Analysis Help for Schache and Boyd?

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I want your opinions guys, I know some of you are gonna bag me and call me a muppet, I don’t care. But, I’m a very passionate supporter of our club, and I’m not afraid to say it as it is. The question that I want to ask, and it shits me that this doesn’t happen is this. We have no.1 and no.2 draft pick, key tall forwards at the club. One, Boyd has had physical and mental health issues holding him back, Schache also, but why don’t we employ specialist coaches or mentors say a Wayne Carey, Mathew Lloyd or Brereton to show these guys how it’s done? I know I’ve said this before, but Jesus Christ. The first time in my time, nearly 40 years of following the Dogs, we’ve got two big key forwards who were highly rated, we don’t get them any extra help. Now, I don’t want to hear sarcasm or bullshit responses. Please be half decent with your opinions. Cheers
 

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#3
I want your opinions guys, I know some of you are gonna bag me and call me a muppet, I don’t care. But, I’m a very passionate supporter of our club, and I’m not afraid to say it as it is. The question that I want to ask, and it shits me that this doesn’t happen is this. We have no.1 and no.2 draft pick, key tall forwards at the club. One, Boyd has had physical and mental health issues holding him back, Schache also, but why don’t we employ specialist coaches or mentors say a Wayne Carey, Mathew Lloyd or Brereton to show these guys how it’s done? I know I’ve said this before, but Jesus Christ. The first time in my time, nearly 40 years of following the Dogs, we’ve got two big key forwards who were highly rated, we don’t get them any extra help. Now, I don’t want to hear sarcasm or bullshit responses. Please be half decent with your opinions. Cheers
Not sure you can coach the between the ears stuff. Clearly both players have some issues when it comes to aggression/pressure. Being an AFL forward is a tough game and I question how much either wants it. In saying that I don’t know either bloke so could be way off.
Purely from a technical point of view a specialist coach makes sense. I’m amazed that we haven’t been able to teach Toyd how to mark more effectively in his time at the club. Schache seems to be about application more than his technique.
 

Johnny_Dogg4

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#4
im not sure we dont, ive never understood why we didnt tom boyd help, considering we invested major on him

or at the very least tom should be getting private lessons from someone like those ^. he has the $$ to afterall if he wants to improve.
 

Dogs Rule

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#6
The sad part is that we've said Toyd rip a game apart (the Grand Final) so he can do it, but whether he can reach that level again is anyone's guess.

Schache, I don't know. It's about motivation I think and how much he really wants it.
 

ScragCity

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#7
I want your opinions guys, I know some of you are gonna bag me and call me a muppet, I don’t care. But, I’m a very passionate supporter of our club, and I’m not afraid to say it as it is. The question that I want to ask, and it shits me that this doesn’t happen is this. We have no.1 and no.2 draft pick, key tall forwards at the club. One, Boyd has had physical and mental health issues holding him back, Schache also, but why don’t we employ specialist coaches or mentors say a Wayne Carey, Mathew Lloyd or Brereton to show these guys how it’s done? I know I’ve said this before, but Jesus Christ. The first time in my time, nearly 40 years of following the Dogs, we’ve got two big key forwards who were highly rated, we don’t get them any extra help. Now, I don’t want to hear sarcasm or bullshit responses. Please be half decent with your opinions. Cheers
Both were highly rated as juniors but in hindsight you'd say it was a mistake to rate them highly. Both have proven to be below average. Move 'em on and try again.
 
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The sad part is that we've said Toyd rip a game apart (the Grand Final) so he can do it, but whether he can reach that level again is anyone's guess.

Schache, I don't know. It's about motivation I think and how much he really wants it.
Yeah, but it can’t hurt to try things out and get them some extra mentoring. If you have a Ferrari and a Lamborghini, and they’re not working well, do you just let them rot in the garage? Or do you take them to a specialist to get them fixed?
 
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Both were highly rated as juniors but in hindsight you'd say it was a mistake to rate them highly. Both have proven to be below average. Move 'em on and try again.
But we do that Scrag, and their value drops to basically nothing. I think we’re better off keeping both and try to get them to come good. How many years did we persist with Eagleton and Shaun Higgins?
 

Yojimbo

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#11
Recruiting 101: Is he good because he is good, or is he good because he is big.

Collingwood have Mason Cox and Brody Mihocek as their main KPF's, but in reality
they are islands in the stream and their main forwards are Jordan DeGoey,
Jaidyn Stephenson, Will Hoskin-Elliott, Jamie Elliott and Josh Thomas plus a solid
contribution from their midfielders. This is multiple avenues a variety of delivery
options and that old chestnut run and carry.

You cannot teach tall forwards to play they must fit in and have a roll in the team
that is clearly known to the players up the ground. Kick it to Aaron or kick it to
Josh or kick it to Tom is not a forward structure. Having leading alleys that are
not clogged up with other players and some separation to avoid double teams is
a forward structure much in the same way you don't want all the mids a metre
from the ball at the same time (The phone box).

Tom Boyd has shown me nothing as a forward. Josh Schache is more Mary
Poppins than Conan the Barbarian. Aaron Naughton has great attributes at
either end. We have to play the long game with Boyd and Schache and hope
for the best, the number next to your name means nothing, Chris Grant was
pick 105.
 

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#14
Agreed, it is crazy we have not brought someone in to help. At least give it s try. It may also help others with goal kicking. Unfortunately Bevo is all knowing and knows what is required by all players. Both can still make it if they receive support but more importantly a decent game plan.
 

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#15
Schache isn't a key forward in the conventional sense, if he makes it it'll be as a 200cm wingman/half-forward (poor man's Westoff if we're lucky). He just doesn't have the physical strength or is combativity to go against the likes of Jeremy McGovern, Steven May or Daniel Talia on the reg

Boyd I don't think would mesh well personality wise with a lot of the types of people you mentioned, Barry Hall included (pretty sure he worked with Brereton at GWS and was part of the reason he hated it there). And tbh I think he has just missed way too much football to have any hope of being anything more than a useful but plodding ruck/foward (Casboult-esque) who you would ideally be looking to improve upon in your best 22.

Far too much is made of draft position (don't feel like your being attacked, for a long time I thought it was king as well). It is no more than a time capsule of rankings. A million different factors both positive and negative can make them look foolish in hindsight. Nothing is more certain in life than both expert opinions and the game itself changing.

I will just be thankful that we got that one game of Boyd's that was brilliant.

What I'm really more interested in is that we start to play (both in terms of ball use and structure) in way that is going to benefit the likes of Naughton, Gowers (I might be speaking to the wrong audience on the wrong week, but I think he is still a very interesting package) and Schache. I am so sick of seeing massive eight man packs in our forward line and everyone running to the same spot.
 
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#20
Honestly, would it matter?

We could have Lloyd and Carey in their primes themselves in the forward line and they'd struggle to kick half the goals they did in their careers with our delivery and forward system.

The amount of separation opposition forwards can get on our defenders compared to what ours do is absolute chalk and cheese, then even if we do we can't hit a target to save our lives.
 
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#22
True, but then the club should say that and don’t make up injuries.

Regardless misses far too many games for one reason or another, if he doesn’t get on field this year for significant games I’d be asking him to retire
2015: Fully fit
2016: Missed 9 games, but suspended for 3 of those due to the Cordy incident? Shoulder the other games.
2017: Played every game until his mental health issue. Played VFL finals after the afl side didn't qualify.
2018: Calf cost him late in the preseason and played vfl the first 4 games to build fitness, then his back until now.

So he's really only had the one major injury, and a 4 week calf injury, and a 6 week shoulder injury. I don't think he's that injury prone (probably more injuries than average, but nothing insane. He's just not been able to string together a couple of years straight which he really needs. Hopefully he can come back into the side in 3-4 weeks and play a really strong 12-14 games which will put him in good shape for next year.
 
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#23
I think we have invested too much on these two to let them go. We should try to get them a mentor and some specialist training. A mentoring relationship is a very personal one so my advice to the club if they are lurking is to let the players find their own. We would get nothing for them now so best to put in the effort.
 
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#24
I think we have invested too much on these two to let them go. We should try to get them a mentor and some specialist training. A mentoring relationship is a very personal one so my advice to the club if they are lurking is to let the players find their own. We would get nothing for them now so best to put in the effort.
Wasn’t Cloke involved with Schache is some way early in his career? I may have completely made that up.
 
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#25
In 3 years time there is going to be a lot of egg on peoples faces on the BF board. Just have to persist and hope the mental health issues are addressed. I’m very confident on both. Plugger and Carey would struggle in our forward line, let alone 2 young kids who often play without support against multiple defenders going for the ball. I lost count the number of times Boyd would go for a mark with 2-3 defenders on him. Blame it on our predictable bomb it long approach to the big forward. Our forward craft is atrocious. Just don’t create space to allow Boyd enough one on one...as his body matures and his core body strength increases he will be a nightmare to match up on. Bookmark this!!
 
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