Herald Sun top 25 players of the past 50 years

[Blind Turn]

Decent list but I think Franklin is too high.

I had Franklin 25th until recently. He has risen in my estimates more than any other player in the past year other than Dangerfield and Fyfe. I think it's because I'm appreciating the fact that he's a pretty special player with unique attributes and he's managed to perform at a very high level with those attributes for many years. Upon reflection, once he's retired, there will be no doubt he was in the vicinity of freakish players like Daicos, Blight, and Quinlan. As I said above, his marking is not freakishly good which keeps him from being in the top bracket of players.

 

[footyfan1978]

For various reasons pre West coast each state hate champion footballers

Then you look at players pre AFL and they sort of don't compare to the AFL system due to the fact they are full time players and simply can't compare.

I do not look that way.
I like champion footballers and do not care what state they from. Maurice Rioli absolute marvel from NT, Hunter absolute champion from WA. Jesaulenko superstar from ACT. Bradley a gun from SA. Kelly a gun from NSW. Royce Hart a gun from Tasmania. Judd a gun from Victoria.

Lot of dumb Marty assumptions there in the quotes with your own conclusions based on dumb assumptions. Circular stupidity. Sort of.....

 

[HairyO]

Not one Geelong supporter would take Bartel over Scarlett. Many rate Scarlett better than Ablett Jnr. I don't but many do.

I think structurally was more important to the team.

Plenty of 4 and 5 time Premiership players missing from lists here...

That said I wouldnt know how to do a straight top 25. Id have to do top 2 to 4 for each of tall forward, small forward, tall back, small back, ruck, inside mid, outside mid, utility/swing.

Round that out to 25.

 

[andrew coombs]

There's also this thing called presence which I believe Brereton had in spades. Of course the others did too but Derm made others perform at a higher level and made things happen around him. It's possible I have overrated him, like anything with a subjective inevitability, but when you played Hawthorn in the mid to late 80s he was more influential than Dunstall.

He did have a great presence, even as a young man. Before his body gave out on him Derm was a beast of an athlete who could run his usually bigger opponents into the ground. He played in an era of gladiatorial contests between key position players and as a 6.2' CHF almost always had to concede size to his opponents. Inevitably his body failed to withstand the battering and he degenerated physically quickly once he turned 28. I found it tough to watch this once great player in the last couple of years of his career. History is filled with examples of sporting superstars who finish up shadows of their former glory. When I remember Derm as a footballer it is the 82-89 period, when he was a colossal force in the VFL that I use as a reference when deciding his place in a list of great players. As an Essendon fan who saw that electric era when our two tribes went to war in huge games on a regular basis I am not surprised you rate Dermott highly. I have similar memories of some of those great Bomber champs, particularly blokes like Daniher, Watson and the best of the lot, Simon Madden. As the best ruckman I have seen he would clearly be in any list of top 50 players that I was compiling.

 

[footyfan1978]

He did have a great presence, even as a young man. Before his body gave out on him Derm was a beast of an athlete who could run his usually bigger opponents into the ground. He played in an era of gladiatorial contests between key position players and as a 6.2' CHF almost always had to concede size to his opponents. Inevitably his body failed to withstand the battering and he degenerated physically quickly once he turned 28. I found it tough to watch this once great player in the last couple of years of his career. History is filled with examples of sporting superstars who finish up shadows of their former glory. When I remember Derm as a footballer it is the 82-89 period, when he was a colossal force in the VFL that I use as a reference when deciding his place in a list of great players. As an Essendon fan who saw that electric era when our two tribes went to war in huge games on a regular basis I am not surprised you rate Dermott highly. I have similar memories of some of those great Bomber champs, particularly blokes like Daniher, Watson and the best of the lot, Simon Madden. As the best ruckman I have seen he would clearly be in any list of top 50 players that I was compiling.

I think Dermy was in an era we actually did not have many gun centre half forwards. We had the era of gun full forwards then but centre half forwards not so much. So he was best of that time but since we had Kernahan, Chris Grant, Carey, Brown and Reiwoldt that all superior in my eyes. Pavlich too.
Hird played CHF a bit too. A little small like Dermy but did it, more classy than the Derm.

 

[Iamcarlton]

Nah. Only averages just over 3 goals a game as the number one key forward in his team doesn't put him in the top 5. He has already played as much games as Ablett senior and well short of his goals despite being more of a key forward then he was. Franklin will be a top twenty player but his poor contested marking has prevented him from reaching top five.

Totally agree with this franklin has also played in two super sides in hawthorn and sydney . With his athleticìsm and the amount of entries into fwd 50 going his way in particular at hawthorn just over 3 goals a game is nothing special at all .
He has generally been a poor contested mark throughout his career id take Lockett easily over Franklin . But still such an exciting player to watch franklin . For his height so athletic .

 

[Iamcarlton]

Yeah, i think Judd was at his best at West Coast, i rate Fyfe and Danger better than Judd and both have at least 5 or 6 seasons left to prove it! Going to Carlton hurts Judd IMO.

Fyfe is outstanding and clearly the next best in the competition after jr. Dangerfield was the prime reason why Geelong went from sliding to 10th in 2015 back to a top 4 position in 2016. It was one of the best individual efforts in recent memory, his consistency was extraordinary.

Judd 6× all australian 4 of those 6 AA whilst at carlton .
Brownlow medal at both clubs .
2x b+f at west coast 3x b+f at carlton
2X MVP 1 at both clubs .
If anything i feel he enhanced his reputation by becoming a mostly inside player and carrying a club for a number of seasons on his back with not the support he had in the middle at west coast .

 

[marty36]

I do not look that way.
I like champion footballers and do not care what state they from. Maurice Rioli absolute marvel from NT, Hunter absolute champion from WA. Jesaulenko superstar from ACT. Bradley a gun from SA. Kelly a gun from NSW. Royce Hart a gun from Tasmania. Judd a gun from Victoria.

Lot of dumb Marty assumptions there in the quotes with your own conclusions based on dumb assumptions. Circular stupidity. Sort of.....

Bradley didn't compare to Robran not in the same sentence nor was Kernahan

 

[andrew coombs]

I think Dermy was in an era we actually did not have many gun centre half forwards. We had the era of gun full forwards then but centre half forwards not so much. So he was best of that time but since we had Kernahan, Chris Grant, Carey, Brown and Reiwoldt that all superior in my eyes. Pavlich too.
Hird played CHF a bit too. A little small like Dermy but did it, more classy than the Derm.[/

Tourn it

I think Dermy was in an era we actually did not have many gun centre half forwards. We had the era of gun full forwards then but centre half forwards not so much. So he was best of that time but since we had Kernahan, Chris Grant, Carey, Brown and Reiwoldt that all superior in my eyes. Pavlich too.
Hird played CHF a bit too. A little small like Dermy but did it, more classy than the Derm.

I would challenge your assertion about your named players being superior to Brereton as a CHF. Kernahan spent as much time during his career playing out of the goal square as at CHF and when he did play up the ground his output was no better than Derms by any measure. Grant was a top player but to describe him as a classic CHF is just wrong, he played some of his best footy at CHB. I can't have him as a better CHF then Brereton. Brown WAS a true exponent of the position and like Derm ended up playing a physical price for it. He was a real warrior and big game player early in his career ( when his club played big games ) but whether his output was superior to Breretons is highly disputable. Pavlich didn't play CHF anywhere near enough to even be in the argument. Carey is the best CHF in the history of the game so absolutely no argument there.

 

[Power Raid]

I'm gonna call bias here. Swan may have been damaging at his peak, but he has never had the all-round game that Ablett had (and can hopefully still get back to). Also, as someone else pointed out, his peak lasted nowhere near as long as Judd/Ablett/Goodes.

I loved watching swan but Judd, Ablett and Goodes were in a different league. I think speed stands out along with the ability to mark overhead.

The ability to stand still in traffic like Sam Mitchell and Diesel is just an amazing talent and thus deserve similar recognition.

 

[Listclogger]

Where's Stephen Kernahan?

Probably on the golf course at Kew with Bradley

 

[footyfan1978]

I would challenge your assertion about your named players being superior to Brereton as a CHF.

That's cool. That is why we have different opinions and threads to listen to our different views. I like your passionate view. Do not agree with all of it but I think on second thoughts you are probably right on Pavlich. Probably rate Dermy just above him on second thoughts and certainly Derm did play more CHF for longer than some of these guys that played it in a taller, more powerful way. Sticks did tend to gravitate more towards goal square in his later years than roaming further up ground when he was younger as the outstanding CHF he was. Dermy would have not been able to do that and hence he faded away pretty quickly as a player once he no longer could do the same work rate at CHF. Still take Sticks, Nick Roo and Brown ahead of him in a heartbeat. Carey above them all. These other more talented CHF's could rework their role as key forwards and still be stars for longer. No shame in Derm being next level down. He was wonderful in his day.

 

[sebastian1812]

Surely Simon Black should be in there?

 

[A Swallow]

Rereading this I'm just as baffled as the first time; by Malthouse's rankings, but also at people wanting Dangerfield in the list. People seem to recall the last 3-4 years of football at a time, and that's it. He's not even close.

 

[Vdubs]

Tim Watson is the player that I rate much more than he is being given credit for. In 84/85 he was our one superstar midfielder and talismanic igniter. He was the best mid in the first half of the 80s and the player the opposition most needed to quell. After a big knee inj in 86 he came back to be a Brownlow favourite in 89 and compared with Ablett for best player in the comp at the time. He was explosive like Judd but a better kick and goal kicker. Madden was my favourite player as a kid but I concede that Timmy was our best. And most Essendon people only rate Hird ahead of him in the last 50 years.

My list is based on who I've seen. Matthews would probably be first or second if I'd seen his midfield dominance in the 70s.

25/ Goodes
24/ Roos
23/ McLeod
22/ Matera
21/ R Harvey
20/ Riewoldt
19/ Brereton
18/ Kernahan
17/ Buckley
16/ Judd
15/ Daicos
14/ Blight
13/ Franklin
12/ Quinlan
11/ S Madden
10/ Williams
9/ T Watson
8/ Voss
7/ Hird
6/ Dunstall
5/ Lockett
4/ Matthews
3/ Ablett Jr
2/ Carey
1/ Ablett Sr - Malthouse is a fool. Sure, there are many aspects that make a great player such as leadership, discipline, finals performances, teamwork/bringing others into the game, but Ablett could do things nobody could do, or probably ever will be able to do again. He is the best player I have seen.

Great list.
Heard Tim Watson on SEN and he virtually had your top 5 in order.

 

[stax on the mull]

Malthouse would be the only one who would be old enough to have seen 50 years of Football, being in his teens when the period begins but there's likely a bit of senility factor at the other end, while the others probably suffer from groupthink mentality.

Tend to think that people have strong affiliations to players that made the game appealing to them when they first began watching and forming opinions of their own (often teenage years) and its hard to make a retrospective overview that's not weighted with those sentimental memories.

When would people like Jon Ralph and Sam Edmund have started watching football? How much of the careers of Royce Hart, Ian Stewart, Peter Hudson and Alex Jesualenko would they have seen.

Football until the 80's and 90's was usually played on a Saturday Afternoon with most games being played at the same time. You tend to see the players from the one team you barrack for every week and see the opposition players once or twice a year and in finals.

 

[Sir_Loin]

Jack Graham.

Graham.

Jack Graham that is.

 

[Vdubs]

Malthouse would be the only one who would be old enough to have seen 50 years of Football, being in his teens when the period begins but there's likely a bit of senility factor at the other end, while the others probably suffer from groupthink mentality.

Tend to think that people have strong affiliations to players that made the game appealing to them when they first began watching and forming opinions of their own (often teenage years) and its hard to make a retrospective overview that's not weighted with those sentimental memories.

When would people like Jon Ralph and Sam Edmund have started watching football? How much of the careers of Royce Hart, Ian Stewart, Peter Hudson and Alex Jesualenko would they have seen.

Football until the 80's and 90's was usually played on a Saturday Afternoon with most games being played at the same time. You tend to see the players from the one team you barrack for every week and see the opposition players once or twice a year and in finals.

I am early 60's, saw ALL those you mentioned, and any top 25 list over that period minus 2 Abletts (in the top 10) is not arguable, it's a travesty, no matter who you follow.

 

[Vdubs]

I think Doull paid the price of being a defender and not a key position player. Top 5 for me.
Would have Ablett Jnr above his dad. At his best he dominated a footy field in a way his dad didn't in my view. Mathews certainly did and maybe the nearest comparison.

Don't know when you started watching footy, but nobody could dominate a game like GAS. One year, 1993 iirc, the great Wayne Carey awarded GAS with his POTY on a footy show, and commented that there's Gary Ablett, then you've got the rest of us. He regularly amassed > 20 disposals weekly as a FF.
When GAS finally was stationed at FF, he kicked in 3 consecutive years, over 120 goals.
I have seen him kick 14 goals off a wing against Richmond.
I have seen him kick 14 goals against Essendon as a HFF, having 4 opponents including Hirdy, in a losing team. Sheedy said as long as we kick more than Ablett, we'll win.
Thousands of Non Geelong people would flock to the G to watch Ablett's mastery. That never happens now for any player, and in my supporting time (55 years), it's never happened before or since.
GAS was the total package- spectacular mark, 60 m goals off both feet, bumps and tackles that put players in hospital, lightning quick acceleration.
GAJ is a beautiful player to watch, possibly at his best, the best mid we have seen, but he has limitations marking and tackling. And he himself says he is several rungs below his dad.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Simon Madden's a bit high, and Goodes shouldn't even be in there. Silvagni either.

Gary Dempsey criminally underrated again.

 

[Snake_Baker]

1 LEIGH MATTHEWS
2 WAYNE CAREY
3 TONY LOCKETT
4 GARY ABLETT Sr
5 JASON DUNSTALL
6 GARY ABLETT Jr
7 PETER HUDSON
8 SIMON MADDEN
9 KEVIN BARTLETT
10 GREG WILLIAMS
11 CHRIS JUDD
12 MICHAEL VOSS
13 ROYCE HART
14 IAN STEWART
15 JAMES HIRD
16 LANCE FRANKLIN
17 STEPHEN SILVAGNI
18 BRUCE DOULL
19 GLEN JAKOVICH
20 ALEX JESAULENKO
21 MALCOLM BLIGHT
22 SAM MITCHELL
23 ADAM GOODES
24 MATTHEW SCARLETT
25 NATHAN BUCKLEY

Insert from: Dempsey, Kernahan, Pendlebury, Quinlan, Stynes, Wilson, Knights, Glendinning, Dench, Southby, N.Reiwoldt

If there's going to be a full back, It's Dench or Southby and if there's going to be a centre half back it's out of Knights or Glendinning who were both better footballers than Jakovich.

 

[Blind Turn]

Great list.
Heard Tim Watson on SEN and he virtually had your top 5 in order.

Was the SEN thing a discussion on best 5 players seen? Fill me in on the details if you don’t mind.

Reflecting on my list above I have since moved Franklin up into my top 10. I keep an updated list of the top 100 I have seen play here;

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/top-100-players-since-1980.1042878/

 

[Pessimistic]

Don't know when you started watching footy, but nobody could dominate a game like GAS. One year, 1993 iirc, the great Wayne Carey awarded GAS with his POTY on a footy show, and commented that there's Gary Ablett, then you've got the rest of us. He regularly amassed > 20 disposals weekly as a FF.
When GAS finally was stationed at FF, he kicked in 3 consecutive years, over 120 goals.
I have seen him kick 14 goals off a wing against Richmond.
I have seen him kick 14 goals against Essendon as a HFF, having 4 opponents including Hirdy, in a losing team. Sheedy said as long as we kick more than Ablett, we'll win.
Thousands of Non Geelong people would flock to the G to watch Ablett's mastery. That never happens now for any player, and in my supporting time (55 years), it's never happened before or since.
GAS was the total package- spectacular mark, 60 m goals off both feet, bumps and tackles that put players in hospital, lightning quick acceleration.
GAJ is a beautiful player to watch, possibly at his best, the best mid we have seen, but he has limitations marking and tackling. And he himself says he is several rungs below his dad.

That’d be right junior has a fair edge in professionalism

 

[Vdubs]

That’d be right junior has a fair edge in professionalism

and you're not disagreeing of course.
Check these snippets out

 

[Vdubs]

Was the SEN thing a discussion on best 5 players seen? Fill me in on the details if you don’t mind.

Reflecting on my list above I have since moved Franklin up into my top 10. I keep an updated list of the top 100 I have seen play here;

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/top-100-players-since-1980.1042878/

I only got to hear TW's, and was keen to hear how he described GAS.
I think Lyon had Carey as #1, which of course is fair enough.