
Heppell is mismanagement. The plate has given him problems before including last year, why not just fuse it in the off season instead of the wait and see.

Smith is mismanagement. It wasn't an ACL, it was two different issues with his knee, neither of them a new surprise. His trochlear legions had occurred before and his PCL already required surgery. Should have just got them done rather than hoping he could hobble out the season.
 
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