Herald sun investigation into dees tanking saga

sr36

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It's not that Melbourne tanked, it's that they did it incompetently. Collingwood and Hawthorn tanked magnificently, back when you got a priority pick for less than 5 season wins, after slow starts to the year, the two clubs switched to youth and had a heap of blokes go and have surgery and wound up selecting Pendlebury and Franklin with their bonus picks. Woo Hoo. Here's to effective tanking.
 

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Saucery

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I was and am still surprised that the Victorian commission for gambling didn't at least investigate the consequences and whether or not it amounted to game fixing. Guess the AFL stared the minister down. Feel sorry for the players, the members who brought memberships under false pretences and the gamblers who blew their hard earned on a rigged outcome.
 

100action

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Not everybody is NEET and sits in front of their computer all day mate.

Hogan was secured using Picks 3 and 14. Pick 14 was a Scully compensation pick.

To put further salt in the wounds of a draft that has been butchered to pieces, currency leftover from Toumpas was used to partially secure the Clayton Oliver/Weideman picks - even worse.

So all in all, Melbourne is still severely benefiting from tanking.

500k for May, Oliver, Weideman? yes please AFL.
 

Frank Grimes

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Feel sorry for the players, the members who brought memberships under false pretences and the gamblers who blew their hard earned on a rigged outcome.
Most of the Melbourne supporters were actually supporting their club to lose. They were singing the Richmond club song after the game. Even Gary Lyon was publicly saying that the club would be irresponsible in winning games at that time.

There were very few Melbourne supporters who were saying they were really hoping for a win back then because they knew they'd lose the early pick.

While they didn't have an active role in the clubs decision, they were certainly supporting it.
 

SterlingArcher

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Herald Sun probably doing it before the match to put Melbourne off before their game with Essendon. Essendon is Herald Scums love child

Wouldn't be surprised

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This is actually the sort of journalism we should want though. Hold the AFL accountable. Cover ups are not an option. ******* scared of their betting stakeholders ffs. It's as much directed at the AFL covering it up and saying the Dees didn't set out to lose games, even though the coach and 7 others admitted that it had, as it is the Dees. They are hardly going to go rabidly after Dean Bailey and Jim Stynes are they? Mark it down, they are targeting the AFL the headline is even literally about a cover-up. I`d be surprised if the Herald Sun goes “oh well they've got Jonesy still, better distract him with the tanking days!”. To write this off as simply pro-Essendon conspiracy is moronic, ignores the shit way the AFL handled it. Just like with Essendon, there is doubt over every investigation the AFL has undertaken because of this.
 

Saucery

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Most of the Melbourne supporters were actually supporting their club to lose. They were singing the Richmond club song after the game. Even Gary Lyon was publicly saying that the club would be irresponsible in winning games at that time.

There were very few Melbourne supporters who were saying they were really hoping for a win back then because they knew they'd lose the early pick.

While they didn't have an active role in the clubs decision, they were certainly supporting it.
Hearsay I say
 

iameviljez

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Most of the Melbourne supporters were actually supporting their club to lose. They were singing the Richmond club song after the game. Even Gary Lyon was publicly saying that the club would be irresponsible in winning games at that time.

There were very few Melbourne supporters who were saying they were really hoping for a win back then because they knew they'd lose the early pick.
Why wouldn't you?

It reminds me somewhat of an infamous game in the FIFA World Cup in 1982, where West Germany and Austria played off. A 1 or 2-goal result to Germany would see both sides through to the quarter-finals, as the other game in their group had been played 24 hours before so they knew exactly what the situation was.

Germany scored early, and both sides then sat back and did nothing. Like, even more nothing than usual soccer.

And what happened? FIFA didn't kick them out for collusion (they should have), but did at least recognise they had a system that incentivised that behaviour. Now all final-round matches are played at once.
 

100action

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To much bemusement, I've been reading lots of posts from neutrals and Melbourne supporters that take the following lines:
  1. Melbourne has suffered enough
  2. All the draft picks associated with tanking are gone!
  3. All the people employed
  4. things from 9 years ago shouldn't be brought up again!
  5. 500k is adequate penalty!
Well guess what?, Melbourne is still benefiting immensely from tanking with several players on their list secured through the currency acquired from tanking. Lets put an end to this once and for all:
  1. Melbourne tanked the infamous Scully cup in Round 18 2009 making many baffling key positional changes to throw the match. The match was decided after the siren by a Jordan McMahon kick. This secured Melbourne a pre-first round pick (i.e. Pick No.1) which was used on Tom Scully.
  2. Scully was signed by GWS and Melbourne was awarded Picks 4 and 14.
  3. Pick 14 (along with Pick 4) was used to secure Jesse Hogan via the mini-draft. Hogan was then traded for Steven May, Kade Koladashnij and Tom Sparrow.
  4. Toumpas (and Howe) was traded for Picks 29, 50 and Ben Kennedy. Pick 29 was then used as part of packages to secure the draft picks for Clayton Oliver and Sam Weideman.
The ill-gotten gains of the proven tanking debacle has essentially left Melbourne a legacy of 5 players: Clayton Oliver, Steven May, Kade Koladashnij, Sam Weideman and Tom Sparrow.

I reiterate, Melbourne's self inflicted poor performance and failure to capitalise on the tanking is not:
  1. Justification for their manifestly inadequate punishment; nor
  2. An argument against tanking.
Can any neutral honestly say the AFL investigation of Melbourne has deterred tanking? Melbourne was fined $500k (and given an interest free loan from the AFL down the track to pay this back lmfao when the AFL appointed Peter Jackson administrated the club). As a club, would you pay $500k to have Clayton Oliver, Steven May, KK, Sam Weideman and Tom Sparrow on your list?

To make matters worse, Geelong and Hawthorn supporters should be extremely furious in light of the recent revelations given they were bundled out of the finals by starring performances from Clayton Oliver and Sam Weideman (i.e. the juicy fruits of tanking).

The only way the AFL can set this right is to dock draft points equivalent to the compensation achieved from tanking with a penalty on top (i.e. loss of points worth Pick 1 + 50% loading penalty).
 

100action

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For what its worth, I obviously don't think the AFL will do anything in light of the revelations.

The revelations were simply the outcomes of their initial findings which they intentionally decided to sweep under the carpet to minimise negative news, and assist in future TV deals with stable minnow clubs.
 

Brend81

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So you want the club to be penalised for something that happened a decade ago, might aswell punish Collingwood, hawthorn and Carlton amongst other teams, everyone currently at the club has nothing to do with what happened so it’s laughable to think that they should now be punished
 

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Blue1980

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Most of the Melbourne supporters were actually supporting their club to lose. They were singing the Richmond club song after the game. Even Gary Lyon was publicly saying that the club would be irresponsible in winning games at that time.

There were very few Melbourne supporters who were saying they were really hoping for a win back then because they knew they'd lose the early pick.

While they didn't have an active role in the clubs decision, they were certainly supporting it.
Yes people often talk of tanking like we are only uncovering the issues now.

I remember from 2005 or so onwards everyone was onto clubs doing it. By 2009 99.9% of football fans would of known Melbourne were ensuring they stayed at no more than 4 wins.

I’m sure you will find evidence of this in old big footy posts from that time.

Just seems a weird narrative people pull now that we somehow know better now, we knew back then!
 

joy division

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If Geelong performance enhanced their way to the 2009 flag (not saying they did) would you rest on it because it was a decade ago?
 

Sausages

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Yeah, you can't retrospectively enact punishment in this fashion, there is no precedent for it and it would in turn establish a precedent itself - one that would become a millstone around the neck of the league as flags could ultimately then be won in court as opposed to on the field.
 

fnerd

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Considering the way they ve started the season and if they don’t win tonight any “benefits” they got from it are appearing short lived.

The long lasting cultural issues from that period may still be affecting them.
I’m sure that’s a bigger issue for the club atm and is just desserts for their ignorance and stupidity .
Karmas all ready done that so No point enacting retrospective punishment.

The curse of Cameron schwab lives on.

The afl new the score at the time anyway. They “had to” protect the brand /vested interests(betting agencies ) at all costs.
 

Dark Avenger

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To much bemusement, I've been reading lots of posts from neutrals and Melbourne supporters that take the following lines:
  1. Melbourne has suffered enough
  2. All the draft picks associated with tanking are gone!
  3. All the people employed
  4. things from 9 years ago shouldn't be brought up again!
  5. 500k is adequate penalty!
Well guess what?, Melbourne is still benefiting immensely from tanking with several players on their list secured through the currency acquired from tanking. Lets put an end to this once and for all:
  1. Melbourne tanked the infamous Scully cup in Round 18 2009 making many baffling key positional changes to throw the match. The match was decided after the siren by a Jordan McMahon kick. This secured Melbourne a pre-first round pick (i.e. Pick No.1) which was used on Tom Scully.
  2. Scully was signed by GWS and Melbourne was awarded Picks 4 and 14.
  3. Pick 14 (along with Pick 4) was used to secure Jesse Hogan via the mini-draft. Hogan was then traded for Steven May, Kade Koladashnij and Tom Sparrow.
  4. Toumpas (and Howe) was traded for Picks 29, 50 and Ben Kennedy. Pick 29 was then used as part of packages to secure the draft picks for Clayton Oliver and Sam Weideman.
The ill-gotten gains of the proven tanking debacle has essentially left Melbourne a legacy of 5 players: Clayton Oliver, Steven May, Kade Koladashnij, Sam Weideman and Tom Sparrow.

I reiterate, Melbourne's self inflicted poor performance and failure to capitalise on the tanking is not:
  1. Justification for their manifestly inadequate punishment; nor
  2. An argument against tanking.
Can any neutral honestly say the AFL investigation of Melbourne has deterred tanking? Melbourne was fined $500k (and given an interest free loan from the AFL down the track to pay this back lmfao when the AFL appointed Peter Jackson administrated the club). As a club, would you pay $500k to have Clayton Oliver, Steven May, KK, Sam Weideman and Tom Sparrow on your list?

To make matters worse, Geelong and Hawthorn supporters should be extremely furious in light of the recent revelations given they were bundled out of the finals by starring performances from Clayton Oliver and Sam Weideman (i.e. the juicy fruits of tanking).

The only way the AFL can set this right is to dock draft points equivalent to the compensation achieved from tanking with a penalty on top (i.e. loss of points worth Pick 1 + 50% loading penalty).
Yes the all important pick 29 landed us Oliver & Weideman. Pretty sure that pick wasn't the be all & end all of landing both players.
 

Whatname

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What about every other club????

Melbourne are no Robinson Crusoe here.

I know my own club Freo definitely tanked 99-01.

Melbourne were just unlucky they had bitchy ex players who went to the media.
 

CH Jazz

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Honestly, how is this news. Slobbo and his mates must be gagging for a headline. Zero new information. The AFL are corrupt as ****. Time to move on.
 

caspian

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Can anyone give us a bit of a rundown on the Kruezer cup, seeing as it's vaguely related? Most stuff about it on google seems to be behind the paywall. I know the very general gist of it, but any extra colour, anecdotes about tactics of the day etc would be much appreciated.

I find the whole tanking stuff interesting, yes it's old news, but just because something happened a decade ago doesn't mean it's instantly super boring. For example- all of history
 

ShadeyP

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Doesn't seem to be an investigation at all, really. Just a public telling of what the AFL uncovered. Doesn't bother me as a Dees fan too much, given this was all covered seven years ago and the Dees copped a whack for ('not doing') it, but it seems pretty bloody cruel to Dean Bailey's family to have him and the story that took over his final years back in the papers - even if it puts him in a favourable light.
Yep , well said .... and Dean Bailey and his family suffered the ultimate for it ... what happened to him was DISGUSTING !!!
 

Swarhily

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The AFL once again proved itself to be a corrupt and morally bankrupt competition when this fiasco occurred. Also love how they insult the intelligence of supporters by fining MFC but denying any tanking was done. All of this has been discussed ad nauseam though and nothing will be come of it.
 
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